Time for this Shanahan experiment to be ended.

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Postby Chris Luva Luva » Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:14 am

CanesSkins26 wrote:If 2.5 years isnt enough, how do you explain the Colts' turnaround? Do you really think that they have more talent than the Redskins? A 2-14 team is now 5-3, and they are in year 1 of a switch to a 3-4 and playing better than our D in year 3. And all of this with their head coach away from the team fighting cancer.


They already had a good team, they just needed a good QB. Peyton left they were garbage. They now have another QB and they're decent.

Is it not dead obvious that the QB makes/breaks that team? Is it not obvious that the organization was run effectively prior to the new coach coming in?

Pagano didn't have to clear 100M of badly spent money.
Pagano didn't have to overhaul the bench.
Pagano didn't have to overhaul the starters.
Pagano didn't have build a training facility.
Pagano didn't have money stolen from him by a divisional rival.
Pagano didn't have to hire new personal trainers for the team.
Pagano didn't come into his job without draft picks.

It's not an apples to apples comparison. Neither is the situation in San Francisco. You all don't or simply refuse to acknowledge that this entire organization was completely and totally ****ED. Ignore it all you want, it wont change that it's a fact.

-Joe Gibbs couldn't overcome it. ( u can bring up his playoff appearances but they were flukish. they aren't sustainable, nor consistent. and they barely got in.) Fine, it was great at the moment. But it's nothing to hand ur hat on.
-Zorn couldn't overcome it.
-Spurrier.
-Norv.
-Marty wasn't given a chance.

Get real folks. This isn't a two year deal. It's going to take time. And tearing it all to shreds is just going to give you more of the same.

But just like when The Poster was here, you all don't learn from your mistakes when it's staring u in ur face. You're gluttons for punishment and that's what you got and that's what you'll continue to get. (not directed at anyone in particular)


fetus wrote:Honestly do you really want to rid RG3 of the coaching staff and scheme that he fits into???


Oh yeah they do. And they'll act like they didn't want it 3 years from now. It's idiotic.

Dan is a fan. Dan thinks like they do and thats why the team has sucked under his tenure. It's the EXACT SAME IMPULSIVE, WHINY, TEMPER TANTRUM "GIVE IT TO ME NOW" though processes. He's a fan. They're a fan. They hate him, yet they ARE HIM.
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Postby Redskin in Canada » Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:43 am

Emotional "initiatives" to demand the immediate dismissal of coaches surely work ... :roll:

No movement until the end of the season, please. :wink:
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Postby CanesSkins26 » Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:48 am

The Colts were a good team? They gutted their roster this offseason. They released or lost 15 players, including Manning (obviously), Addai, Gary Brackett, Dallas Clarck, Garçon, Melvin Bullitt, Anthony Gonzalez, and Jeff Saturday. Here is their final 53 man roster from the offseason...

[url]rapidreports/20009421/indianapolis-colts-final-53man-roster[/url]

That roster has less overall talent than ours does and they have suffered some big injuries on defense like we have. Yet in year one, with their coach away from the team, and in the first year of a switch to a 3-4 (which in Redskins land takes at least 3 years to implement apparently) they are farther along in their rebuild than we are. You can make all the excuses that you want (practice bubble, really?), but we should be seeing more tangible results in year 3 than we are currently seeing.
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Postby DarthMonk » Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:52 am

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
DarthMonk wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
DaSkinz Baby wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
DaSkinz Baby wrote:It's pretty sad when Jim Zorn and Steve Spurrier has a better winning percentage then this 2 time SB winning coach


What a stupid post. The comparison ignoring their their objectives of their first teams here and what they inherited is just complete fail.


No the stupidity is the inability to understand that Shanahan is and has been over-rated. If you look at records it would appear the team Shanahan inherited was better than the players he has brought in. 3 years in and the defense is worse then what it was when he came. The only thing we can show as progress is RG3 and Alfred Morris and with the bush league calls Kyle calls RG3 will have brain damage before this year is over and Alfred Morris will be also be ran into the ground like he did Terrell Davis.......


Then make the point with good arguments. Shannahan is trying to build a successful franchise. Comparing that after a couple years to the record of guys who were just trying to win games is a terrible argument.


He said "It's pretty sad ..." Is anyone disputing that?

DarthMonk


Yes, I'm disputing that. I want a coach to teach solid football to a team and instill a never say die attitude. He got a team that needed to be built. Comparing that to two guys who were not ready for prime time over the first two years of their administrations is what's sad. I am happy we have a good coach who's building an organization, there is nothing sad about that at all.


Crap. It is sad his record is worse than those mentioned. It's certainly not happy. Give us all a break.

](*,) :puke:

BTW - What Shanny said after the game is also sad. Very sad.
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Postby Irn-Bru » Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:01 am

CLL wrote:Dan is a fan. Dan thinks like they do and thats why the team has sucked under his tenure. It's the EXACT SAME IMPULSIVE, WHINY, TEMPER TANTRUM "GIVE IT TO ME NOW" though processes. He's a fan. They're a fan. They hate him, yet they ARE HIM.


I think every Redskins fan's nightmare is the idea that they are Dan Snyder. :lol:
Last edited by Irn-Bru on Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Chris Luva Luva » Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:02 am

What Shanny said was taken out of context. However, he left it open to interpretation. And for someone who doesn't have a good relationship with the media, he brought this on himself.
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Postby Redskin in Canada » Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:11 am

Chris Luva Luva wrote:What Shanny said was taken out of context. However, he left it open to interpretation. And for someone who doesn't have a good relationship with the media, he brought this on himself.

Ohhhhh I am not sure he was "misinterpreted". The text is there to be read or the recorded video to be watched and listened to. Not much to misinterpret right there.

But yes, he brought this onto himself. When players and fans "misinterpret", it is a very strange coindcidence. No Chris, he just should have put his foot in his mout and do not let the emotional side take over.

He said: time to evaluate players ... well, automatically, that becomes "let us evaluate players AND ... coaches too.

I am not advocating firing of any coaches now. I do not support any change before the end of the season but he is bringing trouble onto himself that he, the team and the fans do not need right now. :idea:
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Postby SkinsJock » Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:19 am

Chris Luva Luva wrote:What Shanny said was taken out of context. However, he left it open to interpretation.
And for someone who doesn't have a good relationship with the media, he brought this on himself.


+1

Hopefully the stupid owner lets this season play out

A good coach, be it OC, DC or HC finds a way to get the most out of the players he has and that is what is needed here

Mike and Bruce have begun the mending and deserve more time

however .... they all need to do their jobs a lot better - this is not about having the 'talent' to 'get the job done' - this is about both the players and the coaches doing a better job than they've shown here this season

I do not like Belicheat but I respect him for adapting his defense and his offense to the players he has available - that is what Mike needs to demand and get from his DC and OC AND from the players as well

I think the players understand what Mike really mean't by his comments after the game - they will respond

Kyle and Jim need to do a MUCH better job within the realm of their responsibilities as well



as someone else said here - this is not so much about the wins and losses it's about how they win or lose - the players and coaches that put in the effort and drive to succeed will be here to reap the benefits that will come from being on this team with RG3
We are lucky to have Cousins - Griffin will become the better QB as he learns to use the pocket & read defenses

Until then, I hope that Cousins takes full advantage of this opportunity

HAIL


Week 2 - 17-15

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Postby DaSkinz Baby » Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:27 am

CanesSkins26 wrote:
Contrary to the belief of armchair fans like Ray, 2 1/2 year is not long enough to overhaul a roster and build a winning organization when we were as bad as we were. I expect to see progress this year, and I did. I expect to see more progress next year. If at the end of year four we're still 6-10 or so, then yeah, you're getting my attention. But advocating starting over now is just crazy.


If 2.5 years isnt enough, how do you explain the Colts' turnaround? Do you really think that they have more talent than the Redskins? A 2-14 team is now 5-3, and they are in year 1 of a switch to a 3-4 and playing better than our D in year 3. And all of this with their head coach away from the team fighting cancer.


Bingo!! So many "fans" on here take what Shanahan says as Gospel. Sorry every other team can redo a roster in about 2 years. This team wasn't that bad to start with. I see the Colts, Saints, Lions, Falcons to name a few of other teams that had a quick turn around. But yet Daniel Snyder and all the money he has can't do it? BULLNUTS!! Snyder is about Marketing not winning. He brings in past their prime players, over rated players, and now used a "dated" past his prime coach to lure us in. RG3 is a franchise QB and will be destroyed with these fools in charge. Patrick Ramsey was the last franchise QB we had that we destroyed.

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Postby Mursilis » Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:31 am

When the team is losing again next season, what will the excuses for Shanahan be?

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Postby Mississippiskinsfan2 » Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:35 am

[quote="DaSkinz Baby"][quote="CanesSkins26"][quote]Patrick Ramsey wa the last franchise QB we had that we destroyed.[/quoteI

I liked Patrick Ramsey but I don't think he was a franchise QB. Maybe he could have been a good one but not a franchise QB

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Postby DaSkinz Baby » Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:37 am

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
CanesSkins26 wrote:If 2.5 years isnt enough, how do you explain the Colts' turnaround? Do you really think that they have more talent than the Redskins? A 2-14 team is now 5-3, and they are in year 1 of a switch to a 3-4 and playing better than our D in year 3. And all of this with their head coach away from the team fighting cancer.


They already had a good team, they just needed a good QB. Peyton left they were garbage. They now have another QB and they're decent.

Is it not dead obvious that the QB makes/breaks that team? Is it not obvious that the organization was run effectively prior to the new coach coming in?

Pagano didn't have to clear 100M of badly spent money.
Pagano didn't have to overhaul the bench.
Pagano didn't have to overhaul the starters.
Pagano didn't have build a training facility.
Pagano didn't have money stolen from him by a divisional rival.
Pagano didn't have to hire new personal trainers for the team.
Pagano didn't come into his job without draft picks.

It's not an apples to apples comparison. Neither is the situation in San Francisco. You all don't or simply refuse to acknowledge that this entire organization was completely and totally ****ED. Ignore it all you want, it wont change that it's a fact.

-Joe Gibbs couldn't overcome it. ( u can bring up his playoff appearances but they were flukish. they aren't sustainable, nor consistent. and they barely got in.) Fine, it was great at the moment. But it's nothing to hand ur hat on.
-Zorn couldn't overcome it.
-Spurrier.
-Norv.
-Marty wasn't given a chance.

Get real folks. This isn't a two year deal. It's going to take time. And tearing it all to shreds is just going to give you more of the same.

But just like when The Poster was here, you all don't learn from your mistakes when it's staring u in ur face. You're gluttons for punishment and that's what you got and that's what you'll continue to get. (not directed at anyone in particular)


fetus wrote:Honestly do you really want to rid RG3 of the coaching staff and scheme that he fits into???


Oh yeah they do. And they'll act like they didn't want it 3 years from now. It's idiotic.

Dan is a fan. Dan thinks like they do and thats why the team has sucked under his tenure. It's the EXACT SAME IMPULSIVE, WHINY, TEMPER TANTRUM "GIVE IT TO ME NOW" though processes. He's a fan. They're a fan. They hate him, yet they ARE HIM.


Dude sorry but I simply disagree. There have been several teams that didn't have the talent was supposedly had/have that in 2 years tops were playoff teams. The only consistent Mike Shanahan has created since being here is winning game one, but by mid season we go on a 4-6 game losing streak. The injuries constantly suffered here is a direct indication that they aren't doing what they need to do to sustain health. Again this starts from the top and Daniel Snyder is more worried about marketing and making money than building a winner. The final straw was Shanahan pretty much admitting he came back to help his son. Mike has won his 2 superbowls and Elway and Davis pretty much assure him a bust in Canton oneday. All that is left for him is to pillage a foolish owner, case in point Daniel Snyder to the tune of 35 million and get your son some experience and know how and ride off into the sunset after his 5th year. Shanahan and his whole coaching staff should be removed ASAP and let's not even go into him giving of all people Jim Haslett an extension this past summer? As Defensive Coordinator he wasn't even smart enough to get Carlos Rogers eye's checked......But he brings is Hall and Wilson as starting CB's and they have been burned like a cheap cigar consistently. This whole coaching staff the owner and many fans REEK.....seriously....

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Postby KazooSkinsFan » Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:45 am

CanesSkins26 wrote:
Contrary to the belief of armchair fans like Ray, 2 1/2 year is not long enough to overhaul a roster and build a winning organization when we were as bad as we were. I expect to see progress this year, and I did. I expect to see more progress next year. If at the end of year four we're still 6-10 or so, then yeah, you're getting my attention. But advocating starting over now is just crazy.


If 2.5 years isnt enough, how do you explain the Colts' turnaround? Do you really think that they have more talent than the Redskins? A 2-14 team is now 5-3, and they are in year 1 of a switch to a 3-4 and playing better than our D in year 3. And all of this with their head coach away from the team fighting cancer.


I always love the "Tom Brady" argument. I actually don't need to "explain" anyone who turned around in less than 2.5 years to argue that it's not normal. There are 32 teams, many of them bad and most of them stay that way more than 2.5 years. And you didn't even support the Colts were as bad as all around bad as our Jim Zorn team was, you just pointed to a one year record.
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Postby KazooSkinsFan » Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:49 am

CanesSkins26 wrote:The Colts were a good team? They gutted their roster this offseason. They released or lost 15 players, including Manning (obviously), Addai, Gary Brackett, Dallas Clarck, Garçon, Melvin Bullitt, Anthony Gonzalez, and Jeff Saturday. Here is their final 53 man roster from the offseason...

[url]rapidreports/20009421/indianapolis-colts-final-53man-roster[/url]

That roster has less overall talent than ours does and they have suffered some big injuries on defense like we have. Yet in year one, with their coach away from the team, and in the first year of a switch to a 3-4 (which in Redskins land takes at least 3 years to implement apparently) they are farther along in their rebuild than we are. You can make all the excuses that you want (practice bubble, really?), but we should be seeing more tangible results in year 3 than we are currently seeing.


You identified one team that turned around in less then 2.5 years, therefore we should fire Shannahan. Wow, you convinced me.
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Postby Mississippiskinsfan2 » Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:49 am

Irn-Bru wrote:
CLL wrote:Dan is a fan. Dan thinks like they do and thats why the team has sucked under his tenure. It's the EXACT SAME IMPULSIVE, WHINY, TEMPER TANTRUM "GIVE IT TO ME NOW" though processes. He's a fan. They're a fan. They hate him, yet they ARE HIM.


I think every Redskins fan's nightmare is the idea that they are Dan Snyder. :lol:


Most of the stuff I'm reading the last few days on here reminds me of the poster post. How can you hate on someone's post then turn arond and post the some stuff. :?

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