Time for this Shanahan experiment to be ended.

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Postby skinsfan#33 » Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:55 pm

por-tiz2skins wrote:-Get the 4-3 back


Brilliant!

Now that we are built much more like a 3-4 team you want to switch back to a 4-3.

Just genius!

No, we simply need a good DC! Haslett has never been a good DC and never will be. And that DC needs better players in the secondary!

Sure Has would look like a competent DC if we had Orakpo, Carriker, Neild, and NFL starting caliber safeties (better corners wouldn't hurt either), but even of he had all of those players the D would still under perform. Haslett is a boob and this team needs a mastectomy.
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Postby por-tiz2skins » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:14 pm

skinsfan#33 wrote:
por-tiz2skins wrote:-Get the 4-3 back


Brilliant!

Now that we are built much more like a 3-4 team you want to switch back to a 4-3.

Just genius!

No, we simply need a good DC! Haslett has never been a good DC and never will be. And that DC needs better players in the secondary!

Sure Has would look like a competent DC if we had Orakpo, Carriker, Neild, and NFL starting caliber safeties (better corners wouldn't hurt either), but even of he had all of those players the D would still under perform. Haslett is a boob and this team needs a mastectomy.



In his defense he didnt want to scheme a 3-4 it was Shanny who forced him and I disagree we suck on D not only of Jim but we dont have 3-4 players look at every defensive player resume .


-Orakpo RE in college and Phillip Daniels said he is too.

-Kerrigan LE in college

-Barry Cofield was a 4-3 DT his whole career and is too small for it at NT

-London 4-3 MLB his whole career

-Lorenzo Alexander DE/DT in 4-3 with us

-Chris Wilson 4-3 DE

The whole secondary was in the 4-3 too

-Kendric 4-3 DT

-ROb Jackson 4-3 DE

-Jenkins 4-3 DT in college

all of them are 4-3 Experienced I mean even Goff who we picked up this year is a MLB too.

We can go 4-3 and transaction very good even in 010 we had a couple 4-3 players we never got real 3-4 players at all. Carriker-Bowen-Riley are 3 players only that has 3-4 experince but Carriker was in the 4-3 too but plays better as a 3-4 DE.


I think we will go 4-3 for sure but if shanny stays we will stay 3-4 and we have some canidates like Romeo-Rex Ryan-Manginni- and maybe ND 3-4 DC.

IMO Shannys fire.


Update for you guys :)



Quote:

ource: Snyder made Shanahan backtrack/spin from his "evaluation" comments.. That explains the awkward Monday presser where Dan was mentioned A lot

---------- Post added November-13th-2012 at 06:09 PM ----------

Jesus Christ...this too

#Redskins executive on Shanahan " He is a joke at this point... A real expensive joke"

---------- Post added November-13th-2012 at 06:11 PM ----------

For those that don't know him, LL posts on here regularly and is usually spot on.

There is even more on here on his account. Damn...**** is going down https://twitter.com/HTTR24_7





IPOD interview about whats going on in Ausburn:

http://httr24-7.com/?p=3435&utm_source= ... um=twitter



^^^ Can listen to interview : What it talks about.


- People around the organization thinks Shanny is a bafoon and a overpriced idiot.

-Sowlik is trying to prevent Raheem the DC and some people inside the organization on defensive staff dont want him as the DC.

-Kyle Shanahan will likely not come back-

-We midiognized Garcon and made his injury much worst and are forcing him to come back and play to try and win some to save Shannys job.

-Coaches are arguing more than gameplanning are are not getting along at all.

-Danny forced Shanny to backtrack what he said and made it seem more positive :.
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Postby Deadskins » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:48 am

por-tiz2skins wrote:London 4-3 MLB his whole career

Not the last 3 seasons of it. :wink:
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Postby Kilmer72 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:27 am

Not that I am any expert but I agree. Problem is we do not have the pieces and London bridge is falling down. They never should have done what they did. It is all history now but think about it. Now we need a secondary including getting rid of Hall and replacing London and the rest of the linebackers too. Secondary is crap. Think about how scary we could be on the line with what we have if we did go back to the 43. To late this year, and next year we wont change either. We are just stuck. Nothing to do now but play our hand. At the 34 we will always be in the disadvantage.

Last year wasn't too bad but we still got schooled. We do not have the pieces and we are far from it. NO Saints in their Superbowl run proved that you do not need a 34 to get TO. One day this will all get straighten out.

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Postby SkinsJock » Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:49 am

We're NOT switching to the 4-3 - it seems obvious that Mike thinks that's the base defense he prefers ....
:shock: where's the logic that he's suddenly going to change after the last 3 off seasons of preparation and acquisitions


I do think that we'll see changes AFTER this season but... if Mike is still HC I doubt that we're going 4-3


I have as many issues with the bad defensive play and play calling as anyone but it isn't ALL due to Jim or the 3-4


AND

I think that Mike's right - the 3-4 defense is better suited to 'today's NFL offenses' :twisted:
RG3 is now learning how to play QB in the NFL - Mike & Kyle did not help with the transition

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Postby Deadskins » Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:50 am

Kilmer72 wrote:Now we need a secondary including getting rid of Hall and replacing London and the rest of the linebackers too.

Among the LBs, only London needs replacing, and we would have the same secondary issues if we were playing a 4-3. 4-3 and 3-4 refers to the front seven; the DBs duties remain the same.
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Postby skinsfan#33 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:07 am

por-tiz2skins wrote:
-Orakpo RE in college and Phillip Daniels said he is too.

-Kerrigan LE in college

-Barry Cofield was a 4-3 DT his whole career and is too small for it at NT

-London 4-3 MLB his whole career

-Lorenzo Alexander DE/DT in 4-3 with us

-Chris Wilson 4-3 DE

The whole secondary was in the 4-3 too

-Kendric 4-3 DT

-ROb Jackson 4-3 DE

-Jenkins 4-3 DT in college

You have "in college" a lot describing some of the players. That is all good if we are going to start playing SEC teams, but we play on the NFL.

Orakpo and Kerrigan were only drafted in the first round with the intent to play OLB in a 3-4 system. If they weren't drafted by a 3-4 team they wouldn't have gone in the first round. They are "tweeners" that are too small to play DE in the NFL and too big to play SAM or Will, they DON'T FIT A 4-3 system but are perfect for OLB in a 3-4 system.

Since they are our two best players on defense and they don't fit a 4-3 we can't afford to switch to back to a 3-4 unless we phan on trading those two players to a 3-4 team.

The rest of the players could probably play rolls in a 4-3 but players like Rob Jackson would have to transition to SAM or just 3rd down pass rusher.

Besides our base defense is a 3-4, but we play 4-3, 2-5- and 5-2 from time to time. Orakpo and Kerrigan could be used as 3rd down pass rushers, but that would mean taking them off the field on 1st and 2nd down or risk getting them worn out, but if you really knew enough about football you would already know that.
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Postby skinsfan#33 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:08 am

por-tiz2skins wrote:
-Orakpo RE in college and Phillip Daniels said he is too.

-Kerrigan LE in college

-Barry Cofield was a 4-3 DT his whole career and is too small for it at NT

-London 4-3 MLB his whole career

-Lorenzo Alexander DE/DT in 4-3 with us

-Chris Wilson 4-3 DE

The whole secondary was in the 4-3 too

-Kendric 4-3 DT

-ROb Jackson 4-3 DE

-Jenkins 4-3 DT in college

You have "in college" a lot describing some of the players. That is all good if we are going to start playing SEC teams, but we play on the NFL.

Orakpo and Kerrigan were only drafted in the first round with the intent to play OLB in a 3-4 system. If they weren't drafted by a 3-4 team they wouldn't have gone in the first round. They are "tweeners" that are too small to play DE in the NFL and too big to play SAM or Will, they DON'T FIT A 4-3 system but are perfect for OLB in a 3-4 system.

Since they are our two best players on defense and they don't fit a 4-3 we can't afford to switch to back to a 3-4 unless we phan on trading those two players to a 3-4 team.

The rest of the players could probably play rolls in a 4-3 but players like Rob Jackson would have to transition to SAM or just 3rd down pass rusher.

Besides our base defense is a 3-4, but we play 4-3, 2-5- and 5-2 from time to time. Orakpo and Kerrigan could be used as 3rd down pass rushers, but that would mean taking them off the field on 1st and 2nd down or risk getting them worn out, but if you really knew enough about football you would already know that.
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain"
(It is time to roll the dice) Tai'shar Manetheren

"Duty is heavier than a Mountain, Death is lighter than a feather" Tai'shar Malkier

RIP James Oliver Rigney, Jr. 1948-2007

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Postby Chris Luva Luva » Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:11 am

SHOTS FIRED!!!!
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Postby Kilmer72 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:00 pm

skinsfan#33 wrote:
por-tiz2skins wrote:
-Orakpo RE in college and Phillip Daniels said he is too.

-Kerrigan LE in college

-Barry Cofield was a 4-3 DT his whole career and is too small for it at NT

-London 4-3 MLB his whole career

-Lorenzo Alexander DE/DT in 4-3 with us

-Chris Wilson 4-3 DE

The whole secondary was in the 4-3 too

-Kendric 4-3 DT

-ROb Jackson 4-3 DE

-Jenkins 4-3 DT in college

You have "in college" a lot describing some of the players. That is all good if we are going to start playing SEC teams, but we play on the NFL.

Orakpo and Kerrigan were only drafted in the first round with the intent to play OLB in a 3-4 system. If they weren't drafted by a 3-4 team they wouldn't have gone in the first round. They are "tweeners" that are too small to play DE in the NFL and too big to play SAM or Will, they DON'T FIT A 4-3 system but are perfect for OLB in a 3-4 system.

Since they are our two best players on defense and they don't fit a 4-3 we can't afford to switch to back to a 3-4 unless we phan on trading those two players to a 3-4 team.

The rest of the players could probably play rolls in a 4-3 but players like Rob Jackson would have to transition to SAM or just 3rd down pass rusher.

Besides our base defense is a 3-4, but we play 4-3, 2-5- and 5-2 from time to time. Orakpo and Kerrigan could be used as 3rd down pass rushers, but that would mean taking them off the field on 1st and 2nd down or risk getting them worn out, but if you really knew enough about football you would already know that.


Brian was drafted as a defensive end for the Redskins and made probowl alternate in his first year. Andre Carter was a tweener also. I know Mike isn't going to convert. These line backers as in Kerrigan and Orakpo aren't all that good at covering and in a 3 point stance could do some damage. It wont happen I know. Just saying.

Now Kerigan was drafted as a linebacker. I get it. Imagine the pressure we could get if they were in their natural positions.

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Postby Kilmer72 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:14 pm

SkinsJock wrote:We're NOT switching to the 4-3 - it seems obvious that Mike thinks that's the base defense he prefers ....
:shock: where's the logic that he's suddenly going to change after the last 3 off seasons of preparation and acquisitions


I do think that we'll see changes AFTER this season but... if Mike is still HC I doubt that we're going 4-3


I have as many issues with the bad defensive play and play calling as anyone but it isn't ALL due to Jim or the 3-4


AND

I think that Mike's right - the 3-4 defense is better suited to 'today's NFL offenses' :twisted:



I never said Mike was going to switch to the 43. I alluded after Mike is gone. If he is ever gone. I hope everything works out. I just see more short comings than just the secondary.

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Postby SkinsJock » Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:34 pm

Kilmer72 wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:We're NOT switching to the 4-3 - it seems obvious that Mike thinks that's the base defense he prefers ....
:shock: where's the logic that he's suddenly going to change after the last 3 off seasons of preparation and acquisitions
I do think that we'll see changes AFTER this season but... if Mike is still HC I doubt that we're going 4-3
I have as many issues with the bad defensive play and play calling as anyone but it isn't ALL due to Jim or the 3-4
AND
I think that Mike's right - the 3-4 defense is better suited to 'today's NFL offenses'



I never said Mike was going to switch to the 4-3. I alluded to after Mike is gone. If he is ever gone. I hope everything works out. I just see more short comings than just the secondary.


Mike is most likely still here next season - what is your point?

1 - the defensive issues are NOT because we're running the 3-4

2 - the most effective base defense for todays NFL offenses is the 3-4 AND variations from that

3 - we have spent 3 drafts and adding players that are most suited to a base 3-4 defense

whether Mike is here or not does not get away from the issues with the secondary which are made more glaring by the front 7 not getting pressure

whether you have a 3-4 OR a 4-3 base defense - IF THE FRONT 7 ARE NOT ABLE TO PRESSURE THE QB - you have a nightmare
RG3 is now learning how to play QB in the NFL - Mike & Kyle did not help with the transition

Jay & Sean are going to make it happen ... "He has the ability and the desire, he just has to do it.” - J Gruden

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Postby Kilmer72 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:06 pm

I need to learn to be more precise. If in the near future, Mike is no longer here, a new regime may come in and think....Well you know, we can get more out of these guys if we used them to their expertise. Another words, if this happens which I hope it doesn't (because I want to succeed) someone might actually use some of our personnel at what they have most experience in doing.

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Postby SkinsJock » Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:20 am

Kilmer72 wrote:I need to learn to be more precise. If in the near future, Mike is no longer here, a new regime may come in and think....Well you know, we can get more out of these guys if we used them to their expertise. Another words, if this happens which I hope it doesn't (because I want to succeed) someone might actually use some of our personnel at what they have most experience in doing.


no worries - I understand what you're getting at

two things ...

1 ... Mike came in determined to have a 3-4 defense AND that's the main reason Haslett was brought in - we've tried to add players that suit that

2 ... IMO Jim Haslett is out of here at the end of this season for not getting more out of his players and for not being a good DC

IMO - the defensive issues are not all because of Haslett but in the NFL you are gone when your in charge and things don't work

no matter who comes in as DC, they are going to have to do a better job with the players and the defense that the HC wants

I REALLY doubt that IF there is a new HC he will make the same mistake as Mike did & try to get players to do what they are not suited to
RG3 is now learning how to play QB in the NFL - Mike & Kyle did not help with the transition

Jay & Sean are going to make it happen ... "He has the ability and the desire, he just has to do it.” - J Gruden

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Postby skinsfan#33 » Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:13 am

Kilmer72 wrote:
skinsfan#33 wrote:
por-tiz2skins wrote:
-Orakpo RE in college and Phillip Daniels said he is too.

-Kerrigan LE in college

-Barry Cofield was a 4-3 DT his whole career and is too small for it at NT

-London 4-3 MLB his whole career

-Lorenzo Alexander DE/DT in 4-3 with us

-Chris Wilson 4-3 DE

The whole secondary was in the 4-3 too

-Kendric 4-3 DT

-ROb Jackson 4-3 DE

-Jenkins 4-3 DT in college

You have "in college" a lot describing some of the players. That is all good if we are going to start playing SEC teams, but we play on the NFL.

Orakpo and Kerrigan were only drafted in the first round with the intent to play OLB in a 3-4 system. If they weren't drafted by a 3-4 team they wouldn't have gone in the first round. They are "tweeners" that are too small to play DE in the NFL and too big to play SAM or Will, they DON'T FIT A 4-3 system but are perfect for OLB in a 3-4 system.

Since they are our two best players on defense and they don't fit a 4-3 we can't afford to switch to back to a 3-4 unless we phan on trading those two players to a 3-4 team.

The rest of the players could probably play rolls in a 4-3 but players like Rob Jackson would have to transition to SAM or just 3rd down pass rusher.

Besides our base defense is a 3-4, but we play 4-3, 2-5- and 5-2 from time to time. Orakpo and Kerrigan could be used as 3rd down pass rushers, but that would mean taking them off the field on 1st and 2nd down or risk getting them worn out, but if you really knew enough about football you would already know that.


Brian was drafted as a defensive end for the Redskins and made probowl alternate in his first year. Andre Carter was a tweener also. I know Mike isn't going to convert. These line backers as in Kerrigan and Orakpo aren't all that good at covering and in a 3 point stance could do some damage. It wont happen I know. Just saying.

Now Kerigan was drafted as a linebacker. I get it. Imagine the pressure we could get if they were in their natural positions.

You're wrong about Orakpo. He was drafted as a LB/DE fire the Skins. He was listed a such on their roster and played only on the LOS in posible passing downs and played off of it in running situation. He was drafted to essentially be a 3-4 OLB even though we had a base 4-3 D.
Carter was a 4-3 DE and played well as a DE. He played two seasons as a LB (his last year in San Fran and his one year under Shanny) and those were his worst two years of years of his career. He is also bigger than Kerrigan and Orakpo. When he was with the Skins he was usually around 275 (with amost no fat), while Kerrigan is around 260 and Orakpo is more like 255.

Orakpo is just too small to play every down as a 4-3 and would be a situational pass rusher DE, but ultimately would have to be a SAM. This would be similar to how Lavar was used under Marvin Lewis or how we used Ken Harvey. Or exactly how he is bring used now.

Kerrigan might be able to make the switch to DE by putting on some weight, but he is much better fit as an OLB.
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain"
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"Duty is heavier than a Mountain, Death is lighter than a feather" Tai'shar Malkier

RIP James Oliver Rigney, Jr. 1948-2007

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