Brandon Banks - The Wide Receiver

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Postby SkinsJock » Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:00 pm

Deadskins wrote:SJ, you won't have to worry past this season; Goodell is going to do away with kickoffs altogether. :roll:


thanks mate - but ... do you really think that will happen?

I kind of understand the thinking, but ... kickoffs are a part of the game, no?
Getting our QB back will help a lot but we still have a lot of issues to address

Players and coaches need to believe that they can be successful - they are not playing with that attitude - big changes are coming

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Postby Countertrey » Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:21 pm

SkinsJock wrote:
Deadskins wrote:SJ, you won't have to worry past this season; Goodell is going to do away with kickoffs altogether. :roll:


thanks mate - but ... do you really think that will happen?

I kind of understand the thinking, but ... kickoffs are a part of the game, no?
... so was the bump and run... clothes line tackling... and other peasant brutishness.... once. Things change... not always for the better.
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Postby skinsfan#33 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:08 am

[quote="Countertrey"][quote="SkinsJock"][quote="Deadskins"]SJ, you won't have to worry past this season; Goodell is going to do away with kickoffs altogether. :roll:[/quote]

thanks mate - but ... do you really think that will happen?

I kind of understand the thinking, but ... kickoffs are a part of the game, no?[/quote]... so was the bump and run... clothes line tackling... and other peasant brutishness.... once. Things change... not always for the better.[/quote]
Bump and run is still legal (in the first give yards) but regardless that and the other things you mentioned are techniques used in a play, not the an entire play (the most exciting play in football).

The NFL is screwing around with an extremely exciting part of the game and they are taking away a part of the game that is a major part of what draws people to the game and for what? They say it its to protect the players but NO ONE has provided any stats that shows that the KO is a much more injury prone play than any other play. And I'm sure that is because it is not statistically coherent than any other play.

Why not eliminate punt returns too? Because it would be retarded (just like eliminating the KO).

If the KO was statistically more dangerous than other plays the NFL woulda have the stats out thee for all to see. Since they don't, I think it is safe to say that those stats don't support eliminating the play and this is all a big dog and pony show by the NFL to make it look like they are trying to improve player safety.
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Postby DaSkinz Baby » Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:02 pm

Well I think it's a foregone conclusion that Banks is pretty much a goner............Bye Brandon sorry you didn't last longer.......Should have kept the north and south mentality and stopped trying to be Randal El.....

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Postby Countertrey » Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:53 pm

skinsfan#33 wrote:
Countertrey wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:
Deadskins wrote:SJ, you won't have to worry past this season; Goodell is going to do away with kickoffs altogether. :roll:


thanks mate - but ... do you really think that will happen?

I kind of understand the thinking, but ... kickoffs are a part of the game, no?
... so was the bump and run... clothes line tackling... and other peasant brutishness.... once. Things change... not always for the better.

Bump and run is still legal (in the first give yards).
ummm... that is NOT bump and run. Spend some time watching Pat Fischer, and Roger Wehrle, then revisit this statement.

but regardless that and the other things you mentioned are techniques used in a play, not the an entire play (the most exciting play in football).

The NFL is screwing around with an extremely exciting part of the game and they are taking away a part of the game that is a major part of what draws people to the game and for what? They say it its to protect the players but NO ONE has provided any stats that shows that the KO is a much more injury prone play than any other play. And I'm sure that is because it is not statistically coherent than any other play.

Why not eliminate punt returns too? Because it would be retarded (just like eliminating the KO).

If the KO was statistically more dangerous than other plays the NFL woulda have the stats out thee for all to see. Since they don't, I think it is safe to say that those stats don't support eliminating the play and this is all a big dog and pony show by the NFL to make it look like they are trying to improve player safety.
Yup... pretty much agree with everything else.
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Postby markshark84 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:57 pm

SkinsJock wrote:
Deadskins wrote:SJ, you won't have to worry past this season; Goodell is going to do away with kickoffs altogether. :roll:


thanks mate - but ... do you really think that will happen?

I kind of understand the thinking, but ... kickoffs are a part of the game, no?


I personally think that the "proposed" changes (e.g., eliminating kickoffs) to the game by the commissioner are a response/retailiation to the ensuing lawsuits against the league by former players.

Ultimately the NFL is attempting to take away any potential liability by at least putting on paper that all decisions they make are being made in the best interest of the players.

To a degree I understand it. The NFL is in a difficult spot. Previous NFL players are suing the league for injuries other players gave them because the league didn't implement policies to prevent the "violent" nature of the game. Now, the league has adjusted the rules, increased awareness, and mandated the refs to call penalties on violent plays as a way to limit their occurences; however, the current players still try to knock players out and win games. Regardless of player action --- the NFL is left holding the bag.

That said, I don't see how they could get rid of kickoffs. They could move it up even further, but not get rid of them completely. They are such a huge part of the game.
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Postby SkinsFreak » Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:02 pm

markshark84 wrote:That said, I don't see how they could get rid of kickoffs. They could move it up even further, but not get rid of them completely. They are such a huge part of the game.


Agreed. Eliminating kickoffs altogether would also eliminate onside kicks. Onside kicks can be a huge aspect of the game. Not just at the end of games when teams are behind and need another possession to even the score or win the game, onside kickoffs can also be used strategically in certain circumstances when opponents aren't expecting it. For example, like when the Saints successfully recovered a surprise onside kick to open the 2nd half of Super Bowl XLIV against the Colts.

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Postby SkinsJock » Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:16 pm

I do not think they should eliminate kickoffs but trying to make a point for onside kicks is not doing much for me

If they don't exist the game will still be fine
Getting our QB back will help a lot but we still have a lot of issues to address

Players and coaches need to believe that they can be successful - they are not playing with that attitude - big changes are coming

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Postby riggofan » Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:23 pm

SkinsFreak wrote:
markshark84 wrote:That said, I don't see how they could get rid of kickoffs. They could move it up even further, but not get rid of them completely. They are such a huge part of the game.


Agreed. Eliminating kickoffs altogether would also eliminate onside kicks. Onside kicks can be a huge aspect of the game. Not just at the end of games when teams are behind and need another possession to even the score or win the game, onside kickoffs can also be used strategically in certain circumstances when opponents aren't expecting it. For example, like when the Saints successfully recovered a surprise onside kick to open the 2nd half of Super Bowl XLIV against the Colts.


True, but the proposal that they're talking about is actually kind of better than onside kicks. Instead of kicking off after a score, a team gets the ball at their own 30 yard line facing 4th and 15. They can either punt it away or go for it. The end of games could be pretty exciting in that scenario. Seems like teams would have a much better chance of converting a 4th and 15 than recovering an onside kick. If you think about it, a really GOOD offense could have a real chance of scoring twice in the final minute or two.

Punts end up replacing kickoffs, so its not like a team can't return one for a quick score.

Its hard to imagine the game without kickoffs, but Schiano's proposal is interesting and worth checking out. Since the ultimate goal is to improve player safety, suggestions like these deserve honest consideration.

Like Schiano points out, there used to be no forward passes in football too. Nothing says the game can't evolve.

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Postby SkinsFreak » Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:36 pm

riggofan wrote:
SkinsFreak wrote:
markshark84 wrote:That said, I don't see how they could get rid of kickoffs. They could move it up even further, but not get rid of them completely. They are such a huge part of the game.


Agreed. Eliminating kickoffs altogether would also eliminate onside kicks. Onside kicks can be a huge aspect of the game. Not just at the end of games when teams are behind and need another possession to even the score or win the game, onside kickoffs can also be used strategically in certain circumstances when opponents aren't expecting it. For example, like when the Saints successfully recovered a surprise onside kick to open the 2nd half of Super Bowl XLIV against the Colts.


True, but the proposal that they're talking about is actually kind of better than onside kicks. Instead of kicking off after a score, a team gets the ball at their own 30 yard line facing 4th and 15. They can either punt it away or go for it.


Good point, and I agree it could make the end of games exciting. Except, of course, when the Skins are playing with the lead late in the game and your opponent has an easier chance with a 4th and 15 to potentially win the game. Then that rule would suck... lol. The new rule would, however, eliminate the "surprise" attempt to gain possession at the beginning of games or at the start of the 3rd quarter after halftime. I know it's rarely used, but still exciting nonetheless.

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Postby Deadskins » Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:32 pm

SkinsFreak wrote:Eliminating kickoffs altogether would also eliminate onside kicks.

No they wouldn't. The proposal it that a team starts with the ball at there own 30 in a 4th and 10 or 4th and 15 situation. Typically they would punt, but they have the option of going for a first down.
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Postby DarthMonk » Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:38 pm

From the beginning to the merger plus one biggie in 1994:

History of NFL Rules
1869
Rutgers and Princeton played a college soccer football game, the first ever, November 6. The game used modified London Football Association rules. During the next seven years, rugby gained favor with the major eastern schools over soccer, and modern football began to develop from rugby.
1876
At the Massasoit convention, the first rules for American football were written. Walter Camp, who would become known as the father of American football, first became involved with the game.

1898
A touchdown was changed from four points to five.

1904
A field goal was changed from five points to four.

1906
The forward pass was legalized. The first authenticated pass completion in a pro game came on October 27, when George (Peggy) Parratt of Massillon threw a completion to Dan (Bullet) Riley in a victory over a combined Benwood-Moundsville team.


1909
A field goal dropped from four points to three.

1912
A touchdown was increased from five points to six.

1922
NFL comes into existence.


1933
The NFL, which long had followed the rules of college football, made a number of significant changes from the college game for the first time and began to develop rules serving its needs and the style of play it preferred. The innovations from the 1932 championship game-inbounds line or hashmarks and goal posts on the goal lines-were adopted. Also the forward pass was legalized from anywhere behind the line of scrimmage.

1941
The league by-laws were revised to provide for playoffs in case there were ties in division races, and sudden-death overtimes in case a playoff game was tied after four quarters. An official NFL Record Manual was published for the first time.

1945
The inbounds lines or hashmarks were moved from 15 yards away from the sidelines to nearer the center of the field-20 yards from the sidelines.

1946
Free substitution was withdrawn and substitutions were limited to no more than three men at a time. Forward passes were made automatically incomplete upon striking the goal posts.

1948
Plastic helmets were prohibited. A flexible artificial tee was permitted at the kickoff.

1949
Free substitution was adopted for one year.

1950
Unlimited free substitution was restored, opening the way for the era of two platoons and specialization in pro football.

1951
The Pro Bowl game, dormant since 1942, was revived under a new format matching the all-stars of each conference at the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum. The American Conference defeated the National Conference 28-27, January 14. A rule was passed that no tackle, guard, or center would be eligible to catch a forward pass.

1955
The sudden-death overtime rule was used for the first time in a pre-season game between the Rams and Giants at Portland, Oregon, August 28. The Rams won 23-17 three minutes into overtime.

A rule change declared the ball dead immediately if the ball carrier touched the ground with any part of his body except his hands or feet while in the grasp of an opponent.

1956
Grabbing an opponent's facemask (other than the ball carrier) was made illegal.
Using radio receivers to communicate with players on the field was prohibited.
A natural leather ball with white end stripes replaced the white ball with black stripes for night games.

1960
The AFL adopted the two-point option on points after touchdown.

1962
Both leagues [NFL & AFL] prohibited grabbing any player's facemask. The AFL voted to make the scoreboard clock the official timer of the game.

1966
Goal posts offset from the goal line, painted bright yellow, and with uprights 20 feet above the cross-bar were made standard in the NFL.

1967
The "sling-shot" goal post and a six-foot-wide border around the field were made standard in the NFL.

1994
There is now a 2 point conversion following touchdowns (teams now have the option of passing or running for two points or kicking for one after a TD)


Just think of where we would be without this last rule change. Not here:

Image

I'd call the kickoff fundamental. The reason the game is called football is because the ball is kicked ... with the foot.

DON'T ELIMINATE KICKOFFS.
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Postby DaveD1420 » Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:33 am

I think the name origin is more than that. That said, whenever my soccer friends say that it should be called something other than football, I tell them that the primary way of moving the ball is running with it (even in modern times with passing)...by using one's FEET. Also, the ball is approx. a foot long: foot-ball. haha

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Postby skinsfan#33 » Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:00 pm

Countertrey wrote:
skinsfan#33 wrote:
Countertrey wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:
Deadskins wrote:SJ, you won't have to worry past this season; Goodell is going to do away with kickoffs altogether. :roll:


thanks mate - but ... do you really think that will happen?

I kind of understand the thinking, but ... kickoffs are a part of the game, no?
... so was the bump and run... clothes line tackling... and other peasant brutishness.... once. Things change... not always for the better.

Bump and run is still legal (in the first give yards).
ummm... that is NOT bump and run. Spend some time watching Pat Fischer, and Roger Wehrle, then revisit this statement.

but regardless that and the other things you mentioned are techniques used in a play, not the an entire play (the most exciting play in football).

The NFL is screwing around with an extremely exciting part of the game and they are taking away a part of the game that is a major part of what draws people to the game and for what? They say it its to protect the players but NO ONE has provided any stats that shows that the KO is a much more injury prone play than any other play. And I'm sure that is because it is not statistically coherent than any other play.

Why not eliminate punt returns too? Because it would be retarded (just like eliminating the KO).

If the KO was statistically more dangerous than other plays the NFL woulda have the stats out thee for all to see. Since they don't, I think it is safe to say that those stats don't support eliminating the play and this is all a big dog and pony show by the NFL to make it look like they are trying to improve player safety.
Yup... pretty much agree with everything else.

The bump and ruin comment was meant to be a little tongue and cheek. The leg whip is the play that corners today would kill for!
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain"
(It is time to roll the dice) Tai'shar Manetheren

"Duty is heavier than a Mountain, Death is lighter than a feather" Tai'shar Malkier

RIP James Oliver Rigney, Jr. 1948-2007

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Postby skinsfan#33 » Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:01 pm

Countertrey wrote:
skinsfan#33 wrote:
Countertrey wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:
Deadskins wrote:SJ, you won't have to worry past this season; Goodell is going to do away with kickoffs altogether. :roll:


thanks mate - but ... do you really think that will happen?

I kind of understand the thinking, but ... kickoffs are a part of the game, no?
... so was the bump and run... clothes line tackling... and other peasant brutishness.... once. Things change... not always for the better.

Bump and run is still legal (in the first give yards).
ummm... that is NOT bump and run. Spend some time watching Pat Fischer, and Roger Wehrle, then revisit this statement.

but regardless that and the other things you mentioned are techniques used in a play, not the an entire play (the most exciting play in football).

The NFL is screwing around with an extremely exciting part of the game and they are taking away a part of the game that is a major part of what draws people to the game and for what? They say it its to protect the players but NO ONE has provided any stats that shows that the KO is a much more injury prone play than any other play. And I'm sure that is because it is not statistically coherent than any other play.

Why not eliminate punt returns too? Because it would be retarded (just like eliminating the KO).

If the KO was statistically more dangerous than other plays the NFL woulda have the stats out thee for all to see. Since they don't, I think it is safe to say that those stats don't support eliminating the play and this is all a big dog and pony show by the NFL to make it look like they are trying to improve player safety.
Yup... pretty much agree with everything else.

The bump and ruin comment was meant to be a little tongue and cheek. The leg whip is the play that corners today would kill for!
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain"
(It is time to roll the dice) Tai'shar Manetheren

"Duty is heavier than a Mountain, Death is lighter than a feather" Tai'shar Malkier

RIP James Oliver Rigney, Jr. 1948-2007

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