Should Cousins start vs Philly?

Talk about the Washington Redskins here. Do you bleed burgundy and gold?
Hog
User avatar
Posts: 1776
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:44 am
Location: Houston, TX

Postby markshark84 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:01 pm

StorminMormon86 wrote:I like Cousins...a lot...but RGIII is going to start if he's cleared. No questions asked. I can't fathom why people are talking about using Cousins as trade fodder. You do realize that it's a very real possibility that Griffin won't stay healthy for all 16 games in a season?


I would like to keep him, but what is his contract situation like?

Once his contracts ends, KC is gone because he knows he can get a starting job on another team.

As such, we need to make sure we can get the most trade value from him. It may be at the end of this year or next, but we'll need to capitalize on it. Personally, I would like to keep him for as long as we can before trading him, but we have to get something from him and not just lose him to free agency when his contract expires.

And anyone who thinks KC will re-sign as a free agent to back up RGIII is crazy. The kid is a competitor --- he will want to start if an opportunity presents itself. He just needs to make sure he puts himself in a good position and not sign with a team that doesn't put him in a position to succeed.
RIP Sean Taylor. You will be missed.

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 2043
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:36 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Postby emoses14 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:01 pm

skinz1982 wrote:
emoses14 wrote:
skinz1982 wrote:Cousins should start, this is a bad Philly team. Give RG3 another week to heal completely. KC just proved he can beat a decent defense on the road by 17 points. Could have won by more but Shanahan showed mercy on the Browns.

KC is the better pocket passer, anyway, and this is a passing league. What makes RG3 so dangerous is his dual threat ability. If he's not 100% it's just not worth putting him out there unless it's a must win game against a good team.


No, he isn't. RGIII is the better pocket, on the designed move, scramble and otherwise, passer.

This what makes RGIII damn near unstoppable, and incredibly dangerous. But without it, he's still more dangerous than Kirk. Coincidentally, that is why one of them is the starter and the other isn't.


Disagree. Saw both play quite a bit in college. RGIII has better arm strength but that's about it. Cousins has better touch and better accuracy. Also more decisive in the pocket. RGIII is the better all-around player, obviously.


I saw both play in college as well. And I can understand how someone might have a different opinion because Kirk is really good, much better than a lot of "us" gave him credit for when drafted. But more importantly I've watched both play in the pros. Griffin is the better decision maker, quarterback, reader of defenses (whether it be in the context of the option read, pistol formation plays, shotgun or dropbacks). Cousins has 1 less INT in 1.7 games as Griffin does all year. Out of 48 attempts, Kirk's got 3 picks. In 351 attempts Griffin has 4. That tells me someone is reading defenses better and making better throws, from everywhere on the field, including the pocket. Being decisive in the pocket is only worthwhile if the decisions you make are good ones. AGAIN, I don't think Kirk makes bad decisions or is a bad qb, but on no metric is he better than Robert.
I know he got a pretty good zip on the ball. He has a quick release. . . once I seen a coupla' throws, I was just like 'Yeah, he's that dude.'"

-Santana Moss on Our QB

#33
Posts: 4084
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 8:44 am

Postby skinsfan#33 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:09 pm

Countertrey wrote:
funsho2 wrote:
Countertrey wrote:Um... NO. There is a better quarterback on the team.

smh that this thread exists.


some people might want rg3 to rest another week given we are playing a 4-10 philly team :roll:


The NFC East is NOT in our pocket yet. You play your best until it is... if Dallas and NY lose next week, you can then play Cousins against Dallas. :roll: back atcha...


If we beat the Egirls and the Cowgirls lose to the Aints that would put the Skins @ 9-6 and the Cowpukes @ 8-7 going into the last game that would mean if the Skins lose to the Cowgirls the last game they would be tied in:

- Record
- Head to head
- Division record
- Common opponenets
- Conference record

the next tie breaker would be strenght of victory and right now the Skins have the edge in that. The Skins are +31 and the Pukes are -11. Obviouly that can change and will change over these next two weeks, but if we get thorugh Phily and the Giants lose one of the next two it looks like we could win the NFCE even w/o sweeping the Cowgirls!
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain"
(It is time to roll the dice) Tai'shar Manetheren

"Duty is heavier than a Mountain, Death is lighter than a feather" Tai'shar Malkier

RIP James Oliver Rigney, Jr. 1948-2007

JSPB22
User avatar
Posts: 16149
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:03 am
Location: Location, LOCATION!

Postby Deadskins » Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:17 pm

skinsfan#33 wrote:
Countertrey wrote:
funsho2 wrote:
Countertrey wrote:Um... NO. There is a better quarterback on the team.

smh that this thread exists.


some people might want rg3 to rest another week given we are playing a 4-10 philly team :roll:


The NFC East is NOT in our pocket yet. You play your best until it is... if Dallas and NY lose next week, you can then play Cousins against Dallas. :roll: back atcha...


If we beat the Egirls and the Cowgirls lose to the Aints that would put the Skins @ 9-6 and the Cowpukes @ 8-7 going into the last game that would mean if the Skins lose to the Cowgirls the last game they would be tied in:

- Record
- Head to head
- Division record
- Common opponenets
- Conference record

the next tie breaker would be strenght of victory and right now the Skins have the edge in that. The Skins are +31 and the Pukes are -11. Obviouly that can change and will change over these next two weeks, but if we get thorugh Phily and the Giants lose one of the next two it looks like we could win the NFCE even w/o sweeping the Cowgirls!

I used the playoff scenario generator in ATL, and it said the Pies get the 4th seed if we lose to them week 17.
Andre Carter wrote:Damn man, you know your football.


Hog Bowl IV Champion (2012)

Hail to the Redskins!

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 4756
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 4:29 pm
Location: Montclair, Virginia

Postby riggofan » Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:29 pm

RGIII is our quarterback. If he's healthy, he plays.

Also, I understand the fantasies about trading KC at some point to recoup our draft picks. But personally I'm in no rush to see that happen. We haven't had a franchise QB since Joe Theisman. Now we have two solid young QBs on our roster for the next four years on affordable rookie contracts.

That is STABILITY. I don't see why anyone would be in a rush to trade that away.

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 364
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2006 10:25 pm
Location: Grand Forks, ND

Postby DaveD1420 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:31 pm


JSPB22
User avatar
Posts: 16149
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:03 am
Location: Location, LOCATION!

Postby Deadskins » Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:26 pm

DaveD1420 wrote:Love the cover photo: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1447 ... to-week-16

Not sure how they can still rank the G-strings above us. smh
Andre Carter wrote:Damn man, you know your football.


Hog Bowl IV Champion (2012)

Hail to the Redskins!

**LPJ**
Posts: 6385
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:12 am
Location: Langley Park, MD *Tick Tock*

Postby langleyparkjoe » Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:27 pm

R G 3 !!!!
Hog Bowl I Champion (2009)
Hog Bowl II Champion 2010- Cappster
Hog Bowl III Champion 2011- DarthMonk
Hog Bowl IV Champion 2012- Deadskins
Hog Bowl V Champion 2013- DarthMonk

DC Area, I support you.. Unconditionally
When I die, remember me as one loyal S.O.B.!

Hog
Posts: 2391
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:05 pm
Location: Midland, VA

Re: Should Cousins start vs Philly?

Postby Kilmer72 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:14 pm

SkinsJock wrote:
funsho2 wrote:Yes or No...give reason


WHY? - is that good enough or do you just not get it - get outa here with the negative vibes

we're playing for a record of 10-6

I cannot believe some of your posts



LMAO SJ :) Some people like to stir the pot. Thanks for putting him in his place.

Hog
Posts: 2391
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:05 pm
Location: Midland, VA

Postby Kilmer72 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:20 pm

StorminMormon86 wrote:I like Cousins...a lot...but RGIII is going to start if he's cleared. No questions asked. I can't fathom why people are talking about using Cousins as trade fodder. You do realize that it's a very real possibility that Griffin won't stay healthy for all 16 games in a season?


We are missing a few draft picks. If we can recoup some then even better. We still need DB help next year. Lets not worry about that yet until the off season.

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 794
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:44 am
Location: Italy

Postby everydayAskinsday » Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:59 pm

What do you do if he practices all week and impresses the coaches and deems himself ready to play BUT the doctors say he still needs one more week....

What do you do then? They went with the docs opinion this week but you are all saying play him and i know most of stated only if he is healthy but he could "look" healthy in practice and do everything they ask of him but still not have the blessing from the docs .. Do you still say let him risk it ?? We all know he is going to say he is fine and ready to go ...

What do you do then?

JSPB22
User avatar
Posts: 16149
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:03 am
Location: Location, LOCATION!

Postby Deadskins » Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:43 pm

If the doctors say no, then you go with Captain Kirk again.
Andre Carter wrote:Damn man, you know your football.


Hog Bowl IV Champion (2012)

Hail to the Redskins!

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 4756
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 4:29 pm
Location: Montclair, Virginia

Postby riggofan » Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:05 pm

Deadskins wrote:If the doctors say no, then you go with Captain Kirk again.


Insightful. :)

newbie
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:01 pm

Postby skinz1982 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:17 pm

emoses14 wrote:I saw both play in college as well. And I can understand how someone might have a different opinion because Kirk is really good, much better than a lot of "us" gave him credit for when drafted. But more importantly I've watched both play in the pros. Griffin is the better decision maker, quarterback, reader of defenses (whether it be in the context of the option read, pistol formation plays, shotgun or dropbacks). Cousins has 1 less INT in 1.7 games as Griffin does all year. Out of 48 attempts, Kirk's got 3 picks. In 351 attempts Griffin has 4. That tells me someone is reading defenses better and making better throws, from everywhere on the field, including the pocket. Being decisive in the pocket is only worthwhile if the decisions you make are good ones. AGAIN, I don't think Kirk makes bad decisions or is a bad qb, but on no metric is he better than Robert.


Admittedly I'm not a big stats guy, I go with what I observe. And I don't mean to sound like "that guy" but I played and coached (briefly) at the DIII level on the offensive side of the ball and would like to think I have a decent eye for these things.

Griffin's TD to INT ratio is impressive, but the thing is he is throwing to more open receivers due to the respect the defense has to give to his running ability in the zone read. And that's not to take anything away from RGIII, as having that impact on the defense is what makes him the more dangerous and better overall player. And it is hard to knock KC for some of those picks when you're coming in cold off the bench and have limited experience practicing with the ones. The timing and chemistry may not be there. A QB really needs time to get into a flow, I think yesterday's game was proof of that.

And please, don't misinterpret this for me saying that Cousins is the better PLAYER or the better OPTION. He's not. I'm just saying he's the better PURE PASSER and has more experience as a pocket passer, starting for three seasons at Michigan State in a traditional pro style. Knowing when to put the perfect touch and velocity on the ball is something you really can't coach and he has it, better than RGIII. He also throws a ball I think that is easier for WRs to catch (you'll noticed we didn't suffer dropsies yesterday) and he does great at leading his WRs so they get yards after the catch. He is also tremendous at the play action fake which is much more difficult than you would think to master. My biggest knock against him would be his footwork, which isn't terrible, and his arm strength is not tremendous, but certainly good enough.

Let me put it to you this way. If you take away RGIII's ability to run and improvise, and turn him strictly into a pocket passer, I don't think he could carve up a defense the way Cousins can. His mechanics, accuracy and ability to read a defense is a notch below KC, in my humble opinion.

DarthMonk
Posts: 4445
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 4:58 pm

Postby DarthMonk » Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:22 pm

Deadskins wrote:
skinz1982 wrote:Cousins has better touch and better accuracy. Also more decisive in the pocket.

Totally disagree.


This
Hog Bowl III, V Champion (2011, 2013)

Hognostication Champion (2011, 2013)


Scalp 'em, Swamp 'em,
We will take 'em big score!
Read 'em, Weep 'em Touchdown,
We want heap more!

Return to Hog Wash - Washington Redskins Football