Why'd We Abandon the Run Game?

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Why'd We Abandon the Run Game?

Postby ACW » Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:49 am

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Postby DaSkinz Baby » Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:39 am

That is the million dollar question. Personally I think it was Kyle's fault. I think he wanted to show his plays could work against the Seahawks. I think his arrogance cost us this win......

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Postby welch » Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:47 am

Did not abandon the run. Seahawks saw that Robert Griffin could not throw sharply and could not run.

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Postby Redskin in Canada » Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:11 am

welch wrote:Did not abandon the run. Seahawks saw that Robert Griffin could not throw sharply and could not run.

AMEN. :idea:
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Postby Chris Luva Luva » Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:33 am

It's hard to run the ball when you don't have a passing offensive.
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Postby DaSkinz Baby » Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:34 am

So the first two series didn't happen? The fact is Kyle started to go away from the run, we knew RG3 couldn't run and should have been taken out the game, did you all not see how all his passes were off? Not to mention the field was horrible no footing. Kirk should have played when he reinjured the knee when he fell out of bounds and his helmet came off. I admire the heck out of RG3 but his being in that game past the 3rd series was the doom of our season along with Kyle going away from the run.

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Postby rskin72 » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:03 am

Look, RGIII was having issues vs dullass as well, but we still pounded Morris to the tune of 200 yds. In his interview after the game, I think Shanny also was wondering why we went away from a more run (Morris) oriented attack....at least that is what I heard.

That was the biggest question I had after the game.....vice if Cousins should have come in at half.
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Postby Redskins_Fanatic » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:18 am

You abandoned the run game because your coaching staff is so incompetent that they have consistantly failed to get anything right over the last three years; and guess what.... YOU'RE STUCK WITH THEM FOR ANOTHER TWO YEARS. HaHaHa.

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Postby gibbsfan » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:25 am

what is done is done..

im angry but im excited that we have something but wait and see..

it,s a long offseason..
Last edited by gibbsfan on Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Mississippiskinsfan2 » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:25 am

:roll: Its going to be one of those days I see

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Postby PulpExposure » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:46 am

welch wrote:Did not abandon the run. Seahawks saw that Robert Griffin could not throw sharply and could not run.


They stopped running Morris as much. 11 carries in the first half, 5 in the second. I would have thought with an injured RG3 that you would feed Morris more, not less.

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Postby The Hogster » Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:04 pm

PulpExposure wrote:
welch wrote:Did not abandon the run. Seahawks saw that Robert Griffin could not throw sharply and could not run.


They stopped running Morris as much. 11 carries in the first half, 5 in the second. I would have thought with an injured RG3 that you would feed Morris more, not less.


We should have kept running, on that drive in the 4th Quarter when we had a 1 point lead. But, we didn't. But at the end of the day, we lost this game because RGIII got hurt. The offense just wasn't the same after the 1st Quarter. The Defense played well enough to win.
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Postby RayNAustin » Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:33 pm

DaSkinz Baby wrote:So the first two series didn't happen? The fact is Kyle started to go away from the run, we knew RG3 couldn't run and should have been taken out the game, did you all not see how all his passes were off? Not to mention the field was horrible no footing. Kirk should have played when he reinjured the knee when he fell out of bounds and his helmet came off. I admire the heck out of RG3 but his being in that game past the 3rd series was the doom of our season along with Kyle going away from the run.


I feel the exact same way, and believe me, there are lots of people around the NFL who share these same thoughts.

This goes back to an issue of wisdom and integrity that I've questioned about the Shanahans going back to their first year here, and all of the crap about cardiovascular conditioning as the reason for benching McNabb with 2 minutes left in the game, and putting in a cold backup Grossman who had no chance against a pass rush that had McNabb running for his life all game. And the very first play had Grossman clobbered and fumbled the game away. It was extremely poor judgement ... actually very amateurishly poor judgement (lobbied for by young Kyle the Coach's son) which portended many more questionable issues since, and now this mishandling of Robert .. the most valuable player this franchise has had in 20 or more years, with the next dozen years of the future riding on his development. And when I say mishandling of Robert, I don't just mean yesterday. I mean from DAY ONE, and continuing throughout this entire season.

There have been legitimate concerns voiced throughout the year about how long RG3 could hold up under the style of offense the Redskins were having him run, and we've all seen the beatings this kid's body has taken, and now we see the results. Sure, it was exciting ... and for a fan base that has suffered through years of inept offensive production, the new exciting top 5 offense was a sight for sore eyes. Buy it's crack cocaine baby ... crack ... not good ... and will only lead to addiction and disaster. Running QBs don't survive long in the NFL ... and that is just a fact long ago proven true, and we've seen first hand, that truth unfold right before our eyes.

The other, untold aspect of this is that while the fans were desperate for wins and for hope and for exciting offense, the Shanahans were equally desperate for success for entirely different reasons. After two seasons of pure failure, particularly on offense .... two losing seasons, dominated by complete ineptness to score points, and the mishandling of the revolving QB position, the team made a massive investment to get RG3. Unfortunately, injury to key defensive players, and a couple of previously poor judgement calls about letting go some defensive players, led to a breakdown on defense, while the offense was flourishing, resulting in a disastrous 3-6 record in the 1st half of the third season that was now shaping up to be yet another disaster. And going into the buy week, we saw the Head Coach basically throw in the towel, talking about the rest of the season being an evaluation period, who then lied about what he said afterward when the heat was turned up on him.

This is what sparked an attitude shift in the locker room, led by a rookie who's confidence and character refuses to quit, that turned things around, and that inspiration and determination led to the team stringing together a 7 win miracle, which some people foolishly give credit to the coaching staff who magically became instant geniuses with an extra week off? No .... the players rallied around a kid with guts and character, and fought their way to 7 wins, similarly to how the 2005 Redskins and Clinton Portis took it upon themselves to win out the remaining games (5 and 0 or we don't go). And if anyone on that coaching staff deserves credit for helping this, it would be Jim Haslett who managed to stop the bleeding on defense and give this RG3-Morris combination a chance to win games. That's the reality.

But as the old saying goes, "you can't fix stupid", and you can't expect good judgement from those who have long proven to possess poor judgement. After the injury to RG3 in the Ravens game, he has not been the same player. Injured enough to prevent him from playing against the Browns, his back up came in and played brilliantly in relief. Good judgement would have suggested that Cousins should have played in the following week's game against a struggling Eagle's team, giving RG3 an extra week to heal, but we have that desperate situation to deal with ... that prize of a winning season finally. So RG3 was put back out there PREMATURELY and he fought through the injury and won the game. But the following week against the Cowboys, RG3 was not healthy, in spite of the claims otherwise, and it showed up in his performance .... 9/18 passing for a measly 100 yards. The offense was carried by Morris 33 carries and 200 yards, and the ONLY reason we beat the Cowboys, along with the best defensive performance of the year.

Now, the playoffs are here ... but RG3 is injured. And I understand why he started the game ... he earned the right to. And the Redskins fast start led to 14-0 first quarter lead ... but the second series left RG3 re-injured, and limping badly, and he should have been pulled out RIGHT THEN. Here Kirk .... you got a 14 point lead, now you and the defense get out there and win this game! But that's not what happened .... in yet another display of extremely poor judgement, the Coaches let the player decide what was best for the team, and so RG3 played for the next 48 minutes severely hampered and totally ineffective , while a healthy and able backup sat on the bench and watched this game disintegrate in a 24 point reversal, in part due to a very solid but worn out defense that ran out of gas, as the offense sputtered with only 80 yards of offense in the final 55 minutes of the game.

This loss lays squarely on the poor decision to allow RG3 to play until he was unable to get up off the ground ... throws were off target ... and the defense was well aware that he was simply no threat at all to run or pass, and so the pressure was applied full steam, and the Redskins had NO CHANCE while RG3 was in there. That is the story of this game ... PERIOD. No mystery ... no debate ... no ifs ands or buts.

But that's not the big problem here ... and this playoff game loss is not the big picture. The big picture is still poor judgement .. poor judgement in offensive strategy all year that led to this kid being knocked out of games, first with a concussion, and then a knee injury and then playing him injured. That's the real story that has been lost in the glory of finally winning the Division and making the playoffs. And based on everything we've seen from the Shanaclan, good and bad, what we cannot expect to see in the future is better judgement. Mike Shanahan is a seasoned coach with decades of experience ... and his judgement is what it is ... for better or worse, what you see is what you get. And he's done some good things, no doubt about it. But it's the bad judgement that is of greatest concern moving forward.

The bottom line is, right from the start, RG3's development has taken the wrong approach philosophically, and regardless of the success for most of the year, it is not sustainable, but it can ingrain some bad habits that will plague him throughout his career if it continues. And there is no reason to believe that this won't continue when you have coaches that will let him take snaps on a "broken leg" (that's a metaphor in case someone idiotically declares ... his leg isn't broken) ... an injury that was very predictable to be the result of how he was used throughout the season.

In somewhat of an irony, we faced off against a team yesterday that has a young QB with somewhat similar skills as RG3, who had great success this year, and who was sharp and healthy and fast, compared to the worn out and injured RG3 who possesses superior passing skills. Russell Wilson's running skill is utilized without being so heavily relied upon that would lead to greater chances of injury. The offense they ran used that running as a complementary skill, and not a primary weapon ... something the Redskins and Kyle Shanahan should have, but didn't do. That's why Wilson was fast and mobile, and RG3 was virtually unable to throw, much less run.

The best thing that could happen to RG3 is for some needy team to believe this hogwash about Kyle Shanahan's brilliance, and hire him as a head coach and get him the hell out of here while Robert still has legs, otherwise, the only other best option is to fire Mike Shanahan, because he will not fire his own son, nor has he demonstrated the wisdom to demand a radical change of philosophy for how this talented kid is to be developed as a traditional passing QB, without all of the hair brained triple option, option run pass that belongs in the college game, and not in the pros, where careers are expected to last more than the sophomore, Junior and Senior 3 years.

For those who believe "they'll figure it out" and make the appropriate changes, I say, you can't fix stupid, and you can't expect good judgement from people who have proven beyond a reasonable doubt to have particularly poor judgement on too many occasions.

Then there is the issue of integrity ... which you certainly can't fix. Mike has been caught in lies on more than one occasion, and that may be his greatest flaw. His latest "miscommunication" came in the form of claiming that the doctor cleared RB3 to re-enter the Ravens game, when the doctor subsequently claimed that was not true.

If a man's word cannot be trusted, he's useless in my opinion. Lairs need to be shown the door. regardless of their other "qualities". So there you have it ... poor judgement, and a lack of integrity .... not high on the list for what you look for in a man to be in charge of anything.

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Postby DaSkinz Baby » Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:47 pm

PulpExposure wrote:
welch wrote:Did not abandon the run. Seahawks saw that Robert Griffin could not throw sharply and could not run.


They stopped running Morris as much. 11 carries in the first half, 5 in the second. I would have thought with an injured RG3 that you would feed Morris more, not less.


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Postby DaSkinz Baby » Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:55 pm

RayNAustin wrote:
DaSkinz Baby wrote:So the first two series didn't happen? The fact is Kyle started to go away from the run, we knew RG3 couldn't run and should have been taken out the game, did you all not see how all his passes were off? Not to mention the field was horrible no footing. Kirk should have played when he reinjured the knee when he fell out of bounds and his helmet came off. I admire the heck out of RG3 but his being in that game past the 3rd series was the doom of our season along with Kyle going away from the run.


I feel the exact same way, and believe me, there are lots of people around the NFL who share these same thoughts.

This goes back to an issue of wisdom and integrity that I've questioned about the Shanahans going back to their first year here, and all of the crap about cardiovascular conditioning as the reason for benching McNabb with 2 minutes left in the game, and putting in a cold backup Grossman who had no chance against a pass rush that had McNabb running for his life all game. And the very first play had Grossman clobbered and fumbled the game away. It was extremely poor judgement ... actually very amateurishly poor judgement (lobbied for by young Kyle the Coach's son) which portended many more questionable issues since, and now this mishandling of Robert .. the most valuable player this franchise has had in 20 or more years, with the next dozen years of the future riding on his development. And when I say mishandling of Robert, I don't just mean yesterday. I mean from DAY ONE, and continuing throughout this entire season.

There have been legitimate concerns voiced throughout the year about how long RG3 could hold up under the style of offense the Redskins were having him run, and we've all seen the beatings this kid's body has taken, and now we see the results. Sure, it was exciting ... and for a fan base that has suffered through years of inept offensive production, the new exciting top 5 offense was a sight for sore eyes. Buy it's crack cocaine baby ... crack ... not good ... and will only lead to addiction and disaster. Running QBs don't survive long in the NFL ... and that is just a fact long ago proven true, and we've seen first hand, that truth unfold right before our eyes.

The other, untold aspect of this is that while the fans were desperate for wins and for hope and for exciting offense, the Shanahans were equally desperate for success for entirely different reasons. After two seasons of pure failure, particularly on offense .... two losing seasons, dominated by complete ineptness to score points, and the mishandling of the revolving QB position, the team made a massive investment to get RG3. Unfortunately, injury to key defensive players, and a couple of previously poor judgement calls about letting go some defensive players, led to a breakdown on defense, while the offense was flourishing, resulting in a disastrous 3-6 record in the 1st half of the third season that was now shaping up to be yet another disaster. And going into the buy week, we saw the Head Coach basically throw in the towel, talking about the rest of the season being an evaluation period, who then lied about what he said afterward when the heat was turned up on him.

This is what sparked an attitude shift in the locker room, led by a rookie who's confidence and character refuses to quit, that turned things around, and that inspiration and determination led to the team stringing together a 7 win miracle, which some people foolishly give credit to the coaching staff who magically became instant geniuses with an extra week off? No .... the players rallied around a kid with guts and character, and fought their way to 7 wins, similarly to how the 2005 Redskins and Clinton Portis took it upon themselves to win out the remaining games (5 and 0 or we don't go). And if anyone on that coaching staff deserves credit for helping this, it would be Jim Haslett who managed to stop the bleeding on defense and give this RG3-Morris combination a chance to win games. That's the reality.

But as the old saying goes, "you can't fix stupid", and you can't expect good judgement from those who have long proven to possess poor judgement. After the injury to RG3 in the Ravens game, he has not been the same player. Injured enough to prevent him from playing against the Browns, his back up came in and played brilliantly in relief. Good judgement would have suggested that Cousins should have played in the following week's game against a struggling Eagle's team, giving RG3 an extra week to heal, but we have that desperate situation to deal with ... that prize of a winning season finally. So RG3 was put back out there PREMATURELY and he fought through the injury and won the game. But the following week against the Cowboys, RG3 was not healthy, in spite of the claims otherwise, and it showed up in his performance .... 9/18 passing for a measly 100 yards. The offense was carried by Morris 33 carries and 200 yards, and the ONLY reason we beat the Cowboys, along with the best defensive performance of the year.

Now, the playoffs are here ... but RG3 is injured. And I understand why he started the game ... he earned the right to. And the Redskins fast start led to 14-0 first quarter lead ... but the second series left RG3 re-injured, and limping badly, and he should have been pulled out RIGHT THEN. Here Kirk .... you got a 14 point lead, now you and the defense get out there and win this game! But that's not what happened .... in yet another display of extremely poor judgement, the Coaches let the player decide what was best for the team, and so RG3 played for the next 48 minutes severely hampered and totally ineffective , while a healthy and able backup sat on the bench and watched this game disintegrate in a 24 point reversal, in part due to a very solid but worn out defense that ran out of gas, as the offense sputtered with only 80 yards of offense in the final 55 minutes of the game.

This loss lays squarely on the poor decision to allow RG3 to play until he was unable to get up off the ground ... throws were off target ... and the defense was well aware that he was simply no threat at all to run or pass, and so the pressure was applied full steam, and the Redskins had NO CHANCE while RG3 was in there. That is the story of this game ... PERIOD. No mystery ... no debate ... no ifs ands or buts.

But that's not the big problem here ... and this playoff game loss is not the big picture. The big picture is still poor judgement .. poor judgement in offensive strategy all year that led to this kid being knocked out of games, first with a concussion, and then a knee injury and then playing him injured. That's the real story that has been lost in the glory of finally winning the Division and making the playoffs. And based on everything we've seen from the Shanaclan, good and bad, what we cannot expect to see in the future is better judgement. Mike Shanahan is a seasoned coach with decades of experience ... and his judgement is what it is ... for better or worse, what you see is what you get. And he's done some good things, no doubt about it. But it's the bad judgement that is of greatest concern moving forward.

The bottom line is, right from the start, RG3's development has taken the wrong approach philosophically, and regardless of the success for most of the year, it is not sustainable, but it can ingrain some bad habits that will plague him throughout his career if it continues. And there is no reason to believe that this won't continue when you have coaches that will let him take snaps on a "broken leg" (that's a metaphor in case someone idiotically declares ... his leg isn't broken) ... an injury that was very predictable to be the result of how he was used throughout the season.

In somewhat of an irony, we faced off against a team yesterday that has a young QB with somewhat similar skills as RG3, who had great success this year, and who was sharp and healthy and fast, compared to the worn out and injured RG3 who possesses superior passing skills. Russell Wilson's running skill is utilized without being so heavily relied upon that would lead to greater chances of injury. The offense they ran used that running as a complementary skill, and not a primary weapon ... something the Redskins and Kyle Shanahan should have, but didn't do. That's why Wilson was fast and mobile, and RG3 was virtually unable to throw, much less run.

The best thing that could happen to RG3 is for some needy team to believe this hogwash about Kyle Shanahan's brilliance, and hire him as a head coach and get him the hell out of here while Robert still has legs, otherwise, the only other best option is to fire Mike Shanahan, because he will not fire his own son, nor has he demonstrated the wisdom to demand a radical change of philosophy for how this talented kid is to be developed as a traditional passing QB, without all of the hair brained triple option, option run pass that belongs in the college game, and not in the pros, where careers are expected to last more than the sophomore, Junior and Senior 3 years.

For those who believe "they'll figure it out" and make the appropriate changes, I say, you can't fix stupid, and you can't expect good judgement from people who have proven beyond a reasonable doubt to have particularly poor judgement on too many occasions.

Then there is the issue of integrity ... which you certainly can't fix. Mike has been caught in lies on more than one occasion, and that may be his greatest flaw. His latest "miscommunication" came in the form of claiming that the doctor cleared RB3 to re-enter the Ravens game, when the doctor subsequently claimed that was not true.

If a man's word cannot be trusted, he's useless in my opinion. Lairs need to be shown the door. regardless of their other "qualities". So there you have it ... poor judgement, and a lack of integrity .... not high on the list for what you look for in a man to be in charge of anything.


I agree totally. I also think Kyle has his arse on his shoulders cause Daddy said he couldn't think or interview on another job till after the season, we here Kyle is being mentioned for other potential jobs and Mike is working on an extension. I think both of them are WAY too arrogant and that is why they lost this game. Mike talks about gut check and all that crap but all the experience he supposedly has and he doesn't save RG3 from himself, let's remember RG3 is 22 and at times you need to save people from themselves. So what happens when it's revealed that he has a MCL or ACL tear and he won't be back till November or December of next season??? Cause I think that knee was WAY WORSE than what they said and the truth will come out. You don't get hobbled like that after a month with a grade 1 strain...........I am willing to bet that the LCL was probably TORN all along.........

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