Any and All News About RG3's Knee - Merged

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Postby RayNAustin » Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:25 pm

DaSkinz Baby wrote:People I think you all need to do some simple research about LCL injuries and time tables. For the people that don't get it, the LCL is FAR MORE COMPLEX than an ACL or MCL tear. I believe that RG3 will come back and may even be better than ever but I doubt he comes back in 2013. 9-12 months people for a full LCL recovery. People also understand this has nothing to do with Adrian Peterson or his injury the LCL is the worst injury and when they use a complete RECONSTRUCTION verbage I tend to think that the knee is SHREDDED. The best thing that can happen is the knee get's fully repaired, and during next year's season he rehab's and get the muscles strong again and works on his explosion and continues to study the play book. 2014 he comes back hungrier than ever and then craps on the division again. I truly believe next year is a wash for RG3 and anyone that believes he will be back is basically a gullible imbecile.


I agree with your conclusions, but not the details. Everything I've read, and the commentary by other surgeons suggest a longer recovery from an ACL ... of 6-8 months, and 4-6 Months for an LCL. Obviously, or maybe it isn't obvious, but should be, is that the recovery time is longer if BOTH reconstructions are required .. it's not simply a case of both healing at the same time, using the longer period as the total period of healing. There is concurrent healing of course, but the body only heals so fast, and the combination of both assaults require some additional healing time as opposed to just a single ligament reconstruction.

As for whether RG3 CAN be ready for the 2013 season, depends on numerous variables, to include how one defines "ready", what portion of the season you're looking at, and what risk you're willing to take in returning. Peterson took his first live game action 8 1/2 months after surgery to repair his two ligament reconstruction, though he considered himself ready to play a month sooner in the pre-season, but the Vikings did not want to risk it. And according to several medical sources, a full recovery still takes 12 months for healing to complete ... which does not mean the athlete cannot perform before that, only that a full healing takes 12 months complete.

The real issue is that Peterson's return in the 8 1/2 month mark is considered a tremendously fast recovery .... so that would lead any logical person to view this claim of 6-8 months time frame for RG3 to be extremely questionable, perhaps even dubious. 8 months? Maybe. 6 Months, preposterous, unless you want to send him out prematurely, and risk re-injury and extremely risky consequences for his future.

There is a lot of damage control and cover-your-butt politics going on here, and for those who simply swallow whatever bait is dangled in front of them ... well, fish love fish stories, especially the stories of the ones that got away.

Everyone is free to believe what they "want to believe" ... I prefer to look at reality, without the rose colored glasses being sold by those covering for their own poor judgement.

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Postby RayNAustin » Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:30 pm

Redskin in Canada wrote:
RayNAustin wrote:
Redskin in Canada wrote:
RayNAustin wrote:
SkinsJock wrote::roll: OH NO! .. I was kind of enjoying reading some of the really STUPID posts and hypotheses ... they took me away from considering the reality ....


Oh, you mean like "Good News!!! RG3's Knee only needs massive reconstructive surgery" ???

Guess what .... apparently some people actually understand my "silly points". :roll:


After a bit of encouragement and a few consecutive good posts in previous months, we are back to the OLD RAY: bitter, sour, pessimistic, negative, emotional, and, most importantly, he KNOWS IT ALL better than ANYBODY else.

Thanks for the reminder, Ray, it was time to re-discover the OLD RAY. :roll:


I suggest you rediscover your memory about how many times I was right.

Ohhhh! There is plenty of them BOTH ways, Ray.

You are just getting EMOTION and FEAR take over the rational approach which you SOME TIMES take. :wink:


Rather than gratuitous jabs, perhaps you might like to debate an actual point for which you take issue, instead of just making a broad brush attack.

I'm more than willing to defend my points to conclusive victory anytime.

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Postby SkinsJock » Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:34 pm

I'm looking forward to seeing this kid actually 'benefitting' from the operation in that Dr Andrews was 'reportedly' able to do some work on the ACL - thereby making it 'better' than before

I look forward to seeing if RG3 can actually end up being a little faster than he was in 2012

I also would anticipate that he's going to be a whole lot wiser

So wiser and faster works for me - man are we lucky - this might have been a disaster ....


HAIL
one should always try to look on the bright side ... especially Redskins fans after the past 20 plus years

things will get better .... hopefully soon

Hail to the Redskins

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Postby DaSkinz Baby » Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:34 pm

RayNAustin wrote:
DaSkinz Baby wrote:People I think you all need to do some simple research about LCL injuries and time tables. For the people that don't get it, the LCL is FAR MORE COMPLEX than an ACL or MCL tear. I believe that RG3 will come back and may even be better than ever but I doubt he comes back in 2013. 9-12 months people for a full LCL recovery. People also understand this has nothing to do with Adrian Peterson or his injury the LCL is the worst injury and when they use a complete RECONSTRUCTION verbage I tend to think that the knee is SHREDDED. The best thing that can happen is the knee get's fully repaired, and during next year's season he rehab's and get the muscles strong again and works on his explosion and continues to study the play book. 2014 he comes back hungrier than ever and then craps on the division again. I truly believe next year is a wash for RG3 and anyone that believes he will be back is basically a gullible imbecile.


I agree with your conclusions, but not the details. Everything I've read, and the commentary by other surgeons suggest a longer recovery from an ACL ... of 6-8 months, and 4-6 Months for an LCL. Obviously, or maybe it isn't obvious, but should be, is that the recovery time is longer if BOTH reconstructions are required .. it's not simply a case of both healing at the same time, using the longer period as the total period of healing. There is concurrent healing of course, but the body only heals so fast, and the combination of both assaults require some additional healing time as opposed to just a single ligament reconstruction.

As for whether RG3 CAN be ready for the 2013 season, depends on numerous variables, to include how one defines "ready", what portion of the season you're looking at, and what risk you're willing to take in returning. Peterson took his first live game action 8 1/2 months after surgery to repair his two ligament reconstruction, though he considered himself ready to play a month sooner in the pre-season, but the Vikings did not want to risk it. And according to several medical sources, a full recovery still takes 12 months for healing to complete ... which does not mean the athlete cannot perform before that, only that a full healing takes 12 months complete.

The real issue is that Peterson's return in the 8 1/2 month mark is considered a tremendously fast recovery .... so that would lead any logical person to view this claim of 6-8 months time frame for RG3 to be extremely questionable, perhaps even dubious. 8 months? Maybe. 6 Months, preposterous, unless you want to send him out prematurely, and risk re-injury and extremely risky consequences for his future.

There is a lot of damage control and cover-your-butt politics going on here, and for those who simply swallow whatever bait is dangled in front of them ... well, fish love fish stories, especially the stories of the ones that got away.

Everyone is free to believe what they "want to believe" ... I prefer to look at reality, without the rose colored glasses being sold by those covering for their own poor judgement.


+1 the only thing left is to wonder and plot as to why Dr. Andrews hasn't released any statement. I know for a fact that with his popularity some type of official word should have come down from Mount Snyder. I just am expecting the worse that way when it becomes official I can be prepared and on the off chance he makes it back by game 1 I will be happier than a pig in slop....

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Postby grampi » Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:39 pm

Unless a doctor makes an offcial statement saying RG3 can never play again, nothing is difinitive. Everything else is pure speculation, even coming from a doctor. I'm sure the doctors were saying AP would be lucky to be able to play this year at all, let alone almost set a new rushing record. The bottom line here is that everyone heals differently. The only way for sure to know when RG3 will be ready to play again, and how well he'll be able to to play is to wait and see. Speculations (and that's all they are at this point) are just that. I will say there has been many NFL players who have suffered similar, or even worse knee injuries and came back to have long, productive careers. I have no reason to believe RG3 won't do the same....

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6-8 months? Really? Really??

Postby threeflight » Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:59 pm

So the spin doctors are out in full force, wanting people to believe that somehow, someway, even though RG3 has a previous injury in the same knee, even though he had two different areas of the knee worked on, he is possible to come back 2 months SOONER than Peterson did? Who had no cartilege or previous ligament damage and who when he came back at 8 months, was proclaimed a medical miracle?

Me thinks someone doesn't want the truth out or lest it hurt Shanny's rep, but also the all important season ticket sales.

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Postby threeflight » Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:01 pm

If I was a Redskins fan, I'd be hoping they put RG3 on IR the entire season. The 6 months time frame being thrown around is completely ridiculous, especially considering this is already his second tear and he had a LCL tear to go along with it. Just for reference, here is a list of Giants players who have torn their ACL twice. Only one has managed to successfully come back and continue playing (Hixon).

Name | First tear | Second Tear | Time between tears

Domenik Hixon June 2010 Sept 2011 9 months
Clint Sintim Dec 2010 Sept 2011 9 months
Brian Witherspoon Aug 2011 May 2012 9 months
Jonathan Goff Sept 2011 July 2012 9 months
Terrell Thomas Aug 2011 Aug 2012 12 months *also tore ACL in college

Terrell Thomas is the player most comparable to RG3. Terrell Thomas tore his ACL in college, came back and had a few good, healthy years in the NFL. When he tore it for the second time, he had an entire 12 months off being he needed to do anything. He tore it a 3rd time after slipping on a non-contact drill in training camp.

I guarantee if RG3 is on the field in 6 months, his career is as good as over.

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Postby threeflight » Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:02 pm

Check out this article, it explains a lot of questions.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post...ery-for-rg-iii

"Another thing to consider is that with a second reconstruction of the same knee it is sometimes difficult to get exactly the same alignment of the second graft because the placement of the first graft has already caused anatomic changes (i.e., the original hole required to pass the first graft)," Chris wrote. "Even a slight change in that alignment can alter the load sharing between the ligaments in the knee. Think about the knee like a marionette, with each string on the marionette representing one of the ligaments in the knee. If you were to change the position of the string on the handle (malignant) or lengthen the string (laxity in the ligament) you would dramatically change how you could control the marionette."

Basically, they have to poke another new hole in his knee to insert the new ligament through. That changes the anatomical structure of the knee, and because the ligament will move from its original and even secondary position to a tertiary position, you are talking about a much different angle which affects the load bearing of all the ligaments.

For example, female athletes have a 3x higher rate of ACL tears than men because they have wider hips, putting more load on the ACL because the angle of hip-to-knee causes greater torque on the ACL.

And this is what they said in the article:

"Anytime you have a second insult to a knee, it's less favorable than the first, and having another procedure is less ideal. I don't know, when he had his original reconstruction, whether they used his patellar tendon [to repair the ACL]. But if they did use it, obviously they can't use it again, so what do they do? Do they use his other patellar tendon? Do they use a hamstring graft? That would have a lot to do with his recovery time. And then there's the issue of whether there's any cartilage damage in the knee as a result of this injury. When you're talking about the life span of his knee, that's going to be one of the big elements -- not just the ligament, but how healthy is the joint itself?"

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Postby Mississippiskinsfan2 » Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:11 pm

Did we really need a new topic for this??? Could you not put this in one of the others thats talking about the same thing????

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Postby The Hogster » Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:18 pm

This is more about his agenda to convince people to panic, than it is about actually seeing what happens.
SPIT HAPPENS!!
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Postby The Hogster » Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:24 pm

People are confusing recovery with performance. Adrian Peterson's "recovery" was on schedule with other athletes who have torn knee ligaments. The phenomal aspect of Peterson's case, is the level at which he's played after that 8 1/2 period, and the position he plays.

He plays a position that demands a lot from the knees, and he came back just as explosive--if not moreso--than he was before. Most people expected him to gradually get back into form. He hit the ground running as if he had a regular offseason and actually improved in many ways.

There is no doubt that RGIII will be "recovered" from his surgery by September. The only question is whether he will be able to be the same player right away. Some of us are optimistic because he is a freakish athlete with a freakish work ethic, much like Peterson.

Others think that he should rest for 12 months to be safe. What they base this on? Who knows.

All in all, it's not up to us. So, I'll trust what I know and have seen from RGIII, and that's that if anyone can return from this injury and be better than ever, it's guys like AP and RGIII. Based on everything I read, the rehab process will determine how quickly he regains his world class explosion. Adrian Peterson said in an interview that he's better now because the knee is more structurally sound AND that rehabbing forced him to pay more attention to his body. To take more time with strengthening his body.

For me, I think of what RGIII will look like on the field with a strong knee, and much more powerful quads, calves, hamstrings, core muscles etc. He has no choice but to become even more of a freak. And that has me optimistic.
SPIT HAPPENS!!
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Postby RayNAustin » Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:35 pm

The Hogster wrote:Stop whining. What's done is done. We aren't playing this weekend because we lost. Should we, could we, and would we have won with a healthy RGIII?? Yes.

But, that wasn't the case, and it does nothing to cry over spilled milk. Let's hope that he can put this knee issue behind him now that it's been repaired. The positive aspect of this is that structurally his knee will be stronger than ever. And, at age 22, he should regain his strength, speed, and explosiveness a lot quicker than he would if he were 29 or so.


That's nonsense. The outcome of that game is the most inconsequential of the issues here. This franchise made a huge investment in this Kid ... and by the way ... the pain and suffering and rehab he'll have to endure over the next several months also happens to be more important than this one "precious game", considering he was dealt for to play these types of games for the next dozen or more years. That's the point!

RELATIVE TO THAT POINT, comes the very simple and logical, time tested philosophy of assessing the factors that contributed to this disastrous result, for the equally important effort to avoid repeating the same mistakes. It's not an exercise that can change the damage already done, but preventing it from happening again is a worthy cause.

This C'est la vie attitude really chaps my rear end, as it totally dismisses the need for doing just that .. assessing how this happened, and how the risk of it happening again can be minimized. Of course injuries cannot be prevented, but the decisions that lead to "unnecessary risk" of injury is what we're dealing with, particularly if that involves carelessness or negligence in the way this situation was handled by people who should KNOW BETTER, and not allow the outcome of a single game, or the wants and desires of a 22 year old player overrule those who are in charge that should exercise better judgement. To heck with Andrews and Shanahan's obvious self serving CYA exercises after the fact .... that is to be expected, and I predicted that too.

There is no big mystery why ... out of the top rookie QB's that had came out this year ... that it was only RG3 who finished in a fetal position in the freaking dirt, and facing major reconstructive knee surgery. This result was a fear voiced all year by many around the league who suggested that he'd not last very long with the way he was being used, including yours truly. That is an undeniable fact, and a situation that needs further scrutiny given those warnings have become reality.

The situation is only exacerbated by the fact that RG3 was allowed to hobble around for 3 quarters, virtually incapacitated, when anyone with a marginal grasp of common sense would have pulled him from the game after it was clear he was not capable of even protecting himself. Race Horses are treated with better care and caution than was offered this kid, who didn't know better, and shouldn't be expected to take himself out of the game.

His Coach has that responsibility, but even now, after the fact, he won't own it, and neither will his Son who's reckless abandon in the way he utilized this kids skills ALL YEAR ... including such bone headed decisions like sending him out as a freaking wide receiver, may have been successful in producing exciting results, but at what cost?

If you ask me, there should be some shared costs for this disaster ... rather than the entire bill be paid by RG3 in his pain and suffering ... particularly when what he might have to look forward to is just more of the same, from the same "blameless", when he eventually returns.

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Postby RayNAustin » Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:54 pm

SkinsJock wrote:I look forward to seeing if RG3 can actually end up being a little faster than he was in 2012


Stop it. Just stop. RG3 is not an automobile, and Andrews is not installing a Super Charger or Nitrous tank.

Great googly moogly. Pretty soon, we'll see the sign ... "Come in and get your knees reconstructed to enhance athletic performance" ... we guarantee a 10% increase because we're smarter than God.

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Postby RayNAustin » Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:57 pm

The Hogster wrote:People are confusing recovery with performance. Adrian Peterson's "recovery" was on schedule with other athletes who have torn knee ligaments. The phenomal aspect of Peterson's case, is the level at which he's played after that 8 1/2 period, and the position he plays.

He plays a position that demands a lot from the knees, and he came back just as explosive--if not moreso--than he was before. Most people expected him to gradually get back into form. He hit the ground running as if he had a regular offseason and actually improved in many ways.

There is no doubt that RGIII will be "recovered" from his surgery by September. The only question is whether he will be able to be the same player right away. Some of us are optimistic because he is a freakish athlete with a freakish work ethic, much like Peterson.

Others think that he should rest for 12 months to be safe. What they base this on? Who knows.

All in all, it's not up to us. So, I'll trust what I know and have seen from RGIII, and that's that if anyone can return from this injury and be better than ever, it's guys like AP and RGIII. Based on everything I read, the rehab process will determine how quickly he regains his world class explosion. Adrian Peterson said in an interview that he's better now because the knee is more structurally sound AND that rehabbing forced him to pay more attention to his body. To take more time with strengthening his body.

For me, I think of what RGIII will look like on the field with a strong knee, and much more powerful quads, calves, hamstrings, core muscles etc. He has no choice but to become even more of a freak. And that has me optimistic.


I'd prefer he grow 4 more inches in height, gain 40 more pounds, and then maybe he'd be used as a QB instead of a tackling dummy.

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Postby grampi » Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:57 pm

The Hogster wrote:This is more about his agenda to convince people to panic, than it is about actually seeing what happens.


Agreed. NOBODY KNOWS for sure how this is going to play out...RG3 may not be able to play at all this year, or he may be ready for the 1st preseason game....it's all speculation at this point...

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