Facing forward

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Postby DarthMonk » Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:10 pm

From Boswell:

LINK

Excerpt:

How well and how much will Griffin be able to run when he returns? It matters, but maybe not a great deal. After watching him get knocked out in three of his 16 starts this season, what Redskin coach is ever again going to allow RGIII to run the ball 120 times, whether he gains 815 yards or not?

Griffin blew up his knee at Baylor, now again. What is it we don’t understand? The slim Griffin isn’t fragile, but he’s not extremely durable.

Aaron Rodgers is a mobile quarterback and an effective runner in crucial spots. He averages about 60 carries for 300 yards every year. That’s a good model. More isn’t necessary. Given RGIII’s history, more might be nuts. If a team doesn’t willfully destroy a quarterback, he should last a decade.
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Postby The Hogster » Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:44 pm

DarthMonk wrote:From Boswell:

LINK

Excerpt:

How well and how much will Griffin be able to run when he returns? It matters, but maybe not a great deal. After watching him get knocked out in three of his 16 starts this season, what Redskin coach is ever again going to allow RGIII to run the ball 120 times, whether he gains 815 yards or not?

Griffin blew up his knee at Baylor, now again. What is it we don’t understand? The slim Griffin isn’t fragile, but he’s not extremely durable.

Aaron Rodgers is a mobile quarterback and an effective runner in crucial spots. He averages about 60 carries for 300 yards every year. That’s a good model. More isn’t necessary. Given RGIII’s history, more might be nuts. If a team doesn’t willfully destroy a quarterback, he should last a decade.


While it's tough to argue with his general premise, it ignores the nature of what happened to RGIII. He got injured on non-designed run plays. That doesn't mean that he should not carry the ball less. He should. But, a big part of his runs came on the read option which when run correctly, allows him to run only when there's open field due to the DE taking the running back.

Aaron Rodgers runs mainly on scrambles, and some designed draw plays. I think the correct balance is somewhere in between. Maybe 80-100 runs. More than Rodgers' 60, but less than his 120 this year. I make that conclusion because I don't think the Redskins should eliminate the read option. They perfected it. And, RGIII can run it without exposing himself to risk. He needs to do a better job of protecting himself.

The balance from the Dallas game was more like what I'd prefer to see. He ran a few times when needed, and protected himself. We shouldn't stop doing that. It's what makes him so lethal. It keeps the defense's feet in quicksand.

If he runs more like he did in the Dallas game. That would put him on pace for 96 carries for the year. More importantly, he got down or out of bounds without getting hit. That is the perfect balance.
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Postby HEROHAMO » Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:23 pm

Bowe is very talented. I remember wanting us to draft him out of LSU.

He does however drop a lot of passes. Especially in crucial moments this season. His previous seasons were far better.

To be fair the Chiefs Qbs played terribly this year. Matt Cassel and Brady Quinn. Also the Chiefs now have a new head coach and they just went through a tragedy. So I would expect Bowe to come back strong.

Have no idea if the Chiefs are going to give him a new contract. Id imagine Reid would want a proven receiving threat in Bowe. Its not easy to find good wide recievers.
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Postby welch » Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:25 pm

Unfortunately, Reid is no dummy. Agree with Hero...Chiefs keep Bowe.

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Postby DarthMonk » Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:53 am

The Hogster wrote:
The balance from the Dallas game was more like what I'd prefer to see. He ran a few times when needed, and protected himself. We shouldn't stop doing that. It's what makes him so lethal. It keeps the defense's feet in quicksand.

If he runs more like he did in the Dallas game. That would put him on pace for 96 carries for the year. More importantly, he got down or out of bounds without getting hit. That is the perfect balance.


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Postby Irn-Bru » Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:27 am

DarthMonk wrote:From Boswell:

LINK

Excerpt:

How well and how much will Griffin be able to run when he returns? It matters, but maybe not a great deal. After watching him get knocked out in three of his 16 starts this season, what Redskin coach is ever again going to allow RGIII to run the ball 120 times, whether he gains 815 yards or not?

Griffin blew up his knee at Baylor, now again. What is it we don’t understand? The slim Griffin isn’t fragile, but he’s not extremely durable.

Aaron Rodgers is a mobile quarterback and an effective runner in crucial spots. He averages about 60 carries for 300 yards every year. That’s a good model. More isn’t necessary. Given RGIII’s history, more might be nuts. If a team doesn’t willfully destroy a quarterback, he should last a decade.


I agree with Hogster. Rodgers isn't a great model for how we should use Griffin: he should be a kind of baseline. Sure, Griffin should scramble when it makes sense. That's about all Rodgers does.

But when we run the read option, Griffin gains a lot of yards and always has a safe way to end the play, either by stepping out of bounds or, in a bad situation, sliding. The fact that Griffin can gash a defense running makes our overall running game much more effective.

We should limit the cutesy, trick plays from the playbook. I think Kyle found basically the right balance in the second half of the year. That's how I'd like to see Griffin used.
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Re: Facing forward

Postby Chris Luva Luva » Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:49 am

welch wrote:Let's assume that Kirk Cousins will start at QB all season in 2013. What else can we see?

welch wrote:- Rex G returns as backup

Yes.

welch wrote:- Focus on the defense...especially DBs and LBs.

Yes.

welch wrote:- A decision to be made about Fred Davis. He was good, but the Redskins won without him. Is he worth paying?

Yes. Or try to find an extremely tall TE via the draft. I'm talking 6'5.

welch wrote:- Garcon needs to get his foot healed. Best receiver in a long time

Yes.

welch wrote:- Santana might be 33 or 34 next year, but he's still sharp.

Yes.

welch wrote:- Cooley? Sadly, I can't imagine him returning.

Sadly, yes.

welch wrote:- OL took injuries and improved. Maybe the Redskins draft another lineman a few rounds down?

I think we have guys from the previous draft and the one before. However, you can't have too much depth. I think RT needs to be addressed.

welch wrote:- Defense will improve just by having Orakpo return.

And Carriker, Merriweather and Tanard. It'll improve by getting to see Minnifield in action.

welch wrote:- I hope London Fletcher returns, but I don't have to live with his pain. If he retires, hire him as a coach.

He has 1 more year left in him.

welch wrote:- Draft a safety and a linebacker. Of the current safeties, definitely keep Reed Doughty even though he's not all-pro. Still good enough to make the team

Reed truly stepped up and made me shut my mouth about him.

welch wrote:- Keep Lorenzo Alexander.

Yes.

welch wrote:- Keep D. Young. He does the job with no fussing and dramatics.

Must happen.

welch wrote:- DeAngelo Hall is good enough. Sometimes makes my head hurt, but he can play, and CB is a tough position.

Keep him if he's willing to take a pay cut.

welch wrote:- What about all the RB's not named "Morris"? Which ones are keepers?

None are must haves. Any could be replaced by another rookie. Bring em all back and let them compete. Bring Hightower back for camp.

welch wrote:What else?


I'd like to see us get faster with out front 7. We're pretty sluggish. Maybe Jenkins improves in his second year back from injury. We could use a stud NT.
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Postby DaSkinz Baby » Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:30 am

The fact of the matter is this, had RG3 not made a ROOKIE MISTAKE and turned inward and got crushed by Ngata all this probably would be a moot point. RG3 was a rookie and made a mistake. Shanahan should have IR'd him right after that game period.....It's a learning experience that may cost RG3 and the Redskins in the future. Period....

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Postby Chris Luva Luva » Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:38 am

The Hogster wrote: He ran a few times when needed, and protected himself. We shouldn't stop doing that. It's what makes him so lethal. It keeps the defense's feet in quicksand.


THAT is the key.

As you pointed out, the designed runs have him running through gaping holes. He doesn't get touched.
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Postby DaSkinz Baby » Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:54 am

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
The Hogster wrote: He ran a few times when needed, and protected himself. We shouldn't stop doing that. It's what makes him so lethal. It keeps the defense's feet in quicksand.


THAT is the key.

As you pointed out, the designed runs have him running through gaping holes. He doesn't get touched.


+1

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Postby markshark84 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:47 pm

RGIII got hurt both times from trying to get extra yards on non-designed runs. MS had stated that in the BAL game, RGIII thought that whether or not he got the first down may have been the season. On the other run, RGIII was trying to get in the endzone.

I am not sure how we can do anything to protect RGIII in those types of isolated situations other than by improving our OL. If RGIII had had adequate protection, he may not have been forced to resort to running in those 2 situations. He may have perhaps rolled out, BUT instead of running for yards, he could have taken a couple steps back and tryed to have found an open receiver.

RGIII will continue to run the ball and he has proven that he can effectively protect himself when he has been trained to. However, when he is fighting for yards, he doesn't protect himself and that is when he gets hurt. MS needs to prevent those types of situations. Now this, IMHO, is almost impossible to do since instinct takes over. Therefore, improving our OL so that he doesn't resort to instinct is the best method moving forward.
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Postby Chris Luva Luva » Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:23 pm

markshark84 wrote:If RGIII had had adequate protection, he may not have been forced to resort to running in those 2 situations.


It his own fault and he has to be smart enough to know when to live to fight another day. He has show time and time again an inability to just give up on a play. I'm hoping that his team in rehab, away from the team will finally cut that light on for him. If this doesn't, nothing will.
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Postby The Hogster » Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:04 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
markshark84 wrote:If RGIII had had adequate protection, he may not have been forced to resort to running in those 2 situations.


It his own fault and he has to be smart enough to know when to live to fight another day. He has show time and time again an inability to just give up on a play. I'm hoping that his team in rehab, away from the team will finally cut that light on for him. If this doesn't, nothing will.


The crazy thing is, early in the year, RGIII did a better job of getting down or getting out of bounds.

Against the Saints & Rams, he barely took any big hits aside from shots in the pocket. By Week 3, teams had decided to just hit him on any read option play--the Bengals hit him often, but they were cheap shots on handoffs.

In the Tampa game, RGIII put the team on his back in the 4th Qtr and only took one unnecessary shot on the last drive when he cut back into the middle of the field.

In the Atlanta game, RGIII was going out of bounds, but didn't get out fast enough. Concussion.

Against the Vikings is where I think the damage was done. RGIII carved up the Vikings. And torched them to win the game and finish with 138 yards rushing. I think he started to feel as if he had figured the game out. He was dominant, and started playing less cautious. He had after all broken several big plays with his legs and didn't even get touched!

Once he had that confidence that comes with dominating, I think he fell into a sense of security that wasn't there before. I doubt he'll continue with that mentality--especially after watching less talented QBs like Wilson and Kaepernick impresonate him minus the hard hits.
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Postby DarthMonk » Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:24 pm

markshark84 wrote:MS had stated that in the BAL game, RGIII thought that whether or not he got the first down may have been the season.


This is interesting. This was almost the time to be daring. It was 2nd and 19. When he dived he was almost 10 yards short. He ended up 6 yards short. Poor guy needed to slide on that one. Damn.

The Hogster wrote:By Week 3, teams had decided to just hit him on any read option play--the Bengals hit him often, but they were cheap shots on handoffs.


Yep. I have not really seen this happen to Wilson or Kap and it's got nothing to do with some special ability they have to avoid hits.
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Postby StorminMormon86 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:26 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:It his own fault and he has to be smart enough to know when to live to fight another day. He has show time and time again an inability to just give up on a play. I'm hoping that his team in rehab, away from the team will finally cut that light on for him. If this doesn't, nothing will.

+1

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