Challenges Ahead (Draft and Free Agency)

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Postby Chris Luva Luva » Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:21 pm

Skinsfan55 wrote:
The Hogster wrote:Who said he'd start? Who said he'd unseat Wilson or Hall? Nobody.


"We have Chase that's coming back fresh this season. If he's as good as advertised, he's starting opposite of Josh."

*sigh*


LOL, so you're getting all cranky and fussy because I'm predicting ways we can shape the roster with our in-house talent?

Isn't D. Hall playing a lot in the slot? Until we hear different, wouldn't he continue to play within the mold of Charles Woodson?

So who starts opposite of Wilson? Oh, let me guess, we should get Nmandi, right?


The Hogster wrote:
Skinsfan55 wrote:People are acting like Tanard Jackson will be a huge help when he comes back.


Who are you to say he won't?

Exactly.

You obviously aren't paying attention. Two words. Madieu Williams.


He starts a thread and then nitpicks everyone's suggestions and calls them stupid. Yet he has zero answers. :lol:
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Postby The Hogster » Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:36 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
Skinsfan55 wrote:
The Hogster wrote:Who said he'd start? Who said he'd unseat Wilson or Hall? Nobody.


"We have Chase that's coming back fresh this season. If he's as good as advertised, he's starting opposite of Josh."

*sigh*


LOL, so you're getting all cranky and fussy because I'm predicting ways we can shape the roster with our in-house talent?

Isn't D. Hall playing a lot in the slot? Until we hear different, wouldn't he continue to play within the mold of Charles Woodson?

So who starts opposite of Wilson? Oh, let me guess, we should get Nmandi, right?


The Hogster wrote:
Skinsfan55 wrote:People are acting like Tanard Jackson will be a huge help when he comes back.


Who are you to say he won't?

Exactly.

You obviously aren't paying attention. Two words. Madieu Williams.


He starts a thread and then nitpicks everyone's suggestions and calls them stupid. Yet he has zero answers. :lol:


He shouldn't even have started a thread for this crap. He says "this will be a tough offseason" then ****Crickets***


I guess he just wants to wallow in self pity before the sky falls on him. Anyone who thinks that a 10-6 record, NFC East crown with an injury depleted roster gives reason for optimism is stupid. Got it.
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Postby Skinsfan55 » Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:05 pm

I didn't know that people wouldn't even be willing to accept the fact that this offseason is going to be an uphill climb.

I mention that the secondary is a mess and I'm met with "No way! We stole Chase Minifield after the draft and he's a second round talent. If he's as good as his agent says he is then he's going to start next season!!!"

I say the offensive line needs work and I'm met with "No way dude, the line was way better than we all thought I'm sure they'll be fine! You're overreacting."

I say that we need help in the linebacker and WR corps and I get "We have Hankerson and he's obviously going to develop into a star. Orakpo will be back and I'm sure he will be healthy enough to play a full season despite evidence to the contrary.

People aren't even willing to grant the premise that this offseason is going to be damn tough. Despite the fact that has pretty much summed up the whole Shanahan era. Don't get me wrong, Mike Shanahan has done extremely well despite all the obstacles. He's pretty much deftly dealt with all the setbacks and still managed to retain the support of Dan Snyder. Just look:

2010- Shanahan takes over and makes two trades that seemed VERY sensible at the time. He traded for well respected, clubhouse leader Donovan McNabb and he traded for a Pro-Bowl tackle to start opposite recent draft pick Trent Williams.

McNabb completely imploded and dragged down the team. 2010 was mostly a lost season. But we cleaned house on guys who didn't fit the new schemes.

2011- The work stoppage hampered a lot of our offseason movements. The Redskins weren't able to be very active in free agency or make many changes to the team. The quarteback market was extremely dry and the draft was weak. The team traded back, took Ryan Kerrigan and went through the season with Rex Grossman and John Beck as starters. It was a mess and we lost a lot of games.

2012- Finally sick of many years without a solid quarterback we made a huge trade up to get RGIII. When the trade was made that was the consensus pick, it was no secret that Griffin was a Redskin the second that deal was agreed to. Then, the unthinkable happened. Like every other NFL team the Redskins restructured contracts during the uncapped year to put themselves in better position to compete in the coming years. John Mara, who has a lot of pull with Goodell tried to have draft picks stripped from the Redskins and torpedo the trade for Griffin. Luckily we were spared that, but the NFL league office leveraged the player's association to allow them to take away a HUGE amount of cap space. Only the Cowboys and Redskins were punished for this, John Mara's key rivals in the NFC East. (The fact that this was allowed to happen should outrage NFL fans, but it was more or less swept under the carpet.)

In any case, the Redskins needed to alter their FA plans, and they were not able to follow through with their offseason plans. The team largely made due with what they had, many star players were injured (including our best defensive and best offensive player from the previous season) and the team STILL won the NFC East and lost any chance they had of beating Seattle when Griffin was injured.

Now the team is going into 2013 with an injured QB, $4 million over the cap, few bad contracts, no easy way to get under the cap enough to make an impact on the market, serious needs at several key positions, and no first round pick.

Washington is in a really tough spot with their backs to the wall... and yet, we can't even discuss that because no one will take off their burgundy and gold blinders.

I'm a Washington Redskins fan, I hope Chase Minifield starts for us and gets 6 INT's and 2 FF and makes the Pro Bowl. I hope Orakpo comes back and gets 12 sacks, I hope Fred Davis re-signs and scores 9 touchdowns and goes over 1,000 yards... but wish in one hand and crap in the other. See which one fills up first.

CLL mentioned signing Nnamdi Asomugha as if doing so would be a really stupid idea. Hell, after his disasterous tenure in Philly, he's probably going to sign an incentive laden deal like LaRon Landry did with the Jets. He's probably a guy the front office should look at.

Another thing to worry about? There are many teams transitioning to the 3-4 so talent pools for 3-4 athletes are getting smaller and smaller. It's going to be harder to zero in on a guy who fits our system when so many other teams run the same system. I wish we'd take a page from teams like New England and incorporate more 4-3. Orakpo and Kerrigan both have experience at end and IIRC all of our DE's (and Cofield) have played defensive tackle in college or the pros.

In any case, the deck is stacked against the Redskins again. The team has been smart. Chris Chester was actually a really good move that many questioned at the time. They've been smart about using their personnel wisely. They've gotten the most possible from career backups like Rod Jackson and Will Montgomery... but we need them to do it again.

There's not a lot of margin for error this offseason. We need brilliance. One free agent or draft bust, another injury and we could be spinning our wheels again.
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Postby SkinsJock » Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:19 pm

:shock: you cannot make this up ...

it's certainly going to be interesting here :lol:
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Postby The Hogster » Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:51 pm

Skinsfan55 wrote:I didn't know that people wouldn't even be willing to accept the fact that this offseason is going to be an uphill climb.

I mention that the secondary is a mess and I'm met with "No way! We stole Chase Minifield after the draft and he's a second round talent. If he's as good as his agent says he is then he's going to start next season!!!"

I say the offensive line needs work and I'm met with "No way dude, the line was way better than we all thought I'm sure they'll be fine! You're overreacting."

I say that we need help in the linebacker and WR corps and I get "We have Hankerson and he's obviously going to develop into a star. Orakpo will be back and I'm sure he will be healthy enough to play a full season despite evidence to the contrary.

People aren't even willing to grant the premise that this offseason is going to be damn tough. Despite the fact that has pretty much summed up the whole Shanahan era. Don't get me wrong, Mike Shanahan has done extremely well despite all the obstacles. He's pretty much deftly dealt with all the setbacks and still managed to retain the support of Dan Snyder. Just look:

2010- Shanahan takes over and makes two trades that seemed VERY sensible at the time. He traded for well respected, clubhouse leader Donovan McNabb and he traded for a Pro-Bowl tackle to start opposite recent draft pick Trent Williams.

McNabb completely imploded and dragged down the team. 2010 was mostly a lost season. But we cleaned house on guys who didn't fit the new schemes.

2011- The work stoppage hampered a lot of our offseason movements. The Redskins weren't able to be very active in free agency or make many changes to the team. The quarteback market was extremely dry and the draft was weak. The team traded back, took Ryan Kerrigan and went through the season with Rex Grossman and John Beck as starters. It was a mess and we lost a lot of games.

2012- Finally sick of many years without a solid quarterback we made a huge trade up to get RGIII. When the trade was made that was the consensus pick, it was no secret that Griffin was a Redskin the second that deal was agreed to. Then, the unthinkable happened. Like every other NFL team the Redskins restructured contracts during the uncapped year to put themselves in better position to compete in the coming years. John Mara, who has a lot of pull with Goodell tried to have draft picks stripped from the Redskins and torpedo the trade for Griffin. Luckily we were spared that, but the NFL league office leveraged the player's association to allow them to take away a HUGE amount of cap space. Only the Cowboys and Redskins were punished for this, John Mara's key rivals in the NFC East. (The fact that this was allowed to happen should outrage NFL fans, but it was more or less swept under the carpet.)

In any case, the Redskins needed to alter their FA plans, and they were not able to follow through with their offseason plans. The team largely made due with what they had, many star players were injured (including our best defensive and best offensive player from the previous season) and the team STILL won the NFC East and lost any chance they had of beating Seattle when Griffin was injured.

Now the team is going into 2013 with an injured QB, $4 million over the cap, few bad contracts, no easy way to get under the cap enough to make an impact on the market, serious needs at several key positions, and no first round pick.

Washington is in a really tough spot with their backs to the wall... and yet, we can't even discuss that because no one will take off their burgundy and gold blinders.

I'm a Washington Redskins fan, I hope Chase Minifield starts for us and gets 6 INT's and 2 FF and makes the Pro Bowl. I hope Orakpo comes back and gets 12 sacks, I hope Fred Davis re-signs and scores 9 touchdowns and goes over 1,000 yards... but wish in one hand and crap in the other. See which one fills up first.

CLL mentioned signing Nnamdi Asomugha as if doing so would be a really stupid idea. Hell, after his disasterous tenure in Philly, he's probably going to sign an incentive laden deal like LaRon Landry did with the Jets. He's probably a guy the front office should look at.

Another thing to worry about? There are many teams transitioning to the 3-4 so talent pools for 3-4 athletes are getting smaller and smaller. It's going to be harder to zero in on a guy who fits our system when so many other teams run the same system. I wish we'd take a page from teams like New England and incorporate more 4-3. Orakpo and Kerrigan both have experience at end and IIRC all of our DE's (and Cofield) have played defensive tackle in college or the pros.

In any case, the deck is stacked against the Redskins again. The team has been smart. Chris Chester was actually a really good move that many questioned at the time. They've been smart about using their personnel wisely. They've gotten the most possible from career backups like Rod Jackson and Will Montgomery... but we need them to do it again.

There's not a lot of margin for error this offseason. We need brilliance. One free agent or draft bust, another injury and we could be spinning our wheels again.


All of these words and still not a single suggestion for how to address these "challenges." SMH

In Man Up Land we call this, WHINING
.


What we are telling you is that your perceptions are correct, but it's not as dire as you're making it out to be. We played with backup Safeties all year. We should get the starters back. Our offense was Top 5 most of the year and Garcon was injured. We also had a rookie QB. With another year of experience and development in the offense, things should get better even if no moves are made.

Yes, we need another RT, some CB help. But, we do have a talented guy on the shelf, and 7 draft picks. By the end of the draft, those 7 picks will probably net 9-10 players if they continue their trend of trading down. So stop crying already. Just because you don't have a first round pick, doesn't mean you can't find 2-3 contributors through the draft.

We just came off a year where 5 drafted rookies all contributed to WINS. RGIII, Kirk Cousins, Alfred Morris, Richard Crawford, and Josh Leribus. And, by the way, we won the NFC East. So for the love of God, stop crying.
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Postby Skinsfan55 » Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:10 pm

Who's crying? You seem to be the one resorting to name calling when someone dares mention the fact that the team faces some harsh realities next season.

You realize how incredibly rare it is to have a 4th rounder, two 6th rounders and a 3rd rounder all make major contributions to a team right? How unlikely is it that they all do so the year after they were drafted? Having a draft class this successful is equal parts luck and skill. Vince Lombardi couldn't have had a better draft. We got very lucky last season. Our backups stepped up. Our 4th round QB came up HUGE. Our 6th round back made the Pro-Bowl. Lighting doesn't usually strike twice.

The reason I am not "offering suggestions of how to address these 'challenges'" is:

You people won't even grant the premise that the Redskins are in a tough spot.

I could say that the Redskins should look into signing Chris Gamble, Champ Bailey or Nnamdi on an incentive laden deal but if you don't even recognize that banking on Chase Minnifield as a starting CB is a pipe dream then it's pointless to even try and make a logical argument. I'm apparently dealing with illogical people.

[/u]
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Salary Cap situation will limit moves

Postby Steveospeak10 » Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:03 pm

The Redskins cap situation is not nearly as good as some are suggesting. To just sign their draft picks, re-sign some UFA's and tender their restricted free agents the Redskins will need to free up over $16 million in cap room. It could be a rough free agency period and I wouldn't expect big moves.

Cap projections are from here

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Postby mastdark81 » Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:03 pm

I feel the qb position will be one in question until RG3 comes back. Interested how the Shanahans will manage a whole offseason of OTA's, Training Camp, and possibly preseason before giving the reins back to RG3. Will Grossman be retained?, will Kirk perform more read option to help transition the team to RG3?

- I say bring in a qb with similar skill set to RG3 (Josh Johnson) or an undrafted young guy and have them compete with Rex. Groom them so if RG3 goes down in the future the gameplan would not change much (within a game). Kirk would essentially be the backup if he is given a chance to prepare within a week.


I haven't heard anyone mentioning RB but I do question our depth behind Morris. Helu and Royster haven't proven to be durable...lets say Morris lengthy injury.

- Wouldn't be surprised if we bring in a rb with experience to compete with Royster and Helu. Not sure what plans they have for Keiland Williams but I think we would have seen him last year if they really felt he could play.


I agree with one of the posters, I feel that our offensive line still need work and are not solid enough in pass protection. Our schemes helped stunt those blitzes last year, however that could change this year with defenses trying to figure out that read option.

- Would go after one of the available RT's that are UFA. I believe the top 2 will be franchised (Clady, possibly Joe Thomas). We may be able to secure the Patriots tackle, however. I'm confident that one of the young guards we have could emerge or start down the road if needed.

Interesting to see how our special teams will look this year without Danny Smith. Could be better or worse. The main person I'm hoping doesn't change anything outside of kickoffs are Kai Forbath.

- Bring in competition for the aging punter Sav Rocca



i'll post on defense later...time to go home from work :)

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Postby Chris Luva Luva » Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:13 pm

Skinsfan55 wrote:Who's crying?


You are. Really, it's you that's missing the point.
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Postby The Hogster » Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:35 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
Skinsfan55 wrote:Who's crying?


You are. Really, it's you that's missing the point.


Seriously. He's in the midst of an epic fail.
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Postby Skinsfan55 » Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:40 pm

My apologies everyone. Chase Minifield will obviously win defensive MVP next season, we'll draft 3 more late round playmakers and the cap situation will magically fix itself because... it always seems to!

Everything is sunshine and rainbows here in Redskins land!

I swear to God, it's like you all have had lobotomies or something.
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Postby The Hogster » Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:50 pm

You realize how incredibly rare it is to have a 4th rounder, two 6th rounders and a 3rd rounder all make major contributions to a team right?


It's not "extremely" rare to have a 3rd rounder, 4th rounder, and 2 6th rounders contribute. In fact, it's happened on other teams more frequently than you give credit for. It hasn't happened here in DC, but that doesn't make it a "lightning" strike. It was rare for a 6h round Running back to have an All Pro season. I'll give you that. But, it's not rare to have a 3rd round lineman play significant snaps. Or a nickle corner play some. This FO has shown the ability to make good finds in the draft. They are identifying talent at schools like Southern Methodist & Nebraska. They're finding guys that fit our system and are playing well.

How unlikely is it that they all do so the year after they were drafted?

That's the point. You want to keep building your roster, so that Richard Crawford isn't a shoe-in to be the 3rd Corner Back. You want him to be in a position where he's fighting to make the team. That's called team building. Having talent at all positions, and the best guy wins. If the best 3rd Corner is currently in college, then so be it.

Having a draft class this successful is equal parts luck and skill. Vince Lombardi couldn't have had a better draft.


Dude the entire NFL draft is part luck and part skill. But, it ain't equal parts. If you have good people evaluating the talent, then it's more parts skill than luck. Ask Ozzie Newsome.

We got very lucky last season. Our backups stepped up. Our 4th round QB came up HUGE. Our 6th round back made the Pro-Bowl. Lighting doesn't usually strike twice.


That's not lightning. It's drafting. Something we haven't done well prior to the Allen/Shanahan tandem.

The reason I am not "offering suggestions of how to address these 'challenges'" is:

You people won't even grant the premise that the Redskins are in a tough spot.


Cop out. You obviously have no ideas. This is just therapeutic for you I guess.

I could say that the Redskins should look into signing Chris Gamble, Champ Bailey or Nnamdi on an incentive laden deal but if you don't even recognize that banking on Chase Minnifield as a starting CB is a pipe dream then it's pointless to even try and make a logical argument. I'm apparently dealing with illogical people.


None of those players is going to take an "incentive laden deal." They're corners. One of the highest paid positions in the league. This suggestion in and of itself is a pipe dream.

For the last time. Nobody is penciling in Chase Minnifield as a given. The caveat is IF HE IS HEALTHY. What part of that don't you understand? If he's fully recovered from micro fracture surgery, then you better bet that he's pushing Crawford for playing time. But who knows who we draft. That 3rd corner may not even be on the team yet.


Take a few deep breaths, then a nap. The sky is not falling.
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Postby Deadskins » Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:09 pm

Skinsfan55 wrote:People aren't even willing to grant the premise that this offseason is going to be damn tough.

Why should they? The only thing tough about this off-season is the waiting to see our team playing football again.
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Postby Deadskins » Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:18 pm

Skinsfan55 wrote: Our 6th round back made the Pro-Bowl.

Um, no, he didn't. He should have, but nope.
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Postby The Hogster » Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:23 pm

Skinsfan55 wrote:My apologies everyone. Chase Minifield will obviously win defensive MVP next season, we'll draft 3 more late round playmakers and the cap situation will magically fix itself because... it always seems to!

Everything is sunshine and rainbows here in Redskins land!

I swear to God, it's like you all have had lobotomies or something.


You're right. It's panic time. It's not like we won the NFC East or anything. I mean, I could see if we won the NFC East with a roster full of fill-ins and rookies. But, we just went 0-16 and have no draft picks and no money.

Don't worry Skinsfan55. Help is on the way.

Image[img]

Seriously, get yourself together.[/img]
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