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DarthMonk
DarthMonk
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 3238
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| markshark84 wrote: | | If you support the positions you take with logic and background as to why you believe them, people may disagree but they won't call you out. |
Mostly true!  |
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Countertrey
the 'mudge
Joined: 09 Jan 2004
Posts: 12783
Location: Curmudgeon Corner, Maine
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| markshark84 wrote: | | Skinsfan55 wrote: | | Chris Luva Luva wrote: | | Skinsfan55 wrote: | | It's funny because I sent a friend of mine a link to this thread. This friend is not a Redskins fan and he read through the responses and he was like "So are all Redskins fans in denial?" |
So at least you two have something in common. |
That's the worst thing about THN, anyone who doesn't wear Redskins colored glasses is accused of not being a fan. For my entire time here I've seen everyone who disagrees with a move, a hiring, or questions the direction of the team get told they're not a true fan.
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Honestly, I am one of the bigger non-B&G kool-aid drinkers on this board and I have never been called out as not being a fan. I have been called ignorant by some "misinformed" posters, but never as not being a skins fan.
Back in 2008 I was getting slammed by basically everyone on this board because it was my opinion that Jason Campbell wasn't a starting calibur QB ---- but no one said I wasn't a fan.
If you support the positions you take with logic and background as to why you believe them, people may disagree but they won't call you out.
If you think we are in a bad position because of the cap, why? Give us numbers, details, not just a generalization. How much do we have against the cap, what do players/position do we need, how much it will cost, which current FA players fit, etc. If you just generalize something or an idea, as it appears you have, you will be called out. Supporting your position is key in this forum. |
... all due respect to DarthMonk, but... ^^ THIS! |
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Chris Luva Luva
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Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 17816
Location: AJT
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| markshark84 wrote: | | If you just generalize something or an idea, as it appears you have, you will be called out. Supporting your position is key in this forum. |
So not only did he not do wut u said, but people provided those requirements for him and he mocked them.
Then...  , he confers with his non-skin-fan-friend, as if it brought some level of confirmation to his stance.
Nobody was seriously calling him out, but I just found that hilarious. Hey guys! I just showed me coworker this thread and he agrees with everyone but SF55!! Our argument is now legit! |
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HTTRRG3ALMO
Hog
Joined: 01 Jan 2013
Posts: 506
Location: Washington, DC
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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Look most of us here understand where you're coming from. Its just you're having such a massive gloom and doom attitude about it that its difficult not to take a couple shots at you...for me its all in good fun.
I don't question your status as a fan, I just think you need to take a deep breathe and remember that the staff has ALWAYS been great with cap space. Yeah yeah I know this is one of the "worst" but we are already getting back 1.1 mil today and players are already agreeing on contract restructures.
With our needs to at least match what we did last year, the 2013 draft is SATURATED with our needs. First round picks aren't even necessary...there's plenty of secondary talent that is already better than what we had to work with last year hitting a 10-6 record.
We're not losing the entire team...we have a couple players in which a small few can be considered elite. Other than that, you have some pretty good players that lack consistency whether on the field in play or being injury prone.
My opinion has been shifted a bit on Hall. I'm curious to see what he can do with a really good safety helping him. Shoot, I'd like to see what he could do as a safety.
The secondary personnel coming back from injury may not have proven themselves as elite just yet, but COMPARED to what we had to work with last year and STILL WIN...they are MASSIVE upgrades.
I've been really stoked about getting better WRs in the near future, but if we were to say, re-sign Davis, he doesn't have much negotiating power with his recent issues. I believe we'll get a bargain for him.
Also keep in mind that football players want to win Superbowls. Teammates are already talking about contract restructures, there is a new energy in DC with RG3, Morris, and Cousins...players are going to WANT to stay with Washington.
Why? Very simple, very few players in the Skins FA are elite. Again, few ARE IMO, but most of them will probably get signed to desperate teams. Desperate = they suck. Why would MOST of them want to be unrealistic and get shipped off to some crappy team.
Even if they do, our coaching staff showed us last year that they can make decent lemonade out of some sour @$$ lemons. Corny phrasing, but undeniably true.
Ask Tony Romo if our crappy secondary completely sucked towards the end of the year. Good God if they can do that with those group of clowns, imagine if just had TWO...THAT'S IT JUST TWO upgrades in our secondary.
Chill-lax my friend. Worst case, we deal with an average year in 2013, then its payback time in 2014. I waited 21yrs for a dominating team, one more year isn't going to kill me. |
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PulpExposure
Pushing Paper
Joined: 06 Sep 2005
Posts: 4461
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| If it helps, just read we can carry over the $4.7 million in cap space from last year to help out (so that 18 mill penalty is more like 13.3 million). |
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ACW
Hog
Joined: 22 Jun 2012
Posts: 755
Location: Arlington, VA (Ballston)
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| PulpExposure wrote: | | If it helps, just read we can carry over the $4.7 million in cap space from last year to help out (so that 18 mill penalty is more like 13.3 million). |
And now 12.2 thanks to Jammal's contract voiding. |
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HTTRRG3ALMO
Hog
Joined: 01 Jan 2013
Posts: 506
Location: Washington, DC
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| ACW wrote: | | PulpExposure wrote: | | If it helps, just read we can carry over the $4.7 million in cap space from last year to help out (so that 18 mill penalty is more like 13.3 million). |
And now 12.2 thanks to Jammal's contract voiding. |
See thinking more positive already  |
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yupchagee
#14
Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 4125
Location: Louisville KY
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Skinsfan55 wrote: | | People are acting like Tanard Jackson will be a huge help when he comes back. He was suspended indefinitely. He might not BE back. He's eligible for reinstatement at the end of August and I don't know if he'll be allowed to practice until then. So the best case scenario would be reinstatement at the beginning of September with no OTA's, offseason workouts etc. |
He won't be allowed any contact with us till the end of Aug at the earliest. Just on that basis, I don't see him contributing this year. |
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The Hogster
#######
Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 7013
Location: Washington D.C.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:54 am Post subject: |
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This article breaks down player by player their cap number, and how cutting or restructuring the contract would results in $29M in cap savings. We need to get down by $16.6M, leaving us with $12M to spend in free agency.
Or, according to Skinsfan55 this is Skyfall 2013.
Players Who Can Be Restructured and/or Extended
http://fanspeak.com/washingtonredskins/2013/02/08/washington-redskins-extension-and-restructure-candidates/
Players Who Can Be Cut for Savings
http://fanspeak.com/washingtonredskins/2013/02/08/washington-redskins-cap-savings/
Summary of the Author
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Overall Savings Prediction:
Cuts: Hall, Brown, and Carriker for $12.05 million
Restructuring: $12.355 million (I would end up restructuring all of Garcon, T. Williams, Cofield, Bowen, Chester)
Extensions: $3.887 (Orakpo and Wilson)
*Fletcher and Moss to me are real wild cards here and depending on what happens could jump the Redskins cap savings between $2-8.5 million. Remember though either leaving creates more holes on this team.
Total savings: $28.292
Cap Space: $11.634 million
I know that $11.6 million sounds like a lot, but the Redskins need to be really smart with it. Remember the Redskins added $5 million to their cap in 2014 (and that doesn’t include the extra money in extensions to Wilson and Orakpo), with the restructuring of contracts. Also remember some of that $11.6 million will be taken up by the guys who take the place of Hall, Brown and Carriker in the top 51 contracts of the team. The Redskins would be wise to look for values as opposed to grabbing the first free agent or two on their wish list. If they spend all that money on guys who are signed beyond this year they could quickly have some more cap issues in the coming years.
This cap room gives the Redskins the breathing room they need, and an ability to add some talent and depth to this team, but it absolutely should not be an invitation for the Redskins to have a major spending spree.
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ACW
Hog
Joined: 22 Jun 2012
Posts: 755
Location: Arlington, VA (Ballston)
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:43 am Post subject: |
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| Don't like cutting Carriker AT ALL. |
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Skinsfan55
+++++++++
Joined: 04 Feb 2004
Posts: 5261
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:02 am Post subject: |
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| The Hogster wrote: | This article breaks down player by player their cap number, and how cutting or restructuring the contract would results in $29M in cap savings. We need to get down by $16.6M, leaving us with $12M to spend in free agency.
Or, according to Skinsfan55 this is Skyfall 2013.
Players Who Can Be Restructured and/or Extended
http://fanspeak.com/washingtonredskins/2013/02/08/washington-redskins-extension-and-restructure-candidates/
Players Who Can Be Cut for Savings
http://fanspeak.com/washingtonredskins/2013/02/08/washington-redskins-cap-savings/
Summary of the Author
| Quote: |
Overall Savings Prediction:
Cuts: Hall, Brown, and Carriker for $12.05 million
Restructuring: $12.355 million (I would end up restructuring all of Garcon, T. Williams, Cofield, Bowen, Chester)
Extensions: $3.887 (Orakpo and Wilson)
*Fletcher and Moss to me are real wild cards here and depending on what happens could jump the Redskins cap savings between $2-8.5 million. Remember though either leaving creates more holes on this team.
Total savings: $28.292
Cap Space: $11.634 million
I know that $11.6 million sounds like a lot, but the Redskins need to be really smart with it. Remember the Redskins added $5 million to their cap in 2014 (and that doesn’t include the extra money in extensions to Wilson and Orakpo), with the restructuring of contracts. Also remember some of that $11.6 million will be taken up by the guys who take the place of Hall, Brown and Carriker in the top 51 contracts of the team. The Redskins would be wise to look for values as opposed to grabbing the first free agent or two on their wish list. If they spend all that money on guys who are signed beyond this year they could quickly have some more cap issues in the coming years.
This cap room gives the Redskins the breathing room they need, and an ability to add some talent and depth to this team, but it absolutely should not be an invitation for the Redskins to have a major spending spree.
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I've already read that article. Funny how the author makes the same exact points I did and he's right on and I'm chicken little worrying about the sky falling down. You guys are too much.
Did you look at his report and see what he said the Redskins need to do to get that 11 million in space? Let Fred Davis go in free agency, get a ton of players to re-structure, etc. etc.
Fact is, none of that is a sure thing and the team faces some tough questions about who is going to go, who is going to stay and they can't make a mistake in free agency. They have to be 100% on point. I never said they couldn't do that, or that they wouldn't do that. On the contrary I said the Shanahan Era has been marked by similar hurdles. |
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The Hogster
#######
Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 7013
Location: Washington D.C.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:47 am Post subject: |
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| Skinsfan55 wrote: | | The Hogster wrote: | This article breaks down player by player their cap number, and how cutting or restructuring the contract would results in $29M in cap savings. We need to get down by $16.6M, leaving us with $12M to spend in free agency.
Or, according to Skinsfan55 this is Skyfall 2013.
Players Who Can Be Restructured and/or Extended
http://fanspeak.com/washingtonredskins/2013/02/08/washington-redskins-extension-and-restructure-candidates/
Players Who Can Be Cut for Savings
http://fanspeak.com/washingtonredskins/2013/02/08/washington-redskins-cap-savings/
Summary of the Author
| Quote: |
Overall Savings Prediction:
Cuts: Hall, Brown, and Carriker for $12.05 million
Restructuring: $12.355 million (I would end up restructuring all of Garcon, T. Williams, Cofield, Bowen, Chester)
Extensions: $3.887 (Orakpo and Wilson)
*Fletcher and Moss to me are real wild cards here and depending on what happens could jump the Redskins cap savings between $2-8.5 million. Remember though either leaving creates more holes on this team.
Total savings: $28.292
Cap Space: $11.634 million
I know that $11.6 million sounds like a lot, but the Redskins need to be really smart with it. Remember the Redskins added $5 million to their cap in 2014 (and that doesn’t include the extra money in extensions to Wilson and Orakpo), with the restructuring of contracts. Also remember some of that $11.6 million will be taken up by the guys who take the place of Hall, Brown and Carriker in the top 51 contracts of the team. The Redskins would be wise to look for values as opposed to grabbing the first free agent or two on their wish list. If they spend all that money on guys who are signed beyond this year they could quickly have some more cap issues in the coming years.
This cap room gives the Redskins the breathing room they need, and an ability to add some talent and depth to this team, but it absolutely should not be an invitation for the Redskins to have a major spending spree.
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I've already read that article. Funny how the author makes the same exact points I did and he's right on and I'm chicken little worrying about the sky falling down. You guys are too much.
Did you look at his report and see what he said the Redskins need to do to get that 11 million in space? Let Fred Davis go in free agency, get a ton of players to re-structure, etc. etc.
Fact is, none of that is a sure thing and the team faces some tough questions about who is going to go, who is going to stay and they can't make a mistake in free agency. They have to be 100% on point. I never said they couldn't do that, or that they wouldn't do that. On the contrary I said the Shanahan Era has been marked by similar hurdles. |
Did you also see how releasing Moss would free up additional money? Put simply, if you look at this situation realistically, someone who is a contributor is going to be let go. My guess is that it's Moss.
I personally want us to keep Moss, Hall, Davis & Carriker. But, the business is the business, and probably 2 of those guys are gone, possibly 3. I don't think there is any way that we let Davis walk. He's a Top 5 TE and opens up things on our offense that aren't there without him.
All in all, the author of this article is not making the same points you're making. He's actually offering FACTS & SUGGESTIONS for how the Redskins can weather this offseason and still 1) retain Free Agents, 2) tender RFAs, & 3) sign draft picks. He says that it's going to be tough, just like we ALL agree. An $18M cap penalty would be tough on anyone. But, it's not impossible. And, we are already building on a competitive team.
Not to mention, as some of us have tried to tell you--we have some guys returning from injury at crucial positions of need. Free and Strong Safety.
That's why your hissy fit is getting reamed. Not because of your underlying point, but your over reaction to it. |
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Skinsfan55
+++++++++
Joined: 04 Feb 2004
Posts: 5261
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:06 am Post subject: |
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The author specifically says that cutting Davis is part of his plan for shaping the roster and saving cap space. That's what I mean about making tough decisions. I think Fred Davis is awesome, and the offense is better with a star tight end, but business is business.
We have guys returning from injury which is good, but Minnifield, Meriweather and Griffin don't seem like difference makers. The author is saying we'd need to cut a LOT of guys to make this happen. Losing Davis, Moss, Hall, Carriker... like I said, extremely tough choices. (But oh no, I'm overreacting and I should just feel all warm and fuzzy and stop worrying.)
The Redskins cannot make mistakes this offseason and they are going to have to bargain hunt. In a league where more and more teams are switching to the 3-4 and diamonds in the rough are increasingly hard to come by... it's going to be hard and we'll probably sign a few guys who don't look like much on paper.
Guys like Ryan Harris. I would love if we signed him. We're probably the only place in the league that could offer him a starting job and we might get him for cheap. Also, if we cut Hall and Fletcher we'll open two big holes on D. Maybe get Leodis McKelvin in there at CB or something. Basically, we need them to hit paydirt again like they they got Josh Wilson. Then, we need to find a ILB. Perry Riley was great this year, it's awesome to see a former 4th rounder develop into a productive, everyday player... but how do we replace a guy like Fletcher on the cheap?
Lots of tough calls with no easy answers but I'm cautiously optimistic. |
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Deadskins
JSPB22
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
Posts: 14754
Location: Location, LOCATION!
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| Skinsfan55 wrote: |
| Quote: |
Overall Savings Prediction:
Cuts: Hall, Brown, and Carriker for $12.05 million
Restructuring: $12.355 million (I would end up restructuring all of Garcon, T. Williams, Cofield, Bowen, Chester)
Extensions: $3.887 (Orakpo and Wilson) |
I've already read that article. Funny how the author makes the same exact points I did and he's right on and I'm chicken little worrying about the sky falling down. You guys are too much.
Did you look at his report and see what he said the Redskins need to do to get that 11 million in space? Let Fred Davis go in free agency, get a ton of players to re-structure, etc. etc. |
What are you reading? First, the author actually gives moves that would save money, something you never did, and the reason given multiple times for the criticisms of your posts in this thread. Second, Davis was not mentioned as one of the cuts. Third, five contract renegotiations is not a "ton."  |
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1niksder
**********
Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Posts: 16591
Location: If I knew ... it would explain a lot but I've seen Homerville on a map, that wasn't helpful at all
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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| The Hogster wrote: |
I personally want us to keep Moss, Hall, Davis & Carriker. But, the business is the business, and probably 2 of those guys are gone, possibly 3. I don't think there is any way that we let Davis walk. He's a Top 5 TE and opens up things on our offense that aren't there without him.
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I can see all 4 returning... |
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