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skinsfan#33
#33
Joined: 24 Jul 2004
Posts: 3876
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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Has Davis played two full seasons in a row yet. Has he ever finished in the top ten a TE? I like Davis, but he is no where near elite. He is a good player, not even a very good player. He can run fast, but it's stiff in the hips and had a hard time shifting to a poorly thrown ball. He is a good number for a team that can't do better. I doubt he will draw a lot of interest on the market and should only be brought back at a well below top 5 TE salary level. He is a mid range player at his position and should be paid as such.
If someone wants to pay him anywhere close to elite level congratulate him and wish him well. There are plenty of players of his caliber available. |
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HTTRRG3ALMO
Hog
Joined: 01 Jan 2013
Posts: 506
Location: Washington, DC
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| skinsfan#33 wrote: | Has Davis played two full seasons in a row yet. Has he ever finished in the top ten a TE? I like Davis, but he is no where near elite. He is a good player, not even a very good player. He can run fast, but it's stiff in the hips and had a hard time shifting to a poorly thrown ball. He is a good number for a team that can't do better. I doubt he will draw a lot of interest on the market and should only be brought back at a well below top 5 TE salary level. He is a mid range player at his position and should be paid as such.
If someone wants to pay him anywhere close to elite level congratulate him and wish him well. There are plenty of players of his caliber available. |
I agree with this. I mean the inability to play two full years in a row is a major red flag. I've gone back and forth about Davis but I believe this is where I stand from here on.
As another contributor said, I'd be ok with an incentive laden contract with a low pay based on his issues/inability to play a full season.
After that, see if we can find his replacement in the draft and if that replacement is better by far, cut Davis. |
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emoses14
Hog
Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 1513
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| HTTRRG3ALMO wrote: | | skinsfan#33 wrote: | Has Davis played two full seasons in a row yet. Has he ever finished in the top ten a TE? I like Davis, but he is no where near elite. He is a good player, not even a very good player. He can run fast, but it's stiff in the hips and had a hard time shifting to a poorly thrown ball. He is a good number for a team that can't do better. I doubt he will draw a lot of interest on the market and should only be brought back at a well below top 5 TE salary level. He is a mid range player at his position and should be paid as such.
If someone wants to pay him anywhere close to elite level congratulate him and wish him well. There are plenty of players of his caliber available. |
I agree with this. I mean the inability to play two full years in a row is a major red flag. I've gone back and forth about Davis but I believe this is where I stand from here on.
As another contributor said, I'd be ok with an incentive laden contract with a low pay based on his issues/inability to play a full season.
After that, see if we can find his replacement in the draft and if that replacement is better by far, cut Davis. |
I don't understand this willingness to unload Davis. The guy is very good and very young and we'll get him on the cheap because I agree that his stats are not indicative of his ability, YET. The best thing about griffin is his ability not to lock in on just one receiver and to spread the ball around. Davis' production prior to the Achilles (a freak, not injury prone, injury, by the way) was tops on the team. Hell he was 5th on the team in receiving and played less than half the games! He was 12th in TEs in 2011 with a 4 game suspension.
Speaking if which, didn't he only not play a full compliment of games last year because he was suspended? So he has played three straight full seasons 09, 10 and 11. After all I take the question "has he even played 2 full seasons to be some sort of shot at his durability. And in 08, his rookie year, he wasn't hurt, he was stupid and that's why he only played 11. So he's been hurt exactly once.
Last edited by emoses14 on Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:39 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Deadskins
JSPB22
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
Posts: 14756
Location: Location, LOCATION!
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:33 am Post subject: |
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| emoses14 wrote: | | The best thing about griffin is his ability not to lock in on just one receiver and to spread the ball around. |
That's a very good thing, but not the best. The best thing is that he doesn't turn the ball over. |
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crazyhorse1
ch1
Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 3558
Location: virginia beach
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| emoses14 wrote: | | HTTRRG3ALMO wrote: | | skinsfan#33 wrote: | Has Davis played two full seasons in a row yet. Has he ever finished in the top ten a TE? I like Davis, but he is no where near elite. He is a good player, not even a very good player. He can run fast, but it's stiff in the hips and had a hard time shifting to a poorly thrown ball. He is a good number for a team that can't do better. I doubt he will draw a lot of interest on the market and should only be brought back at a well below top 5 TE salary level. He is a mid range player at his position and should be paid as such.
If someone wants to pay him anywhere close to elite level congratulate him and wish him well. There are plenty of players of his caliber available. |
I agree with this. I mean the inability to play two full years in a row is a major red flag. I've gone back and forth about Davis but I believe this is where I stand from here on.
As another contributor said, I'd be ok with an incentive laden contract with a low pay based on his issues/inability to play a full season.
After that, see if we can find his replacement in the draft and if that replacement is better by far, cut Davis. |
I don't understand this willingness to unload Davis. The guy is very good and very young and we'll get him on the cheap because I agree that his stats are not indicative of his ability, YET. The best thing about griffin is his ability not to lock in on just one receiver and to spread the ball around. Davis' production prior to the Achilles (a freak, not injury prone, injury, by the way) was tops on the team. Hell he was 5th on the team in receiving and played less than half the games! He was 12th in TEs in 2011 with a 4 game suspension.
Speaking if which, didn't he only not play a full compliment of games last year because he was suspended? So he has played three straight full seasons 09, 10 and 11. After all I take the question "has he even played 2 full seasons to be some sort of shot at his durability. And in 08, his rookie year, he wasn't hurt, he was stupid and that's why he only played 11. So he's been hurt exactly once. |
Every year it seems that deficit hawks on this site become money conscious and want to unload our best talent, as if we could afford to lose any. Here's the fact. We have gaping holes and talent shortages at key positions, one of them being tight end (without Davis). We are not a shoo in even to repeat as division champs, in fact probably won't, unless we have a terrific off-season. Our DB's suck, more or less, and the offensive line can only be said to be strong at two positions. On defense, we can't rush the passer unless we blitz. We also need another productive WR to go with Garcon and have to pray Moss makes it through another season. Further, without RG3 posing a dual threat and better receivers, Morris' yardage will go down considerably. We are champs by a shoe string and some flukey wins which may not happen again. Getting rid of Davis is one of the most absurd things we can do. Akin to Republicans trying to make the economy grow by firing people from their jobs. Austerity does not produce Super Bowls. |
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Irn-Bru
FanFromAnnapolis
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 10637
Location: on the bandwagon
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| emoses14 wrote: | | HTTRRG3ALMO wrote: | | skinsfan#33 wrote: | Has Davis played two full seasons in a row yet. Has he ever finished in the top ten a TE? I like Davis, but he is no where near elite. He is a good player, not even a very good player. He can run fast, but it's stiff in the hips and had a hard time shifting to a poorly thrown ball. He is a good number for a team that can't do better. I doubt he will draw a lot of interest on the market and should only be brought back at a well below top 5 TE salary level. He is a mid range player at his position and should be paid as such.
If someone wants to pay him anywhere close to elite level congratulate him and wish him well. There are plenty of players of his caliber available. |
I agree with this. I mean the inability to play two full years in a row is a major red flag. I've gone back and forth about Davis but I believe this is where I stand from here on.
As another contributor said, I'd be ok with an incentive laden contract with a low pay based on his issues/inability to play a full season.
After that, see if we can find his replacement in the draft and if that replacement is better by far, cut Davis. |
I don't understand this willingness to unload Davis. The guy is very good and very young and we'll get him on the cheap because I agree that his stats are not indicative of his ability, YET. The best thing about griffin is his ability not to lock in on just one receiver and to spread the ball around. Davis' production prior to the Achilles (a freak, not injury prone, injury, by the way) was tops on the team. Hell he was 5th on the team in receiving and played less than half the games! He was 12th in TEs in 2011 with a 4 game suspension.
Speaking if which, didn't he only not play a full compliment of games last year because he was suspended? So he has played three straight full seasons 09, 10 and 11. After all I take the question "has he even played 2 full seasons to be some sort of shot at his durability. And in 08, his rookie year, he wasn't hurt, he was stupid and that's why he only played 11. So he's been hurt exactly once. |
Yep. Big difference between a pot-use suspension and Achilles heel tear and a guy who is, e.g., having chronic problems on the same knee. Davis has definitely proved he can produce and he will not have to sign an incentive-laden contract to get paid a decent amount. His suspension and injury will keep him from getting top-5 TE money, but the Redskins should not be low balling him either. He will be a key player on next year's team. |
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Countertrey
the 'mudge
Joined: 09 Jan 2004
Posts: 12784
Location: Curmudgeon Corner, Maine
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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| crazyhorse1 wrote: | | emoses14 wrote: | | HTTRRG3ALMO wrote: | | skinsfan#33 wrote: | Has Davis played two full seasons in a row yet. Has he ever finished in the top ten a TE? I like Davis, but he is no where near elite. He is a good player, not even a very good player. He can run fast, but it's stiff in the hips and had a hard time shifting to a poorly thrown ball. He is a good number for a team that can't do better. I doubt he will draw a lot of interest on the market and should only be brought back at a well below top 5 TE salary level. He is a mid range player at his position and should be paid as such.
If someone wants to pay him anywhere close to elite level congratulate him and wish him well. There are plenty of players of his caliber available. |
I agree with this. I mean the inability to play two full years in a row is a major red flag. I've gone back and forth about Davis but I believe this is where I stand from here on.
As another contributor said, I'd be ok with an incentive laden contract with a low pay based on his issues/inability to play a full season.
After that, see if we can find his replacement in the draft and if that replacement is better by far, cut Davis. |
I don't understand this willingness to unload Davis. The guy is very good and very young and we'll get him on the cheap because I agree that his stats are not indicative of his ability, YET. The best thing about griffin is his ability not to lock in on just one receiver and to spread the ball around. Davis' production prior to the Achilles (a freak, not injury prone, injury, by the way) was tops on the team. Hell he was 5th on the team in receiving and played less than half the games! He was 12th in TEs in 2011 with a 4 game suspension.
Speaking if which, didn't he only not play a full compliment of games last year because he was suspended? So he has played three straight full seasons 09, 10 and 11. After all I take the question "has he even played 2 full seasons to be some sort of shot at his durability. And in 08, his rookie year, he wasn't hurt, he was stupid and that's why he only played 11. So he's been hurt exactly once. |
Every year it seems that deficit hawks on this site become money conscious and want to unload our best talent, as if we could afford to lose any. Here's the fact. We have gaping holes and talent shortages at key positions, one of them being tight end (without Davis). We are not a shoo in even to repeat as division champs, in fact probably won't, unless we have a terrific off-season. Our DB's suck, more or less, and the offensive line can only be said to be strong at two positions. On defense, we can't rush the passer unless we blitz. We also need another productive WR to go with Garcon and have to pray Moss makes it through another season. Further, without RG3 posing a dual threat and better receivers, Morris' yardage will go down considerably. We are champs by a shoe string and some flukey wins which may not happen again. Getting rid of Davis is one of the most absurd things we can do. Akin to Republicans trying to make the economy grow by firing people from their jobs. Austerity does not produce Super Bowls. |
Your political delusions aside... you are dead on about the foolishness of those who don't see Davis for what he is... a reliable and dangerous weapon, who, teamed with Garcon and a healthy Morgan, will create an exceptionally dangerous set of receivers. |
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HTTRRG3ALMO
Hog
Joined: 01 Jan 2013
Posts: 506
Location: Washington, DC
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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| emoses14 wrote: | | HTTRRG3ALMO wrote: | | skinsfan#33 wrote: | Has Davis played two full seasons in a row yet. Has he ever finished in the top ten a TE? I like Davis, but he is no where near elite. He is a good player, not even a very good player. He can run fast, but it's stiff in the hips and had a hard time shifting to a poorly thrown ball. He is a good number for a team that can't do better. I doubt he will draw a lot of interest on the market and should only be brought back at a well below top 5 TE salary level. He is a mid range player at his position and should be paid as such.
If someone wants to pay him anywhere close to elite level congratulate him and wish him well. There are plenty of players of his caliber available. |
I agree with this. I mean the inability to play two full years in a row is a major red flag. I've gone back and forth about Davis but I believe this is where I stand from here on.
As another contributor said, I'd be ok with an incentive laden contract with a low pay based on his issues/inability to play a full season.
After that, see if we can find his replacement in the draft and if that replacement is better by far, cut Davis. |
I don't understand this willingness to unload Davis. The guy is very good and very young and we'll get him on the cheap because I agree that his stats are not indicative of his ability, YET. The best thing about griffin is his ability not to lock in on just one receiver and to spread the ball around. Davis' production prior to the Achilles (a freak, not injury prone, injury, by the way) was tops on the team. @#!*% he was 5th on the team in receiving and played less than half the games! He was 12th in TEs in 2011 with a 4 game suspension.
Speaking if which, didn't he only not play a full compliment of games last year because he was suspended? So he has played three straight full seasons 09, 10 and 11. After all I take the question "has he even played 2 full seasons to be some sort of shot at his durability. And in 08, his rookie year, he wasn't hurt, he was stupid and that's why he only played 11. So he's been hurt exactly once. |
If he's cheap, go for it. My concern is wasting money on him with our limited cap. If he isn't an issue there, that's worth the risk to me. If he's putting in a half decent hit, I'm not for it. |
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skinsfan#33
#33
Joined: 24 Jul 2004
Posts: 3876
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Irn-Bru wrote: |
His suspension and injury will keep him from getting top-5 TE money, but the Redskins should not be low balling him either. He will be a key player on next year's team. |
His not having top 5 talent will keep him from getting top 5 talent money. The injury (just as bad as what RG3 had) and the suspension will not help his cause, but the main reason will be the fact that he isn't a top 5 guy.
He isn't Cooley in his prime. The guy has never produced at any where near elite level for an entire year. He is simply a good player that can't get on the field because there was a better guy, or couldn't stay on the field because he was getting suspended or injured.
Bring him back If he can be had at or below market value, but don't pay 1 cent more. He simply won't have a large market. He is unreliable and nothing special. I'm sure a TE with his talent level can be had on the 4th or 5th round or on the second wave of free agency (you know a week or two after all the high price FA have signed and teams start signing bargains). I could name a couple dozen TEs that would give you better performance or at least comparable.
I would like to keep him but won't shed a tear if he goes. |
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langleyparkjoe
**LPJ**
Joined: 05 Oct 2007
Posts: 6011
Location: Langley Park, MD *Tick Tock*
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:30 am Post subject: |
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Resign him IMO, let's see what he can do while 100% healthy with RG3 and Garcon out there. I don't think we'll get fair trade value for him because he's coming off that injury. I'm all for the youth movement and Davis (assuming he's healthy) is still young and with other young players I think we'll see an even better more explosive offense.
Imagine.. Garcon, Moss, Davis, Robinson, Morgan on a 5 WR set with RG3 at the controls
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cowboykillerzRGiii
CKRGiii
Joined: 29 Jul 2010
Posts: 3165
Location: 505 New Mexico repn
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| langleyparkjoe wrote: | Resign him IMO, let's see what he can do while 100% healthy with RG3 and Garcon out there. I don't think we'll get fair trade value for him because he's coming off that injury. I'm all for the youth movement and Davis (assuming he's healthy) is still young and with other young players I think we'll see an even better more explosive offense.
Imagine.. Garcon, Moss, Davis, Robinson, Morgan on a 5 WR set with RG3 at the controls
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Pretty much how I see it aswell.. era one is quick to forget the year he was having before injury... And the chemistry he had with RGiii. Week one was the only time we saw the O healthy. And, huh, they looked pretty damn good! |
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Chris Luva Luva
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Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 17816
Location: AJT
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:36 am Post subject: |
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The FO isn't dumb enough to just cast him away as some here have suggested. Basically by saying that we should only sign him "for cheap".
I think FFA has the right idea. |
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HTTRRG3ALMO
Hog
Joined: 01 Jan 2013
Posts: 506
Location: Washington, DC
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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I'd try to shop Davis to see what draft pick(s) teams would offer for him.
Three obvious problems though:
1. He's still injured
2. He has a chance of becoming a FA anyway
3. Previous suspensions
Wonder if there are any teams desperate enough in their TE depth that they would need Davis.
That said, the three main issues may very make my comment a waste of board space. |
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Irn-Bru
FanFromAnnapolis
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 10637
Location: on the bandwagon
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| skinsfan#33 wrote: | | Bring him back If he can be had at or below market value, but don't pay 1 cent more. |
I hope you realize that his market value, what teams will pay him for, is probably in the top 10-15 range, if not higher. That's why the Redskins had to use the franchise tag last year, to keep him from testing the market. Are you going to be upset if we sign him for close to his actual market value?
| Quote: | | He simply won't have a large market. He is unreliable and nothing special. I'm sure a TE with his talent level can be had on the 4th or 5th round or on the second wave of free agency (you know a week or two after all the high price FA have signed and teams start signing bargains). I could name a couple dozen TEs that would give you better performance or at least comparable. |
This is an exagerration at best. You could replace Davis with a 5th round pick? You can name 25 tight ends that could do better?
I guess I should take these claims with a grain of salt. Weren't you saying that Cooley was going to be a top 5 TE before we cut him this year, and then claimed he could start on most NFL teams after that? It's pretty clear you are pretty far afield from what the stats and personnel pros think at this point. |
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Chris Luva Luva
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Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 17816
Location: AJT
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| Irn-Bru wrote: | | I guess I should take these claims with a grain of salt |
Exactly ONE grain. No more than that. |
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