Redskins Offseason Resignings

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Postby frankcal20 » Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:47 pm

I have to ask this question since we want other players to come in but who are we going to cut to bring in a player who's going to need roughly $4-$6m per year? I don't think we can restructure anyone to create roughly $10m to sign those two players. Also, keep in mind we need money to sign our rookies too.

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Postby HTTRRG3ALMO » Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:07 pm

SkinsJock wrote:there's 2 things that we do not need to be worried about ...

RG3 will be even better than he was when he was not dinged up last season

This FO will CONTINUE to find really good players (in the draft and elsewhere) that fit into what this franchise needs


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Postby frankcal20 » Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:12 pm

SJ - That's my thoughts exactly and we won't be an overpriced underachieving franchise anymore. We'll get more for less and continue to field a very competitive, winning team for years as long as these guys are in office.

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Postby HTTRRG3ALMO » Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:36 pm

I'm going to get a lot of hate responses to this more than likely so here it goes....

1. I'm not too upset about Zo leaving. He was amazing at special teams but couldn't be a starting LB. What's the problem here? A player that narrow in his specialty doesn't seem to be worth a lot of salt. If our special teams sucks so bad that we're doomed to fail without Zo, we have much bigger problems than him.

2. Shanny talking about Davis and hoping they could get him to 80% because a player with that kind of injury isn't expected to be 100%. That's a major yellow flag to me. 80% Davis...we can speculate all we want, but what would that look like? Slower Davis? A Davis who fails to catch 20% more of the time? How does an 80% Davis compare to a 100% Paulsen? Remember, the HOPE is to get him back at 80%...what if he only makes it to 60%?

I love Rak, but how long will he last in 2013? Thing that sucks is that he may have faced his last career injury and could be in total beast mode the rest of his career. So do you take that risk and have another cap hit sitting out another year, or do you see what picks you can get for him?

Not a fun place to be, but some of these injuries are plaguing some players more than others. For those guys, I'd flat out tell them they're risky players and they're going to have to accept the pay rate of a high risk player. If they don't like, goodbye...half of our defense was injured last year...ENOUGH!!

I think the news flash here isn't that the Skins have a cap issue, we have a consistency issue. I sure as heck wouldn't keep a car that was broken down for a year...mechanic can tell me that the car is "fixed" as he wants; experience tells me once crap starts happening with a car it doesn't stop. Experience tells us that majority of the time, this is the case with injured sports players.

Put it this way, I want a consistently good team. You're not going to get that with a team of players coming back from surgery. Not singling any players out, just saying the amount of players returning from surgery is a bit alarming. Not all of them are going to last long.

Lastly, I'm not saying cut all the hurt players. I'm just saying lets keep a healthy perspective when we lose a player that hasn't been consistently durable. Rak's/Davis'/etc backup is going to play better than Rak/Davis/etc on the sideline (gasp).

Keep em if you can, draft their future replacements because its only a matter of time.

To end this with a positive note: if we do that, we will always be a winning team. Why? Very simple, the survival of the team isn't consistent on the healthiness of 1-3 players. Their backups are willing and able to shut teams down all the same.

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Postby fetus » Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:04 pm

HTTRRG3ALMO wrote:I'm going to get a lot of hate responses to this more than likely so here it goes....

1. I'm not too upset about Zo leaving. He was amazing at special teams but couldn't be a starting LB. What's the problem here? A player that narrow in his specialty doesn't seem to be worth a lot of salt. If our special teams sucks so bad that we're doomed to fail without Zo, we have much bigger problems than him.

2. Shanny talking about Davis and hoping they could get him to 80% because a player with that kind of injury isn't expected to be 100%. That's a major yellow flag to me. 80% Davis...we can speculate all we want, but what would that look like? Slower Davis? A Davis who fails to catch 20% more of the time? How does an 80% Davis compare to a 100% Paulsen? Remember, the HOPE is to get him back at 80%...what if he only makes it to 60%?

I love Rak, but how long will he last in 2013? Thing that sucks is that he may have faced his last career injury and could be in total beast mode the rest of his career. So do you take that risk and have another cap hit sitting out another year, or do you see what picks you can get for him?

Not a fun place to be, but some of these injuries are plaguing some players more than others. For those guys, I'd flat out tell them they're risky players and they're going to have to accept the pay rate of a high risk player. If they don't like, goodbye...half of our defense was injured last year...ENOUGH!!

I think the news flash here isn't that the Skins have a cap issue, we have a consistency issue. I sure as heck wouldn't keep a car that was broken down for a year...mechanic can tell me that the car is "fixed" as he wants; experience tells me once crap starts happening with a car it doesn't stop. Experience tells us that majority of the time, this is the case with injured sports players.

Put it this way, I want a consistently good team. You're not going to get that with a team of players coming back from surgery. Not singling any players out, just saying the amount of players returning from surgery is a bit alarming. Not all of them are going to last long.

Lastly, I'm not saying cut all the hurt players. I'm just saying lets keep a healthy perspective when we lose a player that hasn't been consistently durable. Rak's/Davis'/etc backup is going to play better than Rak/Davis/etc on the sideline (gasp).

Keep em if you can, draft their future replacements because its only a matter of time.

To end this with a positive note: if we do that, we will always be a winning team. Why? Very simple, the survival of the team isn't consistent on the healthiness of 1-3 players. Their backups are willing and able to shut teams down all the same.


1. 100% agree, Zo was great for us but that was as a special teamer, he wanted too much for what we would use hm for and, there is no way he is the answer when Fletcher retires.

2. I didn't hear this from Mike but I am going to take this as they are hoping Fred is 80% before they sign him, I highly doubt they would expect him to come back from injury at 80% of what he was.... That just doesn't make sense in my mind.

3. Orakpo is a beast and I fully expect him to come back at 100% and light up QB's just like he had. He has had a lot more time to recover from this injury Than he did last year, and honestly I wouldn't be surprised to see him sit out preseason, now as to trading him, he has no value to anyone but us, think about injury worries you have in the eyes of a NFL franchise, would you trade for a player that is coming off his second injury in 2 years, same injury mind you? Why take the risk of losing 2 young poss playmakers, in draft picks, for a player then may only be around for a year.... If he doesn't get re-injured.
I see none of this re injury happening but if I were a GM, which I am far from, I wouldn't take the chance.
Remember Rak is not old, he and Kerrigan will be for the NFC what Harrison and Woodley were for the AFC.
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Postby HTTRRG3ALMO » Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:37 pm

fetus wrote:
HTTRRG3ALMO wrote:I'm going to get a lot of hate responses to this more than likely so here it goes....

1. I'm not too upset about Zo leaving. He was amazing at special teams but couldn't be a starting LB. What's the problem here? A player that narrow in his specialty doesn't seem to be worth a lot of salt. If our special teams sucks so bad that we're doomed to fail without Zo, we have much bigger problems than him.

2. Shanny talking about Davis and hoping they could get him to 80% because a player with that kind of injury isn't expected to be 100%. That's a major yellow flag to me. 80% Davis...we can speculate all we want, but what would that look like? Slower Davis? A Davis who fails to catch 20% more of the time? How does an 80% Davis compare to a 100% Paulsen? Remember, the HOPE is to get him back at 80%...what if he only makes it to 60%?

I love Rak, but how long will he last in 2013? Thing that sucks is that he may have faced his last career injury and could be in total beast mode the rest of his career. So do you take that risk and have another cap hit sitting out another year, or do you see what picks you can get for him?

Not a fun place to be, but some of these injuries are plaguing some players more than others. For those guys, I'd flat out tell them they're risky players and they're going to have to accept the pay rate of a high risk player. If they don't like, goodbye...half of our defense was injured last year...ENOUGH!!

I think the news flash here isn't that the Skins have a cap issue, we have a consistency issue. I sure as heck wouldn't keep a car that was broken down for a year...mechanic can tell me that the car is "fixed" as he wants; experience tells me once crap starts happening with a car it doesn't stop. Experience tells us that majority of the time, this is the case with injured sports players.

Put it this way, I want a consistently good team. You're not going to get that with a team of players coming back from surgery. Not singling any players out, just saying the amount of players returning from surgery is a bit alarming. Not all of them are going to last long.

Lastly, I'm not saying cut all the hurt players. I'm just saying lets keep a healthy perspective when we lose a player that hasn't been consistently durable. Rak's/Davis'/etc backup is going to play better than Rak/Davis/etc on the sideline (gasp).

Keep em if you can, draft their future replacements because its only a matter of time.

To end this with a positive note: if we do that, we will always be a winning team. Why? Very simple, the survival of the team isn't consistent on the healthiness of 1-3 players. Their backups are willing and able to shut teams down all the same.


1. 100% agree, Zo was great for us but that was as a special teamer, he wanted too much for what we would use hm for and, there is no way he is the answer when Fletcher retires.

2. I didn't hear this from Mike but I am going to take this as they are hoping Fred is 80% before they sign him, I highly doubt they would expect him to come back from injury at 80% of what he was.... That just doesn't make sense in my mind.

3. Orakpo is a beast and I fully expect him to come back at 100% and light up QB's just like he had. He has had a lot more time to recover from this injury Than he did last year, and honestly I wouldn't be surprised to see him sit out preseason, now as to trading him, he has no value to anyone but us, think about injury worries you have in the eyes of a NFL franchise, would you trade for a player that is coming off his second injury in 2 years, same injury mind you? Why take the risk of losing 2 young poss playmakers, in draft picks, for a player then may only be around for a year.... If he doesn't get re-injured.
I see none of this re injury happening but if I were a GM, which I am far from, I wouldn't take the chance.
Remember Rak is not old, he and Kerrigan will be for the NFC what Harrison and Woodley were for the AFC.


@Point 2:
Shanahan mentioned that at the press conference on 3/11. Its still up on Redskins.com if you wanted to check it out. Not sure if he meant at the point of signing but my initial thought was his expected recovery in general.

@Point 3:
I hope you're right. I'd love to see him swing back. Definitely worth a thought if he didn't get enough recovery time last time around. I know a lot of commentators were speculating on how difficult and complicated that type of injury is to recover from.

It would be an incredible waste of amazing talent if he just gets hurt all over again.

Good point on the trade issue with him as well. You're right; he probably wouldn't be worth the trade meaning he would "give" us more by staying on the roster.

Before I'm misunderstood, let me say that I'm a huge Rak fan. Its his consistency that concerns me...I truly hope he's been given the care he needs to recover 100%

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Postby fetus » Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:45 pm

HTTRRG3ALMO wrote:
fetus wrote:
HTTRRG3ALMO wrote:I'm going to get a lot of hate responses to this more than likely so here it goes....

1. I'm not too upset about Zo leaving. He was amazing at special teams but couldn't be a starting LB. What's the problem here? A player that narrow in his specialty doesn't seem to be worth a lot of salt. If our special teams sucks so bad that we're doomed to fail without Zo, we have much bigger problems than him.

2. Shanny talking about Davis and hoping they could get him to 80% because a player with that kind of injury isn't expected to be 100%. That's a major yellow flag to me. 80% Davis...we can speculate all we want, but what would that look like? Slower Davis? A Davis who fails to catch 20% more of the time? How does an 80% Davis compare to a 100% Paulsen? Remember, the HOPE is to get him back at 80%...what if he only makes it to 60%?

I love Rak, but how long will he last in 2013? Thing that sucks is that he may have faced his last career injury and could be in total beast mode the rest of his career. So do you take that risk and have another cap hit sitting out another year, or do you see what picks you can get for him?

Not a fun place to be, but some of these injuries are plaguing some players more than others. For those guys, I'd flat out tell them they're risky players and they're going to have to accept the pay rate of a high risk player. If they don't like, goodbye...half of our defense was injured last year...ENOUGH!!

I think the news flash here isn't that the Skins have a cap issue, we have a consistency issue. I sure as heck wouldn't keep a car that was broken down for a year...mechanic can tell me that the car is "fixed" as he wants; experience tells me once crap starts happening with a car it doesn't stop. Experience tells us that majority of the time, this is the case with injured sports players.

Put it this way, I want a consistently good team. You're not going to get that with a team of players coming back from surgery. Not singling any players out, just saying the amount of players returning from surgery is a bit alarming. Not all of them are going to last long.

Lastly, I'm not saying cut all the hurt players. I'm just saying lets keep a healthy perspective when we lose a player that hasn't been consistently durable. Rak's/Davis'/etc backup is going to play better than Rak/Davis/etc on the sideline (gasp).

Keep em if you can, draft their future replacements because its only a matter of time.

To end this with a positive note: if we do that, we will always be a winning team. Why? Very simple, the survival of the team isn't consistent on the healthiness of 1-3 players. Their backups are willing and able to shut teams down all the same.


1. 100% agree, Zo was great for us but that was as a special teamer, he wanted too much for what we would use hm for and, there is no way he is the answer when Fletcher retires.

2. I didn't hear this from Mike but I am going to take this as they are hoping Fred is 80% before they sign him, I highly doubt they would expect him to come back from injury at 80% of what he was.... That just doesn't make sense in my mind.

3. Orakpo is a beast and I fully expect him to come back at 100% and light up QB's just like he had. He has had a lot more time to recover from this injury Than he did last year, and honestly I wouldn't be surprised to see him sit out preseason, now as to trading him, he has no value to anyone but us, think about injury worries you have in the eyes of a NFL franchise, would you trade for a player that is coming off his second injury in 2 years, same injury mind you? Why take the risk of losing 2 young poss playmakers, in draft picks, for a player then may only be around for a year.... If he doesn't get re-injured.
I see none of this re injury happening but if I were a GM, which I am far from, I wouldn't take the chance.
Remember Rak is not old, he and Kerrigan will be for the NFC what Harrison and Woodley were for the AFC.


@Point 2:
Shanahan mentioned that at the press conference on 3/11. Its still up on Redskins.com if you wanted to check it out. Not sure if he meant at the point of signing but my initial thought was his expected recovery in general.

@Point 3:
I hope you're right. I'd love to see him swing back. Definitely worth a thought if he didn't get enough recovery time last time around. I know a lot of commentators were speculating on how difficult and complicated that type of injury is to recover from.

It would be an incredible waste of amazing talent if he just gets hurt all over again.

Good point on the trade issue with him as well. You're right; he probably wouldn't be worth the trade meaning he would "give" us more by staying on the roster.

Before I'm misunderstood, let me say that I'm a huge Rak fan. Its his consistency that concerns me...I truly hope he's been given the care he needs to recover 100%


I completely understand where you are coming from... but I will go back and look at the presser, just haven't been on redskins.com too much latley...
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Postby SkinsJock » Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:14 pm

frankcal20 wrote:SJ - That's my thoughts exactly and we won't be an overpriced underachieving franchise anymore. We'll get more for less and continue to field a very competitive, winning team for years as long as these guys are in office.


the cap hit the past 2 years has forced us to be a lot more careful

I also think that these guys are seeing the value in making sure they don't just take the BPA - they seem to be taking a lot more care in finding guys that suit

I doubt that we're going to be hurting too much this coming season but I also think we're going to be in a very enviable spot next season and beyond
The Redskins need to have a plan for how to put a product on the field that will be consistently competitive and they need to stick with that plan - it's taken years to become as bad as we are and it will be years getting out of it

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Postby skinsfan#33 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:04 am

SJ Judd because our cap penalty officially is over next year doesn't mean we won't be still feeling it for years to come. Last year they loaded contracts to account for less money this year. This year they had to restructure contracts.

Both of these things effectively spread the cap hit over many years. Our they kicked some of the salary down the road.

The Mara salary cap penalty will probably still be impacting us for longer than Shanny is the coach. The congress may actually agree on a budget before we stop feeling the impact of the Mara cap hit (I don't expect any presidential budget to be signed during this president's second term).
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Postby 1niksder » Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:05 am

skinsfan#33 wrote:SJ Judd because our cap penalty officially is over next year doesn't mean we won't be still feeling it for years to come. Last year they loaded contracts to account for less money this year. This year they had to restructure contracts.

Both of these things effectively spread the cap hit over many years. Our they kicked some of the salary down the road.


Actually they signed players to contracts with most of the money in base salaries last year, and none of them were back loaded. Somehave voidable years that require the full cap hit be account for over the first two years (2012 and 2013). If anything they did contracts last off-season that made the cap charges hits during the time they have limit space.

This year they restructured contracts in a way that has no cap impact in the future unless the player outperforms the restructured contract and that and the full impact would be in 2014.

skinsfan#33 wrote:The Mara salary cap penalty will probably still be impacting us for longer than Shanny is the coach. The congress may actually agree on a budget before we stop feeling the impact of the Mara cap hit (I don't expect any presidential budget to be signed during this president's second term).

:D
The effect of Mara Gate will end when the 2013 free agent signing period ends.

Year One they signed Merriweather, Garcon, Morgan, Briscoe, M. Williams, and Cedric Griffin. They moved up in the draft (meaning they needed more cap space because they had to pay the best rookie in the draft), flipped the pick the got for McNasty into the top performing RB in the draft and replaced Mara's team as the Division Champs.

Year Two starts with the current NFCE champs standing on the sidelines waiting on the market to settle down, look at the players (2012 starters) the other teams in the conference (including Mara's Gnats) had to dump just to get into postion to not be on the sidelines. The Redskins cut Hall, lost a special teamer and a RT no one wanted to return, and retained seven of their own free agents so far...
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Postby Deadskins » Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:18 am

1niksder wrote:
skinsfan#33 wrote:SJ Judd because our cap penalty officially is over next year doesn't mean we won't be still feeling it for years to come. Last year they loaded contracts to account for less money this year. This year they had to restructure contracts.

Both of these things effectively spread the cap hit over many years. Our they kicked some of the salary down the road.


Actually they signed players to contracts with most of the money in base salaries last year, and none of them were back loaded. Somehave voidable years that require the full cap hit be account for over the first two years (2012 and 2013). If anything they did contracts last off-season that made the cap charges hits during the time they have limit space.

This year they restructured contracts in a way that has no cap impact in the future unless the player outperforms the restructured contract and that and the full impact would be in 2014.

skinsfan#33 wrote:The Mara salary cap penalty will probably still be impacting us for longer than Shanny is the coach. The congress may actually agree on a budget before we stop feeling the impact of the Mara cap hit (I don't expect any presidential budget to be signed during this president's second term).

:D
The effect of Mara Gate will end when the 2013 free agent signing period ends.

Year One they signed Merriweather, Garcon, Morgan, Briscoe, M. Williams, and Cedric Griffin. They moved up in the draft (meaning they needed more cap space because they had to pay the best rookie in the draft), flipped the pick the got for McNasty into the top performing RB in the draft and replaced Mara's team as the Division Champs.

Year Two starts with the current NFCE champs standing on the sidelines waiting on the market to settle down, look at the players (2012 starters) the other teams in the conference (including Mara's Gnats) had to dump just to get into postion to not be on the sidelines. The Redskins cut Hall, lost a special teamer and a RT no one wanted to return, and retained seven of their own free agents so far...

Not only that, but come next season, when the cap actually rises, we will already be $18 million under, and can make some FA noise to replace our final missing first round pick. The future is bright.

P.S. Hey SJ Judd, how's Wynnona doing?
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Postby The Hogster » Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:07 am

Year One of Cap Penalty = NFC East Championship

Year Two = NFC East Championship + ????

This is good karma for the Skins. It's our time to reap the benefits of spending wisely on free agents and DRAFTING great players to win with. We've had decades of money and cap manuevering and that resulted in no success. Shine up the NFCE trophy and let's get it done the right way.
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Postby mastdark81 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:43 am

Wouldn't have restructured Moss, Carriker, Merriweather (just cut them) if that meant that we were not going to retain Hall and Fred Davis. Sav Rocca is sorta a questionable move paying him over a mil for a 36-37 year old punter but it means the world because he was effective as a holder for Forbath.

Love Moss but we have to ride with the young guys for a change. He's older and probably just have this one year left before he retires.

Carriker is replaceable. He's not long-term to me coming off a major injury and seems to have a love affair with Pro Wrestling. Jenkins did an admirable job last year, but we have too many runstuffers and no one who is capable of passrushing the qb from the end position.

Merriweather is just breaking down. Last two years in the league before he came to us was a struggle, then he gets a major knee injury. With the depth of safety in the draft and a few that have been recently released in free agency I'm sure we could have at least got a healthy safety.

Restructure T. Williams - he's young and wouldn't hurt to add a year or two to a player that you forsee him playing at least another 5 years.

Pay Cuts should be - Josh Wilson, Stephen Bowen, J. Morgan - Wilson shoulda been the one cut before Hall. Bowen is getting 6 mil per year for 1 sack, yet he's suppose to be our passrushing end, and J. Morgan is at about 5.

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Postby Chris Luva Luva » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:53 am

mastdark81 wrote:Sav Rocca is sorta a questionable move paying him over a mil for a 36-37 year old punter but it means the world because he was effective as a holder for Forbath.


With our CAP situation, you can't risk breaking the punt game by releasing him. You don't know who's available or who you'd replace him with. He's an adequate commidity. Too much risk to let him go in our current situation.

mastdark81 wrote:Love Moss but we have to ride with the young guys for a change. He's older and probably just have this one year left before he retires.


I agree, I said in another thread that it's Aldricks job to lose.


mastdark81 wrote:Carriker is replaceable. He's not long-term to me coming off a major injury and seems to have a love affair with Pro Wrestling.


What does wrestling have to do with anything...?


mastdark81 wrote:Jenkins did an admirable job last year, but we have too many runstuffers and no one who is capable of passrushing the qb from the end position.


In THIS 3-4 defense, the ends priority isn't pass rushing. It's gap assignment. They must control their gaps and allow the LB's to get to the ball handler. If you're gripe is pass rush, you need to look at our LB's.


mastdark81 wrote:Pay Cuts should be - Josh Wilson, Stephen Bowen, J. Morgan - Wilson shoulda been the one cut before Hall. Bowen is getting 6 mil per year for 1 sack, yet he's suppose to be our passrushing end, and J. Morgan is at about 5.


LOL at most of that. #maddenlife

You got one half of the fan base saying Hall is overrated. The other half saying it's Wilson. Demanding pay cuts of your your receiver who led the team in receptions while injured...
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Postby Chris Luva Luva » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:55 am

mastdark81 wrote:Sav Rocca is sorta a questionable move paying him over a mil for a 36-37 year old punter but it means the world because he was effective as a holder for Forbath.


With our CAP situation, you can't risk breaking the punt game by releasing him. You don't know who's available or who you'd replace him with. He's an adequate commidity. Too much risk to let him go in our current situation.

mastdark81 wrote:Love Moss but we have to ride with the young guys for a change. He's older and probably just have this one year left before he retires.


I agree, I said in another thread that it's Aldricks job to lose.


mastdark81 wrote:Carriker is replaceable. He's not long-term to me coming off a major injury and seems to have a love affair with Pro Wrestling.


What does wrestling have to do with anything...?


mastdark81 wrote:Jenkins did an admirable job last year, but we have too many runstuffers and no one who is capable of passrushing the qb from the end position.


In THIS 3-4 defense, the ends priority isn't pass rushing. It's gap assignment. They must control their gaps and allow the LB's to get to the ball handler. If you're gripe is pass rush, you need to look at our LB's.


mastdark81 wrote:Pay Cuts should be - Josh Wilson, Stephen Bowen, J. Morgan - Wilson shoulda been the one cut before Hall. Bowen is getting 6 mil per year for 1 sack, yet he's suppose to be our passrushing end, and J. Morgan is at about 5.


LOL at all of that. #maddenlife
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