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Postby Deadskins » Tue May 21, 2013 12:41 pm

Cappster wrote:Try to marginalize the other person to help invalidate that persons argument instead of actually refuting said persons argument.

You mean like this?

Cappster wrote:I've got the answer: God is mysterious! Ahahahahaaaa

Assuming that god exists and is an omnipotent and omniscient being, I would say that god probably loves lil Wayne a little more than that innocent little girl who died a horrific death. See, this is where the apologists come in and truly do say that god is mysterious and he has a plan or her reward is in heaven, blah blah blah. If you had never heard of god and someone came to you, as an adult, speaking about the wonders of the sky deity, you would probably think they were crazy. I mean, imagine if someone came up to you claiming how awesome the flying spaghetti monster is and all the wonders that little meaty and delicious flying pasta has done in their life. Maybe if someone invented the FSM two thousand years ago, we all would be walking around wearing spaghetti strainers on our heads.
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Postby Cappster » Tue May 21, 2013 1:48 pm

Deadskins wrote:
Cappster wrote:Try to marginalize the other person to help invalidate that persons argument instead of actually refuting said persons argument.

You mean like this?

Cappster wrote:I've got the answer: God is mysterious! Ahahahahaaaa

Assuming that god exists and is an omnipotent and omniscient being, I would say that god probably loves lil Wayne a little more than that innocent little girl who died a horrific death. See, this is where the apologists come in and truly do say that god is mysterious and he has a plan or her reward is in heaven, blah blah blah. If you had never heard of god and someone came to you, as an adult, speaking about the wonders of the sky deity, you would probably think they were crazy. I mean, imagine if someone came up to you claiming how awesome the flying spaghetti monster is and all the wonders that little meaty and delicious flying pasta has done in their life. Maybe if someone invented the FSM two thousand years ago, we all would be walking around wearing spaghetti strainers on our heads.


If you read my post within the intended context, you may see that it was satirical in its nature. However, the points about god's will being mysterious and if a religion is old then it is taken more seriously are accurate. I used the FSM, because there are people who actually do call themselves pastafarians and no one truly takes them seriously. You could almost insert any kind of religion, that's had a following for a couple thousand years, and just, because it is old it is given more clout over newer ideas. Don't be so sensitive.
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Postby Deadskins » Tue May 21, 2013 3:02 pm

Uh huh. One man's satire is another's attempt at marginalization. I guess it's only satire when you do it. :roll: Funny, no one else was being "satirical" when answering LPJ's very serious question. I particularly liked the hysterical laughter in your first line. And telling me not to be so sensitive, when I pointed out your blatant hypocrisy, was a nice touch too. :wink:
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Postby Cappster » Tue May 21, 2013 3:34 pm

Deadskins wrote:Uh huh. One man's satire is another's attempt at marginalization. I guess it's only satire when you do it. :roll: Funny, no one else was being "satirical" when answering LPJ's very serious question. I particularly liked the hysterical laughter in your first line. And telling me not to be so sensitive, when I pointed out your blatant hypocrisy, was a nice touch too. :wink:


No matter how I answered LPJ's question, you would still find fault with it as I am heretic that is bound on the southern train to hellllllll. The bottom line is you believe your religion is true based on old and flawed writings that have been written and rewritten many times over. I find not only your particular religion, but all religions to be falsely characterized as truly knowing and being the forth comer of knowledge about a higher power. I am not saying you are stupid or that I am smarter than anyone else (there are many smart people who believe in a deity), because I feel people are worshiping what essentially, to me, equates to worshiping thin air. Do people find value in religion? Yes, they do. That doesn't mean what they are getting value out of is true.

Not to mention I was addressing the question that LPJ posted without addressing any one person in particular. You addressed me directly in which you said my reasoning was fake, I made no logical sense, and that I have no evidence to support my claims. Yet, you are still responding to me which I guess is to tell me how hypocritical and nonsensical I truly am.
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Postby Deadskins » Tue May 21, 2013 5:52 pm

Cappster wrote:
Deadskins wrote:Uh huh. One man's satire is another's attempt at marginalization. I guess it's only satire when you do it. :roll: Funny, no one else was being "satirical" when answering LPJ's very serious question. I particularly liked the hysterical laughter in your first line. And telling me not to be so sensitive, when I pointed out your blatant hypocrisy, was a nice touch too. :wink:


No matter how I answered LPJ's question, you would still find fault with it as I am heretic that is bound on the southern train to hellllllll.

I'm sure you probably believe that.

Cappster wrote:The bottom line is you believe your religion is true based on old and flawed writings that have been written and rewritten many times over.

You have absolutely no idea why I believe my religion is true. For the last three pages you've been telling me how I'm distancing myself from these same writings you now say I'm basing my religion on.

Cappster wrote:I find not only your particular religion, but all religions to be falsely characterized as truly knowing and being the forth comer of knowledge about a higher power.

And yet you still seem to think you know that they are wrong, without the least shred of evidence. Sounds like zealotry to me.

Cappster wrote:I am not saying you are stupid or that I am smarter than anyone else

I should hope not!

Cappster wrote:(there are many smart people who believe in a deity), because I feel people are worshiping what essentially, to me, equates to worshiping thin air. Do people find value in religion? Yes, they do. That doesn't mean what they are getting value out of is true.

What's your point? That there is no God? Yes, you've told us that. Yet you can't cite any evidence, either quantifiable or even anecdotal, to support this claim.

Cappster wrote:Not to mention I was addressing the question that LPJ posted without addressing any one person in particular.

Which is why you included:

Cappster wrote:See, this is where the apologists come in and truly do say that god is mysterious and he has a plan

in your response? You do realize this is a message board, right? When you post, not only are you addressing everyone (though the highlighted words sure make it seem otherwise), there is a record of what you wrote.

Cappster wrote:You addressed me directly in which you said my reasoning was fake, I made no logical sense, and that I have no evidence to support my claims.

Well, when I said that, I was responding directly to your assertions to the contrary. But, what I actually said was that your reasoning was specious and contrived, and that you hadn't used logic or provided any evidence to back your arguments. I stand by that.

Cappster wrote:Yet, you are still responding to me which I guess is to tell me how hypocritical and nonsensical I truly am.

I didn't say I wouldn't respond to you. I said I was done arguing with you about how your misguided notions that conflicting (in your mind) writings, and the actions of people who claim to be Christians somehow disproves that there is a God (this is some of that specious reasoning and illogic I cited). I always welcome interesting debate, if the other party can bring a reasoned and logical opposition to my viewpoint. So far, you've been sorely lacking. My 2 cents
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Postby Cappster » Tue May 21, 2013 8:12 pm

Sigh... I have lost the zeal for responding to you, because you don't understand anything and I have gotten to the point where I am wasting too much of my time. I could go through and breakdown everything you said in the last post, but you are drunk on theism and there is not the slightest hint of you seeing past your jesus juice.
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Postby Deadskins » Tue May 21, 2013 8:48 pm

:rock:
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Postby HTTRRG3ALMO » Wed May 22, 2013 3:02 pm

Romans 1:18-32

18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.


Matthew 10:14-15

14 If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet. 15 Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.



-------------

For now, I'm leaving this thread. Already gave the reasons for my hope and respectfully heard the reasoning of others.

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Postby Cappster » Wed May 22, 2013 7:32 pm

Pope Francis Says Atheists Who Do Good Are Redeemed, Not Just Catholics

Pope Francis rocked some religious and atheist minds today when he declared that everyone was redeemed through Jesus, including atheists.

During his homily at Wednesday Mass in Rome, Francis emphasized the importance of "doing good" as a principle that unites all humanity, and a "culture of encounter" to support peace.

Using scripture from the Gospel of Mark, Pope Francis explained how upset Jesus' disciples were that someone outside their group was doing good, according to a report from Vatican Radio.

“They complain,” the Pope said in his homily, because they say, “If he is not one of us, he cannot do good. If he is not of our party, he cannot do good.” And Jesus corrects them: “Do not hinder him, he says, let him do good.” The disciples, Pope Francis explains, “were a little intolerant,” closed off by the idea of ​​possessing the truth, convinced that “those who do not have the truth, cannot do good.” “This was wrong . . . Jesus broadens the horizon.” Pope Francis said, “The root of this possibility of doing good – that we all have – is in creation”

Pope Francis went further in his sermon to say:

"The Lord created us in His image and likeness, and we are the image of the Lord, and He does good and all of us have this commandment at heart: do good and do not do evil. All of us. ‘But, Father, this is not Catholic! He cannot do good.’ Yes, he can... "The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone!".. We must meet one another doing good. ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we will meet one another there.”

Responding to the leader of the Roman Catholic church's homily, Father James Martin, S.J. wrote in an email to The Huffington Post:

"Pope Francis is saying, more clearly than ever before, that Christ offered himself as a sacrifice for everyone. That's always been a Christian belief. You can find St. Paul saying in the First Letter to Timothy that Jesus gave himself as a "ransom for all." But rarely do you hear it said by Catholics so forcefully, and with such evident joy. And in this era of religious controversies, it's a timely reminder that God cannot be confined to our narrow categories."

Of course, not all Christians believe that those who don't believe will be redeemed, and the Pope's words may spark memories of the deep divisions from the Protestant reformation over the belief in redemption through grace versus redemption through works.

The pope's comment has also struck a chord on Reddit, where it is the second most-shared piece.

More from Reuters:

Atheists should be seen as good people if they do good, Pope Francis said on Wednesday in his latest urging that people of all religions - or no religion - work together.

The leader of the world's 1.2 billion Roman Catholics made his comments in the homily of his morning Mass in his residence, a daily event where he speaks without prepared comments.

He told the story of a Catholic who asked a priest if even atheists had been redeemed by Jesus.

"Even them, everyone," the pope answered, according to Vatican Radio. "We all have the duty to do good," he said.

"Just do good and we'll find a meeting point," the pope said in a hypothetical conversation in which someone told a priest: "But I don't believe. I'm an atheist."

Francis's reaching out to atheists and people who belong to no religion is a marked contrast to the attitude of former Pope Benedict, who sometimes left non-Catholics feeling that he saw them as second-class believers.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/2 ... 20757.html
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Postby Deadskins » Thu May 23, 2013 7:52 am

See, even the Pope says it's your actions that matter, not your religion.
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Postby DarthMonk » Thu May 23, 2013 12:48 pm

Cappster wrote:
Pope Francis Says Atheists Who Do Good Are Redeemed, Not Just Catholics

Pope Francis rocked some religious and atheist minds today when he declared that everyone was redeemed through Jesus, including atheists.

During his homily at Wednesday Mass in Rome, Francis emphasized the importance of "doing good" as a principle that unites all humanity, and a "culture of encounter" to support peace.

Using scripture from the Gospel of Mark, Pope Francis explained how upset Jesus' disciples were that someone outside their group was doing good, according to a report from Vatican Radio.

“They complain,” the Pope said in his homily, because they say, “If he is not one of us, he cannot do good. If he is not of our party, he cannot do good.” And Jesus corrects them: “Do not hinder him, he says, let him do good.” The disciples, Pope Francis explains, “were a little intolerant,” closed off by the idea of ​​possessing the truth, convinced that “those who do not have the truth, cannot do good.” “This was wrong . . . Jesus broadens the horizon.” Pope Francis said, “The root of this possibility of doing good – that we all have – is in creation”

Pope Francis went further in his sermon to say:

"The Lord created us in His image and likeness, and we are the image of the Lord, and He does good and all of us have this commandment at heart: do good and do not do evil. All of us. ‘But, Father, this is not Catholic! He cannot do good.’ Yes, he can... "The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone!".. We must meet one another doing good. ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we will meet one another there.”

Responding to the leader of the Roman Catholic church's homily, Father James Martin, S.J. wrote in an email to The Huffington Post:

"Pope Francis is saying, more clearly than ever before, that Christ offered himself as a sacrifice for everyone. That's always been a Christian belief. You can find St. Paul saying in the First Letter to Timothy that Jesus gave himself as a "ransom for all." But rarely do you hear it said by Catholics so forcefully, and with such evident joy. And in this era of religious controversies, it's a timely reminder that God cannot be confined to our narrow categories."

Of course, not all Christians believe that those who don't believe will be redeemed, and the Pope's words may spark memories of the deep divisions from the Protestant reformation over the belief in redemption through grace versus redemption through works.

The pope's comment has also struck a chord on Reddit, where it is the second most-shared piece.

More from Reuters:

Atheists should be seen as good people if they do good, Pope Francis said on Wednesday in his latest urging that people of all religions - or no religion - work together.

The leader of the world's 1.2 billion Roman Catholics made his comments in the homily of his morning Mass in his residence, a daily event where he speaks without prepared comments.

He told the story of a Catholic who asked a priest if even atheists had been redeemed by Jesus.

"Even them, everyone," the pope answered, according to Vatican Radio. "We all have the duty to do good," he said.

"Just do good and we'll find a meeting point," the pope said in a hypothetical conversation in which someone told a priest: "But I don't believe. I'm an atheist."

Francis's reaching out to atheists and people who belong to no religion is a marked contrast to the attitude of former Pope Benedict, who sometimes left non-Catholics feeling that he saw them as second-class believers.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/2 ... 20757.html


First they approve the Big Bang ~ Pope Pius XII declared, at the November 22, 1951, opening meeting of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, that the Big Bang theory does not conflict with the Catholic concept of creation.

Then they admit they screwed Galileo ~ Thanks to his intuition as a brilliant physicist and by relying on different arguments, Galileo, who practically invented the experimental method, understood why only the sun could function as the centre of the world, as it was then known, that is to say, as a planetary system. The error of the theologians of the time, when they maintained the centrality of the Earth, was to think that our understanding of the physical world's structure was, in some way, imposed by the literal sense of Sacred Scripture ~ Pope John Paul II, L'Osservatore Romano N. 44 (1264) - November 4, 1992

Now this. Kewl.
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Postby Deadskins » Thu May 23, 2013 1:03 pm

Apparently religious doctrine can change and grow.
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Postby langleyparkjoe » Tue May 28, 2013 11:23 am

Soooo.. to the simplest form of it all.

Don't kill people (unless self defense)
Don't hurt people (unless self defense)
Help people
Don't take what doesn't belong to you without asking
Don't commit sexual crimes (including children)
If your married, don't cheat
Be parents to your offspring and raise them

Totally my way of thinking and my life's been pretty awesome so far
:lol:

Anyways guys, this will be it for me in here.

God Bless you all whether you except it or not :wink:
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Postby Cappster » Tue May 28, 2013 7:49 pm

langleyparkjoe wrote:Soooo.. to the simplest form of it all.

Don't kill people (unless self defense)
Don't hurt people (unless self defense)
Help people
Don't take what doesn't belong to you without asking
Don't commit sexual crimes (including children)
If your married, don't cheat
Be parents to your offspring and raise them

Totally my way of thinking and my life's been pretty awesome so far
:lol:

Anyways guys, this will be it for me in here.

God Bless you all whether you except it or not :wink:


I think you forgot one love and smoke ganja hahaha
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Postby Cappster » Thu May 30, 2013 2:35 pm

Vatican Clarifies Pope's 'Atheist' Remarks

Shortly after Pope Francis gave an homily in which he said even atheists who do good are redeemed, a statement from a Vatican spokesman clarified the pope's remarks.

Just one day after the pope's now famous words in Rome on May 22, a Vatican spokesman the Rev. Thomas Rosica released a statement quoting a section of the Catechism of the Catholic Church that says people who reject the teachings of Jesus Christ cannot attain salvation.

"All salvation comes from Christ, the Head, through the Church which is his body," Rosica wrote. "Hence they cannot be saved who, knowing the Church as founded by Christ and necessary for salvation, would refuse to enter her or remain in her."

However, Rosica wrote that it's not impossible for an atheist to eventually be saved by Christ.

“Rejection of Christianity may not mean the rejection of Christ,” he wrote. "We can never say with ultimate certainty whether a non-Christian who has rejected Christianity...is still following the temporary path mapped out for his own salvation which is leading him to an encounter with God.”

Rosica's statement was written in response to the many calls and messages he received after Francis' controversial homily.

The Catholic Church defines redemption and salvation differently: while everyone is redeemed through the death of Jesus Christ, salvation is offered by God and can be either accepted or rejected individually.

In his homily, the pope said everyone, "even the atheists," have been redeemed "with the Blood of Christ," according to Vatican Radio.

"If we, each doing our own part, if we do good to others, if we meet there, doing good, and we go slowly, gently, little by little, we will make that culture of encounter," Francis said. "We must meet one another doing good. 'But I don't believe, Father, I am an atheist!' But do good: we will meet one another there."

The Vatican's statement seemed to attempt to do damage control for Francis' remarks, emphasizing that his job is more to speak well than to provide an indisputable interpretation of the Bible.

"[Pope Francis] is first and foremost a seasoned pastor and preacher who has much experience in reaching people," the statement said. "His words are not spoken in the context of a theological faculty or academy nor in interreligious dialogue or debate."


Wow, what a shocker. Just one more reason why religion is a sham.

Edit: I forgot the link

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/2 ... ostpopular
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