Week 2 @ Green Bay Postgame

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Postby StorminMormon86 » Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:33 am

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
StorminMormon86 wrote:I didn't take it as a slight on Griffin. The fans want to turn a blind eye to his inconsistencies, which makes no sense.


Right but I want to properly frame where he is. He is the model of consistency, ONCE he has obtained and a firm hold on a skill. He's simply deficient at the moment in some key areas, ONCE/IF he grasps those skills, he'll be 110% consistent in it.

I agree with you. I don't know if it's a mental problem, or if he really isn't 100% physically. No one expects him to continue on a downward spiral.

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Postby 1niksder » Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:39 am

grampi wrote:I think the thing some of you are overlooking is when his designed running plays were part of the game plan, THAT made the passing game that much easier because defenses didn't know what to defend against...now that the designed running plays have been taken out of the game plan, this has made the offense MUCH easier to defend...which also means RG3 would have to be almost perfect with his passes as that's what opposing Ds are looking for...if his knee is healthy enough for him to run, then the running plays should be part of the offense...otherwise the losses will continue to mount until one of two things happen...either RG3 gets healthy enough to run full bore, or he becomes a perfect pocket passer...

He threw for 320 yards and had QBR of 104.2 :D

RGIII IS a pocket passer that has the ability to hurt you with his legs... so I understand what you're saying.

I'm saying if he's not right physically, this is a good way to ease him back in... coming off re-hab he was going to have to be eased back in anyway and it wasn't done during the pre-season.

My previous response to you pointed out a few reason for why they are playing the way the are.

Granted nothing can be done about Flecth (and I'll take whatever he has left, but most of the other issues will fix themselves in time. We have have different time frames. You're like that commercial and "You want it now", totally understandable. I on the underhand set week six as the point of no return.

From the season opener to then not only gives him six weeks to get right, it gives the rookie four weeks of trial by fire and a chance to grow, it means the return of J. Jenkins and Jackson meaning more ways to use Kerrigan and less pressure on B. Jenkins as he progresses.

It'll be time to play TtiT and introduce a tweaked version of what we saw last year (considering everyone is running what they unveiled last year)
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Postby 1niksder » Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:52 am

StorminMormon86 wrote:
Chris Luva Luva wrote:
StorminMormon86 wrote:I didn't take it as a slight on Griffin. The fans want to turn a blind eye to his inconsistencies, which makes no sense.


Right but I want to properly frame where he is. He is the model of consistency, ONCE he has obtained and a firm hold on a skill. He's simply deficient at the moment in some key areas, ONCE/IF he grasps those skills, he'll be 110% consistent in it.

I agree with you. I don't know if it's a mental problem, or if he really isn't 100% physically. No one expects him to continue on a downward spiral.


It's not a downward spiral it's a learning process.

It's a learning process that he is going through.

He never got blitzed last year because of his thread to run the ball out of the pistol, now he's blizted on almost every down. Everyone said the only way to stop the RO is to blitz and hit the QB.

Robert isn't taking a lot of sacks and he is finding the open receiver consistantly, once they go back to the read option run it will be easier to deal with those blitzes. For now we are still talking about a guy that hadn't been able to do anything but rehab since January, now he"s getting his OTAs and camp snaps when it counts. It's not ideal but I think it's this teams best option.
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Postby Chris Luva Luva » Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:53 am

riggofan wrote:You're just assuming that would be the case. You have no idea whether or not the offense would score points or not if the game remained close. I think our offensive play calling changes as the game gets further out of reach. I also think there is more pressure on the offense to not go three and out which leads to mental mistakes.

Anyway, I'm not quite sure that we're saying anything that different from each other. I pretty much agree with what people are saying about the offense in general, and I definitely agree with your points about the state of our defense.

I guess I'll just say that it is highly disappointing for our defense to show up this year and look far worse than it did at the beginning of last year. I mean, does anybody really believe we could have plugged Kirk Cousins in the past two games and had better results?


1. It is an assumption on my part. But I dont believe that it's coincidence that our offense only gets going once the opposing defense has a 20+ lead. We've been watching football long enough to know that defense ease off the gas to present the big play once a lofty lead is achieved.

2. I am disappointed in the defense but I drank too much kool-aid in regards to Rambo and Meriweather. It's the same defense as last year, the only difference is we aren't scoring. And lets be fair to the defense. It's all about pressure and blitzing. And Haz can't do that when the offense ISN'T scoring. He has to dial down on the blitzes because they're high risk. The 1st two drives, we were taking Rodgers down. That could happen all game long IF the offense could score some points.
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Postby skinsfan#33 » Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:59 am

RG3 has to run to be the player he was until he can become the player he will be.

John Elway and Steve Young were both running fools until they learned to pay in the pocket. But had they not been running fools in the beginning the never would have been around long enough to become HOF players.

People (not very bright people IMHO) say that Rg3 will not last through his career if he runs as much as he did last year. Well the fact is with this OL he won't last until December if he doesn't run more than he has the past two games! He is a sitting duck and will get plucked for a holiday dinner if he doesn't take flight.

He needs to run to be effective. He needs to run until he can learn to be a pocket passer. He needs to run until the Shannys can build an OL that can create a pocket and keep him safe. If you have ever had a pair of pants that have a tiny pocket that is inside of a normal pocket that is what this OL provides. A useless tiny pocket that no one can find it useful for anything.

RG3 needs to start running again to PROLONG HIS CAREER! If they continue down this path he will be on IR before winter starts. Or worse he will become as gun shy as Patrick Ramsey, because this OL is worse on pass pro than the one Ramsey played behind.
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Postby 1niksder » Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:01 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
riggofan wrote:You're just assuming that would be the case. You have no idea whether or not the offense would score points or not if the game remained close. I think our offensive play calling changes as the game gets further out of reach. I also think there is more pressure on the offense to not go three and out which leads to mental mistakes.

Anyway, I'm not quite sure that we're saying anything that different from each other. I pretty much agree with what people are saying about the offense in general, and I definitely agree with your points about the state of our defense.

I guess I'll just say that it is highly disappointing for our defense to show up this year and look far worse than it did at the beginning of last year. I mean, does anybody really believe we could have plugged Kirk Cousins in the past two games and had better results?


1. It is an assumption on my part. But I dont believe that it's coincidence that our offense only gets going once the opposing defense has a 20+ lead. We've been watching football long enough to know that defense ease off the gas to present the big play once a lofty lead is achieved.


So you're saying our offense doesn't get going until mid-way through the second quarter :?: :twisted:
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Postby Chris Luva Luva » Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:02 pm

skinsfan#33 wrote:RG3 has to run to be the player he was until he can become the player he will be.

John Elway and Steve Young were both running fools until they learned to pay in the pocket. But had they not been running fools in the beginning the never would have been around long enough to become HOF players.

People (not very bright people IMHO) say that Rg3 will not last through his career if he runs as much as he did last year. Well the fact is with this OL he won't last until December if he doesn't run more than he has the past two games! He is a sitting duck and will get plucked for a holiday dinner if he doesn't take flight.

He needs to run to be effective. He needs to run until he can learn to be a pocket passer. He needs to run until the Shannys can build an OL that can create a pocket and keep him safe. If you have ever had a pair of pants that have a tiny pocket that is inside of a normal pocket that is what this OL provides. A useless tiny pocket that no one can find it useful for anything.

RG3 needs to start running again to PROLONG HIS CAREER! If they continue down this path he will be on IR before winter starts. Or worse he will become as gun shy as Patrick Ramsey, because this OL is worse on pass pro than the one Ramsey played behind.


I more or less agree with this post. When he has run, he's been doing so smartly. Run this year, do so smartly and strategically. It'll slow the blitzing down, it'll open things up for his teammates to further assist him.

Make it thru this season healthy and go 200% on becoming a true pocket passer. Being able to throw from the pocket doesn't make you a pocket passer. Awareness and ability to buy yourself and your offensive linemen more time is what really makes you elite.
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Postby StorminMormon86 » Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:14 pm

I just read an online article that said there were "rumors" that if the Skins start 0-3 they'll bench Griffin for Cousins. And then I smakced my face with my palm. It hurt.

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Postby Chris Luva Luva » Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:16 pm

IF that's true. That's worse than if they had started Kirk and brought Griff along more slowly...

Also, IF true it shows that the coaches truly think that RGIII is the weak link on the offense right now. And honestly, he appears to be.
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Postby gushogs » Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:52 pm

The Defense was attrocious. Miss tackles left and rigth were sad to watch.... In one screen play there were like 4 miss tackles that became a huge gain. The secondary is a big concern. Next week the Straford/Calvin J. look like a huge headache....
On the bright side, every NFC East team lost yesterday, the dark side: Ryan, the Peytons, Rivers, Kolin K. are next.

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Postby skinsfan#33 » Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:09 pm

StorminMormon86 wrote:I just read an online article that said there were "rumors" that if the Skins start 0-3 they'll bench Griffin for Cousins. And then I smakced my face with my palm. It hurt.


I think there is a less than .08% chance that happens (the benching, not a smack to the face hurting). The only way I could see it happening is if Robert's knee has had a set back, like sweelling or significant pain. I think even if both Shany's think the offensive problems were even 100% Griffin's fault (an absurd conclusion) they would still ride it out. RG3 is the future and the present. The only way they banch Robert is if he is not healthy.

It would be different if the D was playing well and the O was just letting them down, but that isn't the case.
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Postby Chris Luva Luva » Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:17 pm

skinsfan#33 wrote:It would be different if the D was playing well and the O was just letting them down, but that isn't the case.


Or they believe that the offense is letting the defense down... That door swings both ways.
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Postby markshark84 » Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:24 pm

skinsfan#33 wrote:RG3 has to run to be the player he was until he can become the player he will be.

John Elway and Steve Young were both running fools until they learned to pay in the pocket. But had they not been running fools in the beginning the never would have been around long enough to become HOF players.

People (not very bright people IMHO) say that Rg3 will not last through his career if he runs as much as he did last year. Well the fact is with this OL he won't last until December if he doesn't run more than he has the past two games! He is a sitting duck and will get plucked for a holiday dinner if he doesn't take flight.

He needs to run to be effective. He needs to run until he can learn to be a pocket passer. He needs to run until the Shannys can build an OL that can create a pocket and keep him safe. If you have ever had a pair of pants that have a tiny pocket that is inside of a normal pocket that is what this OL provides. A useless tiny pocket that no one can find it useful for anything.

RG3 needs to start running again to PROLONG HIS CAREER! If they continue down this path he will be on IR before winter starts. Or worse he will become as gun shy as Patrick Ramsey, because this OL is worse on pass pro than the one Ramsey played behind.


I agree with alot of what you are saying with regards to RGIII and his progression; however, I TOTALLY disagree with the OL comments.

This OL is actually playing fairly well considering. In 2 games RGIII has only been sacked 4 times ---- with a sack % of 4.3% per dropback. Last season he was sacked 7.1% per dropback!!! The OL has actually stepped up --- especially when you consider the amount of blitz packages they're seeing this year.

I think blaming the OL is easy, but it's unrealistic to expect any OL to give their QB 6 seconds in the pocket on any given play. Our OL has given RGIII enough time to make plays this year --- and that's all you can ask of them. RGIII has been inconsistent and is playing in a predictable offense. That is the problem right now ---- not our OL.
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Postby RayNAustin » Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:25 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:I did expect more from RG3 - he is looking rusty and I agree with CLL - in that he's not showing any mobility at all


I think, looking back... We fooled ourselves. Me included. The same way people fooled themselves about this defense.


PulpExposure wrote:I actually think CLL is right on with RG3 not being a pocket passer. But...since his legs aren't right, maybe this is his opportunity to learn how to be one. Think about how good this kid could be IF he had the traditional drop back ability, plus mobility. I hope he takes this time to learn how to read a defense from the pocket...that means more for the long term of this team than winning a game or two right now.


I think his legs are fine. He just doesn't have the skillset, he doesn't have the pocket awareness yet. Those were his deficiencies and he hasn't had a chance to work on them. His legs are more than capable enough to slide around in the pocket, it isn't natural to him.

The read option masked his weaknesses, just like it did for Pat White. The mask is done and you're seeing the incomplete QB that he is. It's a hard dose of reality that nobody really wants to own.


I hope you're wrong, but it sure looks like you could be right. I have a slightly different fear which is even worse than yours.

I'm really surprised .. as I think many are, that he's played the way he has so far, given his accuracy last year, even throwing on the run, the kid was on target. He's been all over the place these first two weeks .. and doesn't look sharp at all. I'm trying to remain optimistic about RG3 figuring this out ... he's being asked to play a different style than he's accustomed to playing, and perhaps that, combined with a lack of full confidence in the knee is causing him some anxiety and he's pressing too much, and not playing loose and relaxed as is his nature. But I also have a fear in the back of my mind that this team suffers the same problems from the two previous seasons before RG3, that RG3+Morris+read option covered up last year.

The whole situation rekindles in my mind the inability of Kyle to put a solid functioning and efficient offense on the field with three other QBs over the first two seasons .... and that last year's success was due primarily to Robert and Alfred and the read option really throwing defenses curve balls, that without that threat, we're back to the bad old days. Keep in mind that what we saw last year was NOT Kyle Shanahan's system .. it was a borrowed system resembling nothing like Kyle's offense that proved successful. And the even greater fear is, that unless they can figure this out, and devise a more traditional offense that doesn't require RG3 to be a tackling dummy/option running back, they're going to go back to last year's approach, and the Kid will not be able to endure the punishment that style of offense guarantees he'll receive.

As for defense, last week, I was giving a pass to them, because of how unknown the Eagle offense was and how badly our offense stunk the joint up .... but sadly, no such excuse is available for what happened yesterday. The packers are no mystery offense ... plenty of film on them and we were unable to stop anything they wanted to do.

What happened to the front 7 on this defense? We knew we were going to have a few growing pains with the rooks in the secondary, and that GB can throw the ball against anybody ... but they also ran the ball like the redskins were a high school defense ... then, throwing for a gazzillion yards on top of that. The defense was a literal embarrassment, and had the offense even presented a competitive challenge, the Packers could have scored as many points as they needed to win.

The only good news at this point is that there is nowhere to go but up ... as these first two weeks are about as bad as it can get. I don't recall seeing the Redskins being this bad on both sides at the same time, in a very long time. 0-2 doesn't bother me near as much as HOW we got there ... two miserable performances on both sides of the ball for a team who's supposed to be contenders? At some point ... you've got to start questioning the capability and wisdom of the ENTIRE coaching staff ... when you see this type of failure across the board ... when you see obvious no-no's like calling a damned pitch out in your own end zone ... that just reminds me of amateur hour ... there is a reason why you don't run those types of plays when you are backed inside the 10. And when you can't run 4 plays without a penalty ... and the only productive offense you're able to draw up gets your franchise QB beat to death ... you have a problem there. The fact is, we've not seen a successful Kyle Shanahan offense here ... we saw two years of failure, redeemed by a couple of extremely talented rookies running a college offense that took everyone by surprise. Now that the decision was made to return to the more traditional system, we once again see failure. Is this an inaccurate assessment?

The offensive failure is simply compounded by a defense, and particularly a secondary that has been a relative joke ever since Morris was brought in to coach them up .... how many players can you change? I mean, almost the entire team, save for a couple players have been hand chosen by Shanahan ... so you can't keep blaming lack of talent, especially when you're told by Shanahan himself that the team is so much better now, talent and depth wise, compared to when he first arrived in town? By making these claims, he's taking away the "lack of talent" excuse himself.

I know I'm probably in the severe minority on this opinion, but when you see such a dramatic, across the board failure like we've seen these past two weeks ... talent cannot continue to be the primary scapegoat. If the movie sucks and the actors suck .... you gotta start looking at the director.

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Postby riggofan » Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:31 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Also, IF true it shows that the coaches truly think that RGIII is the weak link on the offense right now. And honestly, he appears to be.


Ah well that's good news. We should be able to just plug Kirk Cousins or Rexy in and get this high octane offense rooooolling again. lol.

Somewhere Josh Morgan breathes a sigh of relief to hear that its actually RGIII who is the weak link on the offense.

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