How Long Should They Play Griffin Without Improvement?

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Postby grampi » Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:58 pm

gregory smith wrote:Had Aldrick not had the drop, had Hankerson come back for the ball, would you still be calling for the benching of Griffin? I think not. Even if Robert was the cause of our struggles, and he's not, benching him is a way bigger deal than trying to salvage a season. This is about the next 10 seasons. He's the quarterback until they haul him off the field like Theismann. Come on man.


This season isn't the only thing at stake here...RG3's long term health is as well....what do you think will happen to that knee if he were to take a hit on it? I think he'd be less suseptible to reinjuring that knee if it was allowed to heel longer...it is clearly not even closed to being fully heeled...

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Postby riggofan » Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:06 pm

grampi wrote:
gregory smith wrote:Had Aldrick not had the drop, had Hankerson come back for the ball, would you still be calling for the benching of Griffin? I think not. Even if Robert was the cause of our struggles, and he's not, benching him is a way bigger deal than trying to salvage a season. This is about the next 10 seasons. He's the quarterback until they haul him off the field like Theismann. Come on man.


This season isn't the only thing at stake here...RG3's long term health is as well....what do you think will happen to that knee if he were to take a hit on it? I think he'd be less suseptible to reinjuring that knee if it was allowed to heel longer...it is clearly not even closed to being fully heeled...


Better not let Kirk play either. He is coming off a sprained ankle.

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Postby gregory smith » Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:07 pm

Again I'll ask. Had Aldrick caught the ball cleanly and had Hankerson come back for the ball would you feel this way?


He's been cleared to play. We will have to go through this process whether it be now or 6 weeks from now. His comfort level will only improve by playing. This can be a valuable year for him, developing the dropback aspect of his game, then next year pitch the brace and torch the league. Hopefully.

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Postby Countertrey » Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:39 pm

gregory smith wrote:Again I'll ask. Had Aldrick caught the ball cleanly and had Hankerson come back for the ball would you feel this way?


He's been cleared to play. We will have to go through this process whether it be now or 6 weeks from now. His comfort level will only improve by playing. This can be a valuable year for him, developing the dropback aspect of his game, then next year pitch the brace and torch the league. Hopefully.

THIS.
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Postby StorminMormon86 » Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:02 pm

grampi wrote:
StorminMormon86 wrote:
grampi wrote:I don't know where this "improvement" in RG3 is as I've seen little to no improvement in his play. I want to to see him back to 100% and playing like he was last year before his injury, but is it worth scrapping the entire season just to find out IF he's gonna come around this year? He may not. The season isn't over yet, and I'd hate to see the entire season wasted when we've got a backup as good as Cousins sitting on the bench. Is he good enough to get the team a SB win...probably not, but I certainly think he's good enough to get to the play-offs, which RG3 is not, not playing the way he's playing right now anyway. I'd say if RG3 isn't playing markedly better in the OAK game, then it's time to start Cousins after the bye...

I'd say you'd have to give Griffin until at least after the bye before there are legitimate calls for him to be benched.


Nah, I think 4 games is enough to tell if RG's gonna come around this year or not...if the team gets to 0-5 or 0-6 the season is basically over at that point...right now it's still savalgable...

What I meant was that before giving up on Griffin, you should see how he plays after the bye because then there can be no more "well it's preseason for him" because he would have played 4 games and had a full week off. If he shows no meaningful improvement (despite what some say on here, his "improvement" has been less than stellar, with a QBR of 26.6) then I'm all for having a serious discussion about sitting him. But I just do not see that happening.

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Postby Countertrey » Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:47 pm

StorminMormon86 wrote: (despite what some say on here, his "improvement" has been less than stellar, with a QBR of 26.6)



Are you fabricating Bob's QBR, or getting it from Cowboys.com? His current quarterback rating, while not stellar, is 84.1... above Flacco... above Rothlisburger... abpve Kaepernick... above Sheli Manning... and even above Tom Brady.

That's twice, I believe, you have cited this bogus stat... So... tell me... why should I have any confidence in anything you say????
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Postby Deadskins » Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:28 pm

grampi wrote:I don't know where this "improvement" in RG3 is as I've seen little to no improvement in his play.

Then you are not watching or are blind. If you can't see just the difference in his mechanics from the start of the Smeagols game, then you will never see it.
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Postby Deadskins » Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:33 pm

skinsfan#33 wrote:Had that 30 yard scramble and fumble happened last year he would have been ruled down because he gave himself up.

Nope, that rule's been the same for at least 10 years.
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Postby skinsfan#33 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:41 am

Deadskins wrote:
skinsfan#33 wrote:Had that 30 yard scramble and fumble happened last year he would have been ruled down because he gave himself up.

Nope, that rule's been the same for at least 10 years.

Nope, as I said it was changed in the off season. A couple of years ago Victor Cruise caught a pass in a two minute fill from Eli dove to the ground and left the football on the ground. Since he had never been touched the Cardinals pounced on the ball. The refs have the ball to the Giants because they said VC had declared him self down.

This rule was changed during the off season.
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Postby Deadskins » Wed Sep 25, 2013 5:31 am

skinsfan#33 wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
skinsfan#33 wrote:Had that 30 yard scramble and fumble happened last year he would have been ruled down because he gave himself up.

Nope, that rule's been the same for at least 10 years.

Nope, as I said it was changed in the off season. A couple of years ago Victor Cruise caught a pass in a two minute fill from Eli dove to the ground and left the football on the ground. Since he had never been touched the Cardinals pounced on the ball. The refs have the ball to the Giants because they said VC had declared him self down.

This rule was changed during the off season.

No, it wasn't. That was just the refs giving the vaGiants a break. Also, the rules are different for a scrambling QB, than they are for anybody else. To give himself up, a QB must slide feet first. That has been the rule for at least 10 years.
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Postby StorminMormon86 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:36 am

Countertrey wrote:
StorminMormon86 wrote: (despite what some say on here, his "improvement" has been less than stellar, with a QBR of 26.6)



Are you fabricating Bob's QBR, or getting it from Cowboys.com? His current quarterback rating, while not stellar, is 84.1... above Flacco... above Rothlisburger... abpve Kaepernick... above Sheli Manning... and even above Tom Brady.

That's twice, I believe, you have cited this bogus stat... So... tell me... why should I have any confidence in anything you say????

Because it's true. I should have said "TOTAL QBR", but I guess you thought I meant QB rating.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr

He's one of the worst in the league thus far.

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Postby skinsfan#33 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:51 pm

Deadskins wrote:
skinsfan#33 wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
skinsfan#33 wrote:Had that 30 yard scramble and fumble happened last year he would have been ruled down because he gave himself up.

Nope, that rule's been the same for at least 10 years.

Nope, as I said it was changed in the off season. A couple of years ago Victor Cruise caught a pass in a two minute fill from Eli dove to the ground and left the football on the ground. Since he had never been touched the Cardinals pounced on the ball. The refs have the ball to the Giants because they said VC had declared him self down.

This rule was changed during the off season.

No, it wasn't. That was just the refs giving the vaGiants a break. Also, the rules are different for a scrambling QB, than they are for anybody else. To give himself up, a QB must slide feet first. That has been the rule for at least 10 years.


Everybit of that is incorrect including the part about the only way a QB can declare himself down is by sliding feet first. How about taking a knee? Victory formation?

Chris Cooley said it on air during the game that he thought that Robert was down prior to the fumble because he had declared himself down. Then later this week he was imformed that the rule had in fact changed during the off season and admitted he was wrong.

And there aren't different rules for "scrambling QBs". There different rules for a player running a football (weathe that player is RG3, AP, or Peyton Manning) then there are for a QB attempting to make a pass from the pocket.

I would bet that you still believe you are correct and that is fine.
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Postby skinsfan#33 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:00 pm

StorminMormon86 wrote:
Countertrey wrote:
StorminMormon86 wrote: (despite what some say on here, his "improvement" has been less than stellar, with a QBR of 26.6)



Are you fabricating Bob's QBR, or getting it from Cowboys.com? His current quarterback rating, while not stellar, is 84.1... above Flacco... above Rothlisburger... abpve Kaepernick... above Sheli Manning... and even above Tom Brady.

That's twice, I believe, you have cited this bogus stat... So... tell me... why should I have any confidence in anything you say????

Because it's true. I should have said "TOTAL QBR", but I guess you thought I meant QB rating.


http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr

He's one of the worst in the league thus far.


That Total QBR thing is an ESPN only deal and it is based more on subjective things than the traditional QB rating is based.

Personally I don't think it is anything but an ESPN promotional "look at us" tool. Does it have some merit, sure, but it needs some tweeking and until it becomes the standard it will just be a quirking ESPN gimmick.

But lets assume it is credibl. He showed an improvement from week 1 to week 2 and then regressed in week three. Anyone that watched him play all three games knows that is not the case.
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Postby Countertrey » Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:25 pm

sf#33 is far gentler than I... thank you, sir.
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Postby riggofan » Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:45 pm

skinsfan#33 wrote:But lets assume it is credibl. He showed an improvement from week 1 to week 2 and then regressed in week three. Anyone that watched him play all three games knows that is not the case.


LOL. That about it sums it up.

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