How Long Should They Play Griffin Without Improvement?

Talk about the Washington Redskins here. Do you bleed burgundy and gold?
#33
Posts: 4084
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 8:44 am

Postby skinsfan#33 » Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:57 am

StorminMormon86 wrote:
HEROHAMO wrote:
StorminMormon86 wrote:Some fans just cannot admit or accept that Griffin has not returned to form. Not yet, anway.


Its pretty obvious you think that we should have started Kirk Cousins.

However what if Kirk had started and we still had the same record of 0-3?

I've never said that. I just don't like the fact that certain fans keep making excuses for Griffin, he's obviously not playing at full form. Nothing more, nothing less. Although I do strongly believe had Cousins started the first four we would be sitting at 2-2 right now.


Which one of the three losses would Kirk have been the difference on?

But lets assume we had started Cousins and he had gone 2-2 (i doubt that would have been the case, but we will assume it just for this) we would have been going into the break and RG3 wouldn't have had and playing time yet.

So coming out of the bye we would be facing the Cowgirls, Bears, Denver, and Charger with an RG3 that would be playing like he did the first four games and the results would have been four straight losses (or 1-3 at best). That would put us optimitically at 3-5.

Now that RG3 has four games under his belt and two weeks to prepare for the Turds I can see a win there, win against the Bears, loss to the Broncos, and a win against the Charger. However, for this I will be a bit pessimistic and say we drop one of the two games against the Bears or Chargers. So the record would be 3-5. Same record, but with RG3 having eight games under his belt vice four.

Starting RG3 was the correct choice.

I'm not making excuses for Robert. He had to work through his lack of confidence in his knee, but he could have played better, but he could have played worse.
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain"
(It is time to roll the dice) Tai'shar Manetheren

"Duty is heavier than a Mountain, Death is lighter than a feather" Tai'shar Malkier

RIP James Oliver Rigney, Jr. 1948-2007

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 1547
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:23 pm
Location: Pasadena, MD

Postby StorminMormon86 » Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:01 am

skinsfan#33 wrote:
StorminMormon86 wrote:
HEROHAMO wrote:
StorminMormon86 wrote:Some fans just cannot admit or accept that Griffin has not returned to form. Not yet, anway.


Its pretty obvious you think that we should have started Kirk Cousins.

However what if Kirk had started and we still had the same record of 0-3?

I've never said that. I just don't like the fact that certain fans keep making excuses for Griffin, he's obviously not playing at full form. Nothing more, nothing less. Although I do strongly believe had Cousins started the first four we would be sitting at 2-2 right now.


Which one of the three losses would Kirk have been the difference on?

But lets assume we had started Cousins and he had gone 2-2 (i doubt that would have been the case, but we will assume it just for this) we would have been going into the break and RG3 wouldn't have had and playing time yet.

So coming out of the bye we would be facing the Cowgirls, Bears, Denver, and Charger with an RG3 that would be playing like he did the first four games and the results would have been four straight losses (or 1-3 at best). That would put us optimitically at 3-5.

Now that RG3 has four games under his belt and two weeks to prepare for the Turds I can see a win there, win against the Bears, loss to the Broncos, and a win against the Charger. However, for this I will be a bit pessimistic and say we drop one of the two games against the Bears or Chargers. So the record would be 3-5. Same record, but with RG3 having eight games under his belt vice four.

Starting RG3 was the correct choice.

I'm not making excuses for Robert. He had to work through his lack of confidence in his knee, but he could have played better, but he could have played worse.

We would have won the Philly game had Cousins started, IMO. The rest is pure speculation as to how well RG3 would have played after resting for a few weeks.

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 1839
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:44 am
Location: Houston, TX

Postby markshark84 » Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:17 am

skinsfan#33 wrote:
StorminMormon86 wrote:
HEROHAMO wrote:
StorminMormon86 wrote:Some fans just cannot admit or accept that Griffin has not returned to form. Not yet, anway.


Its pretty obvious you think that we should have started Kirk Cousins.

However what if Kirk had started and we still had the same record of 0-3?

I've never said that. I just don't like the fact that certain fans keep making excuses for Griffin, he's obviously not playing at full form. Nothing more, nothing less. Although I do strongly believe had Cousins started the first four we would be sitting at 2-2 right now.



Now that RG3 has four games under his belt and two weeks to prepare for the Turds I can see a win there, win against the Bears, loss to the Broncos, and a win against the Charger. However, for this I will be a bit pessimistic and say we drop one of the two games against the Bears or Chargers. So the record would be 3-5. Same record, but with RG3 having eight games under his belt vice four.


I have seen a lot of "optimistic" posts, but this one takes the cake. "Pessimistic" is going 1-1 against the bears and chargers??????

We are 1-3 against opponents having a combined record of 3-8 (not counting the skins games). Yet you see us going 3-1 (at worst 2-2) against teams with a combined record of 11-5? Outside of pure home-team prejudice, what actual facts did you use to forumulate that conclusion? I'd love to know.

After all, OAK (one of the 2 or 3 WORST teams in the NFL) basically GAVE us that game --- they didn't have their starting QB OR RB. And it was still close!!! Our D (which is still the #1 concern regardless of the paragraph below) was only solid due to the opponent and OAK's offensive losses (QB, RB).

The fact is RGIII's play is still VERY concerning. IMHO, the best indicator of whether a QB is playing well (while not perfect, the best anyone has come out with thus far) --- ESPN's QBR stat ---- RGIII has a collective QBR this year of 29.1; last year it was 73.2. That is a HUGE difference. He still is having trouble eluding defenders in the pocket, his lateral movement is still lacking, and he has lost his explosiveness; however, his downfield passing of over 15 yards appears to be improving, so there's that I guess. Regardless he is still isn't even remotely close to the player he was last year. Honestly, I would put him in the bottom 10 starting QBs based on his play THIS SEASON. I'm not sure how anyone can argue this.
RIP Sean Taylor. You will be missed.

CKRGiii
Posts: 4877
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:56 pm
Location: 505 New Mexico repn

Postby cowboykillerzRGiii » Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:26 am

Did you watch the game? The 30 yard play where helu hurdles a defender was made only because rgiii was able to "elude" the defenders
#21 forever in our hearts
...and yet ANOTHER record setting performance by "RG3 the third"!!!!
“I wanted to just… put his lights out ….because, you know, …Dallas sucks…” - Dexter Manley

Hog
Online
User avatar
Posts: 5165
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 4:29 pm
Location: Montclair, Virginia

Postby riggofan » Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:20 pm

StorminMormon86 wrote:We would have won the Philly game had Cousins started, IMO. The rest is pure speculation as to how well RG3 would have played after resting for a few weeks.


:roll: Come on, man. What was Cousins going to do? Run out on the field and tackle McCoy? Recover Alfred Morris' fumble?

We didn't lose to Philly just because RGIII was rusty. Those guys completely steam rolled us. If Cousins had started that game, we probably would could just as well have lost 33-17 instead of 33-27.

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 1547
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:23 pm
Location: Pasadena, MD

Postby StorminMormon86 » Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:26 pm

riggofan wrote:
StorminMormon86 wrote:We would have won the Philly game had Cousins started, IMO. The rest is pure speculation as to how well RG3 would have played after resting for a few weeks.


:roll: Come on, man. What was Cousins going to do? Run out on the field and tackle McCoy? Recover Alfred Morris' fumble?

We didn't lose to Philly just because RGIII was rusty. Those guys completely steam rolled us. If Cousins had started that game, we probably would could just as well have lost 33-17 instead of 33-27.

Philly was out of steam at the half. Completely lackluster. Had we not had what seemed like a thousand 3 and outs, we would have won that game. That game was not as much of a beat down as it appeared to be. We almost came back to win it.

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 1547
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:23 pm
Location: Pasadena, MD

Postby StorminMormon86 » Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:36 pm

markshark84 wrote:The fact is RGIII's play is still VERY concerning. IMHO, the best indicator of whether a QB is playing well (while not perfect, the best anyone has come out with thus far) --- ESPN's QBR stat ---- RGIII has a collective QBR this year of 29.1; last year it was 73.2. That is a HUGE difference. He still is having trouble eluding defenders in the pocket, his lateral movement is still lacking, and he has lost his explosiveness; however, his downfield passing of over 15 yards appears to be improving, so there's that I guess. Regardless he is still isn't even remotely close to the player he was last year. Honestly, I would put him in the bottom 10 starting QBs based on his play THIS SEASON. I'm not sure how anyone can argue this.

You'll still have people who will argue this point and make excuses for him. "It was his 4th preseason game, coming off of surgery, bad o-line protection, playcalling, the knee brace, etc." I agree with everything you said here. I haven't seen any improvement from last week to yesterday. Sure we won the game and our defense stepped up. But let's not kid ourselves. We only put up 3 freaking points on offense in the first half. That's bad.

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 1839
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:44 am
Location: Houston, TX

Postby markshark84 » Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:29 pm

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:Did you watch the game? The 30 yard play where helu hurdles a defender was made only because rgiii was able to "elude" the defenders


Really? That was 1 play.... :roll: 1.single.play. That's it. That's all you have. 1 out of 31 drop backs against one of arguably the worst teams in the NFL. What about the other 30!!!!! Blah.

Meanwhile, how many times has he been chased down by a DL when trying to turn the corner? How many sacks has he avoided using his legs as he did last year? How many plays from nothing has he made solely on his athletic ability as he did last year? After all, isn't everyone saying he's 100%?

For any QB, you can always point to at least 1 or 2 plays, but that is useless. The NFL is about CONSISTENCY. RGIII has made a couple (and honestly, that is what I counted, 2) solid, turn nothing into something, plays this season ---- but are YOU watching the games?????? I think it is grossly obvious something is missing. Go back and watch the final 5 games (excluding KCs vs. CLE) of last year and tell me there isn't a HUGE difference. Not just huge, but concerning.

I bet Morris can see the difference --- now that he's running against 8 man fronts on 1st (and mostly 2nd) downs and seeing Ds where there OLBs have no problems cheating inside on running downs.

You can attempt to fool yourself all you want. Hopefully he will bounce back in time to where you can pretend it never happened. I hope that is the case, but if you don't see the difference, those B&G colored glasses are making you blind.
RIP Sean Taylor. You will be missed.

#33
Posts: 4084
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 8:44 am

Postby skinsfan#33 » Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:32 pm

StorminMormon86 wrote:
riggofan wrote:
StorminMormon86 wrote:We would have won the Philly game had Cousins started, IMO. The rest is pure speculation as to how well RG3 would have played after resting for a few weeks.


:roll: Come on, man. What was Cousins going to do? Run out on the field and tackle McCoy? Recover Alfred Morris' fumble?

We didn't lose to Philly just because RGIII was rusty. Those guys completely steam rolled us. If Cousins had started that game, we probably would could just as well have lost 33-17 instead of 33-27.

Philly was out of steam at the half. Completely lackluster. Had we not had what seemed like a thousand 3 and outs, we would have won that game. That game was not as much of a beat down as it appeared to be. We almost came back to win it.


This is simply revisionist history. You need to go back and watch that game again. The only reason Philly didn't bury us is becuase they took their foot off the gas in the second half. At no point were we ever in that game.

There is no way anyone can tell if Cousins would have helped us win any of the games, but Cousins wouldn't have prevented either of Morris' fumbles. And he certainly doesn't play defense (they were completely outplayed by the Philly O).

Philly stomped a mud hole in us! The finale score was decieving. If you want to say Cousins might have won the Detroit game then I can say you might have a point, but the Phily game and Green Bay game were just butt kickings.
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain"
(It is time to roll the dice) Tai'shar Manetheren

"Duty is heavier than a Mountain, Death is lighter than a feather" Tai'shar Malkier

RIP James Oliver Rigney, Jr. 1948-2007

CKRGiii
Posts: 4877
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:56 pm
Location: 505 New Mexico repn

Postby cowboykillerzRGiii » Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:34 pm

:yawn:
#21 forever in our hearts
...and yet ANOTHER record setting performance by "RG3 the third"!!!!
“I wanted to just… put his lights out ….because, you know, …Dallas sucks…” - Dexter Manley

Hog
Online
User avatar
Posts: 5165
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 4:29 pm
Location: Montclair, Virginia

Postby riggofan » Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:34 pm

skinsfan#33 wrote:
StorminMormon86 wrote:
riggofan wrote:
StorminMormon86 wrote:We would have won the Philly game had Cousins started, IMO. The rest is pure speculation as to how well RG3 would have played after resting for a few weeks.


:roll: Come on, man. What was Cousins going to do? Run out on the field and tackle McCoy? Recover Alfred Morris' fumble?

We didn't lose to Philly just because RGIII was rusty. Those guys completely steam rolled us. If Cousins had started that game, we probably would could just as well have lost 33-17 instead of 33-27.

Philly was out of steam at the half. Completely lackluster. Had we not had what seemed like a thousand 3 and outs, we would have won that game. That game was not as much of a beat down as it appeared to be. We almost came back to win it.


This is simply revisionist history. You need to go back and watch that game again. The only reason Philly didn't bury us is becuase they took their foot off the gas in the second half. At no point were we ever in that game.

There is no way anyone can tell if Cousins would have helped us win any of the games, but Cousins wouldn't have prevented either of Morris' fumbles. And he certainly doesn't play defense (they were completely outplayed by the Philly O).

Philly stomped a mud hole in us! The finale score was decieving. If you want to say Cousins might have won the Detroit game then I can say you might have a point, but the Phily game and Green Bay game were just butt kickings.


THANK YOU.

#33
Posts: 4084
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 8:44 am

Postby skinsfan#33 » Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:06 pm

markshark84 wrote:
I have seen a lot of "optimistic" posts, but this one takes the cake. "Pessimistic" is going 1-1 against the bears and chargers??????


That is how I feel. I always feel we should beet the Bears and they have only beeten the Vikings, Pburge (both bad teams), and the Bungles. I'm more concerned about the Chargers (2-2) who can only beet (barely) NFCE teams. You would think it would be the other way around, but that is how I feel.

markshark84 wrote:We are 1-3 against opponents having a combined record of 3-8 (not counting the skins games).

Actually we are 1-3 against teams that are a combined 6-9. You can't throw out how they did against us since they played us.

markshark84 wrote:
After all, OAK (one of the 2 or 3 WORST teams in the NFL) basically GAVE us that game --- they didn't have their starting QB OR RB. And it was still close!!! Our D (which is still the #1 concern regardless of the paragraph below) was only solid due to the opponent and OAK's offensive losses (QB, RB).


I agree with most of this. Thge game was much closer than it should have been. You can let a guy have a free run at your punter (first TD) and if a ball hits you dead in your hands you need to catch the ball. If Rak doesn't Carlos Rogers that ball the Raiders don't score on the next play.

markshark84 wrote:
The fact is RGIII's play is still VERY concerning.



I'm not concerned with him. He will get his grove going soon enough and has been improving each game.

markshark84 wrote:IMHO, the best indicator of whether a QB is playing well (while not perfect, the best anyone has come out with thus far) --- ESPN's QBR stat -


Do you honestly understand the ESPN QBR stat, bacuse if yoiu do I think you are the only one in the world. I don't even think ESPN understands the QBR stat. It has Jake Locker rated higher than Romo, Brady,or Aaron Rodgers. It has Andy Dalton higher than Russel Wilson. And it had RG3 rated below Eli. I'm sorry, I still feel it is a gimmick and not a true reflection of how a player is playing and it isn't even close.

You like it, great. But it isn't the standard yet and may never be.
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain"
(It is time to roll the dice) Tai'shar Manetheren

"Duty is heavier than a Mountain, Death is lighter than a feather" Tai'shar Malkier

RIP James Oliver Rigney, Jr. 1948-2007

#33
Posts: 4084
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 8:44 am

Postby skinsfan#33 » Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:08 pm

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote::yawn:

WTFE
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain"
(It is time to roll the dice) Tai'shar Manetheren

"Duty is heavier than a Mountain, Death is lighter than a feather" Tai'shar Malkier

RIP James Oliver Rigney, Jr. 1948-2007

|||
Posts: 4334
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 1:34 am
Location: SANTA ANA,CA

Postby HEROHAMO » Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:40 pm

People we won our fist game. Our focus should be on the Cowgirls. How to stop their offense and score on their defense.
Sean Taylor starting free safety Heavens team!

21 Forever

"The show must go on."

Hog
Online
User avatar
Posts: 5165
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 4:29 pm
Location: Montclair, Virginia

Postby riggofan » Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:59 pm

HEROHAMO wrote:People we won our fist game. Our focus should be on the Cowgirls. How to stop their offense and score on their defense.


Apparently all we need to do is fire Jim Haslett and bench RGIII. Recipe for a comeback!!!

Return to Hog Wash - Washington Redskins Football