How Long Should They Play Griffin Without Improvement?

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Postby cowboykillerzRGiii » Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:51 am

I won't.mention his ~40 yard run (ending in fumble) so u can keep your pessimism.
This forum isn't a place for me to cry about.the skins.. we are all used to a horrible team, last year was awesome and we all hope we can remain competitive. When we beat Dullass ill be driving the bus, feel free to hope on once we are top of the east!
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...and yet ANOTHER record setting performance by "RG3 the third"!!!!
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Postby skinsfan#33 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:55 am

Deadskins wrote:
markshark84 wrote:
skinsfan#33 wrote:Actually we are 1-3 against teams that are a combined 6-9. You can't throw out how they did against us since they played us.


You can't count our games because we are the variable constant. Including our games doesn't show how they do against our competition. It is useless to include our games --- we don't play ourselves.

If you don't count our games, then we are 0-0. 8)

That is exactly what I was thinking
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Postby cowboykillerzRGiii » Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:56 am

The coaches are slowly letting him do more w his feet. Designed runs...Ds will be forced to gameplan for him still. I'm glad we are playing it safe and not.letting Robert make the calls w how ready he is. Scared? No. Contained? Yes.
#21 forever in our hearts
...and yet ANOTHER record setting performance by "RG3 the third"!!!!
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Re: How Long Should They Play Griffin Without Improvement?

Postby SkinsJock » Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:01 pm

OldSchool wrote:I question Griffin's readiness to play physically, mentally and his ability to deal with those issues while trying to upgrade his pocket passing skills. His performances in the two games were similar, he was utterly inactive until garbage time. Feel good Griffin completions against sated defenses playing out the game in prevent seemed useful in game 1 but after a nearly identical hapless 3 quarters in the second game I've seen enough, it's time to sit him down to mend and work on his mechanics and other issues.

The Skins blew their chance to defeat the Seahawks by keeping the Griffin in the game when he was hurt and ineffective. Instead of putting Griffin on the bench the Skins lost the game and Griffin magnified his injury. After watching him in two games the Skins need to show they learned from their playoff debacle. He isn't getting it done and the problem obviously more than rust and he is already talking about running more and carrying the team, a recipe for another disaster.

Aside from Griffin's well being the season is just 2 games old and the Skins need to put Cousins on the field and see if he can keep them in the playoff race. Griffin doesn't have his great speed and mobility now and is currently ineffective without it, he could help his team and himself by taking a seat.

How many games do the rest of you think the Skins should give Griffin before making a change?


I think the Redskins made the right choice in not playing RG3 in the pre season and they should keep playing him and trying to get him back to being the great QB he's going to be for this franchise

I think your assessment of RG3 and where he's at as far as his mobility and his mental well being are completely wrong

:lol:
Minds are like parachutes, they only work when they are open

Robert has to make a huge effort to show he's got what it takes to be a future great QB - we need the real RG3 not the hyped version

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Postby emoses14 » Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:34 pm

on Griffin's improvement:

http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-reds ... w-rg-iii-3

1. Maybe Griffin isn’t quite what he was pre-knee injury, but he’s getting closer. By the way, you get there by playing because it’s as much a mental exercise as it is physical when coming back from a knee injury. Regardless, Griffin had several plays that showed his legs are becoming assets once again, by extending plays whether with a slide in the pocket or by eluding a blitzing corner. Yes, there were a couple times in which the Raiders pressured him into throwaways instead of scrambles. Other quarterbacks would not have escaped those situations.

2. Griffin still has a tendency to lock on a target or, at the least, not influence defenders with his eyes. It’s among the areas he’ll need to keep focusing on moving forward if he wants to improve in the pocket. Every game you see a defender get a good break in zone coverage because of this, leading to a breakup. Linebacker Kevin Burnett dropped into coverage on one zone (in a curl area) and broke early toward receiver Pierre Garcon because Griffin eyed him the whole way. Griffin had less of a target and threw wide (and incomplete). It wasn’t the only example. It also happened early on an out to Leonard Hankerson; the corner sat on the route as he read Griffin’s eyes and forced a tougher throw.

3. On the fourth-and-3 play, the Redskins had a good play called but Griffin failed to throw the ball. Safety Charles Woodson was unblocked because the Raiders overloaded that side -- and all the linemen were engaged. That put it on Griffin. Santana Moss, in a stack formation on the left, was open after getting a screen. He was not open long, but he was open. Griffin started to throw, but pulled it back down and anticipated a deeper route coming open. He did not have that sort of time; Woodson drilled him.

4. There’s a lot to like about what Griffin did against a solid defense. He’s limiting his hits with unnecessary scrambles. The Raiders played a lot of zone, which can be tougher to run against or at least leads to bigger hits -- defenders already are staring at him and can gather more momentum coming forward. On one bootleg to the left, Griffin had room to run had he wanted it -- the corner was about 10 yards off. Griffin likely would have scrambled for seven or eight yards. Instead, he threw back to the middle to a wide open Niles Paul who gained 16. That also could stem from knowing the offense better and trusting where players will be. He also had another run-and-dump pass to Roy Helu (not that one). This time, against a three-man rush (and zone coverage), he started up through the left side. Two linebackers, including Burnett, took off after Helu. Burnett then stopped and ran at Griffin, who finessed a nice pass to Helu on the run for a 15-yard gain. Again: his legs don’t need to equal long runs by him. But they were a factor. He did take off a little early on his two-yard scramble (ending in the ugly plop down slide). Had he kept his eyes downfield, he had either Paul or Garcon as legitimate options. That’s a tougher one though.

5. The other Helu pass play was vintage Griffin. The corner who blitzed, Mike Jenkins, did not plan to do so. Nobody released to his side – and no one was wide. So he blitzed. Griffin pump-faked as he looked downfield. At the last second, he turned to his right and spotted Jenkins. After stepping up, Griffin spun out and ran to his right and completed the pass to Helu. Nearly half of his 227 passing yards occurred directly because of his ability to extend plays.

6. On Griffin’s two zone read runs, he looked plenty quick. The difference? How the defensive back played it. The first time, Griffin tried to pull corner Tracy Porter inside with a fake and then cut wide around a Darrel Young block. But Porter did not bite and tackled Griffin outside for a one-yard gain. Next time, Griffin made the same move on Woodson’s side as he came up from the deep half. But Woodson was sprinting hard to the inside so Griffin could swerve wide for seven yards. His quickness looked good on that run.

7. Two other plays stood out because of Griffin’s effort in the pocket: The 33-yard pass to tight end Logan Paulsen and a 16-yarder to Garcon. In both cases Griffin had to slide to his left under pressure. He kept the ball up and his eyes downfield, allowing him to see his receivers. He threw a bullet to Paulsen back across his body. And you can tell he has a different trust with Garcon than others. This play shows why. Garcon had to jump up to grab the high throw right in front of the safety. The Redskins don’t have another receiver who would have made that play (though tight end Jordan Reed makes those grabs too).

8. Griffin was better on third-down passing in the second half, completing three of his first four (3-of-6 for the final two quarters total). His five-yard touchdown pass to Garcon occurred on third down; a good throw on time, but also with a linebacker headed his way. Griffin never looked at him.
I know he got a pretty good zip on the ball. He has a quick release. . . once I seen a coupla' throws, I was just like 'Yeah, he's that dude.'"

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Postby Deadskins » Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:54 pm

markshark84 wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
markshark84 wrote:But, as far as CHI -- how do you think our O will do against their D? What about Cutler against our D? Our D has historically done poorly against top QBs.

And Cutler is a top QB? Please! We will beat the bears. I can't even remember the last time we lost to them.


Not saying this to be a dick and am saying this in full sincerity -- but what's your reasoning? How do you figure? I honestly would like to hear valid, concrete points (not the optimistic, based on nothing factual "RGIII will be 100% and awesome again by then) arguement commonly provided.

The only common opponent we've had so far is the Lions, and we played them tougher than the Bears did. One of my best friends is a Bears fan, and I can tell you that the Bears are just not as good as you are making them out to be.
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Postby Irn-Bru » Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:02 pm

emoses14 wrote:on Griffin's improvement:

http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-reds ... w-rg-iii-3

1. Maybe Griffin isn’t quite what he was pre-knee injury, but he’s getting closer. By the way, you get there by playing because it’s as much a mental exercise as it is physical when coming back from a knee injury. Regardless, Griffin had several plays that showed his legs are becoming assets once again, by extending plays whether with a slide in the pocket or by eluding a blitzing corner. Yes, there were a couple times in which the Raiders pressured him into throwaways instead of scrambles. Other quarterbacks would not have escaped those situations.

2. Griffin still has a tendency to lock on a target or, at the least, not influence defenders with his eyes. It’s among the areas he’ll need to keep focusing on moving forward if he wants to improve in the pocket. Every game you see a defender get a good break in zone coverage because of this, leading to a breakup. Linebacker Kevin Burnett dropped into coverage on one zone (in a curl area) and broke early toward receiver Pierre Garcon because Griffin eyed him the whole way. Griffin had less of a target and threw wide (and incomplete). It wasn’t the only example. It also happened early on an out to Leonard Hankerson; the corner sat on the route as he read Griffin’s eyes and forced a tougher throw.

3. On the fourth-and-3 play, the Redskins had a good play called but Griffin failed to throw the ball. Safety Charles Woodson was unblocked because the Raiders overloaded that side -- and all the linemen were engaged. That put it on Griffin. Santana Moss, in a stack formation on the left, was open after getting a screen. He was not open long, but he was open. Griffin started to throw, but pulled it back down and anticipated a deeper route coming open. He did not have that sort of time; Woodson drilled him.

4. There’s a lot to like about what Griffin did against a solid defense. He’s limiting his hits with unnecessary scrambles. The Raiders played a lot of zone, which can be tougher to run against or at least leads to bigger hits -- defenders already are staring at him and can gather more momentum coming forward. On one bootleg to the left, Griffin had room to run had he wanted it -- the corner was about 10 yards off. Griffin likely would have scrambled for seven or eight yards. Instead, he threw back to the middle to a wide open Niles Paul who gained 16. That also could stem from knowing the offense better and trusting where players will be. He also had another run-and-dump pass to Roy Helu (not that one). This time, against a three-man rush (and zone coverage), he started up through the left side. Two linebackers, including Burnett, took off after Helu. Burnett then stopped and ran at Griffin, who finessed a nice pass to Helu on the run for a 15-yard gain. Again: his legs don’t need to equal long runs by him. But they were a factor. He did take off a little early on his two-yard scramble (ending in the ugly plop down slide). Had he kept his eyes downfield, he had either Paul or Garcon as legitimate options. That’s a tougher one though.

5. The other Helu pass play was vintage Griffin. The corner who blitzed, Mike Jenkins, did not plan to do so. Nobody released to his side – and no one was wide. So he blitzed. Griffin pump-faked as he looked downfield. At the last second, he turned to his right and spotted Jenkins. After stepping up, Griffin spun out and ran to his right and completed the pass to Helu. Nearly half of his 227 passing yards occurred directly because of his ability to extend plays.

6. On Griffin’s two zone read runs, he looked plenty quick. The difference? How the defensive back played it. The first time, Griffin tried to pull corner Tracy Porter inside with a fake and then cut wide around a Darrel Young block. But Porter did not bite and tackled Griffin outside for a one-yard gain. Next time, Griffin made the same move on Woodson’s side as he came up from the deep half. But Woodson was sprinting hard to the inside so Griffin could swerve wide for seven yards. His quickness looked good on that run.

7. Two other plays stood out because of Griffin’s effort in the pocket: The 33-yard pass to tight end Logan Paulsen and a 16-yarder to Garcon. In both cases Griffin had to slide to his left under pressure. He kept the ball up and his eyes downfield, allowing him to see his receivers. He threw a bullet to Paulsen back across his body. And you can tell he has a different trust with Garcon than others. This play shows why. Garcon had to jump up to grab the high throw right in front of the safety. The Redskins don’t have another receiver who would have made that play (though tight end Jordan Reed makes those grabs too).

8. Griffin was better on third-down passing in the second half, completing three of his first four (3-of-6 for the final two quarters total). His five-yard touchdown pass to Garcon occurred on third down; a good throw on time, but also with a linebacker headed his way. Griffin never looked at him.


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Postby StorminMormon86 » Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:22 pm

So where's this improvement during the first half of games?

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Postby SkinsJock » Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:19 pm

StorminMormon86 wrote:So where's this improvement during the first half of games?


the thread is about how long should we wait for RG3 to show that he's not the best QB for this offense ...

I think the answer is clear ... until he shows that he's not able to make the offense work - he is getting better and he will continue to do so as the offensive game plan starts to take advantage of his speed



RG3 is going to be great again ... and soon - no doubt in my mind :lol:
Minds are like parachutes, they only work when they are open

Robert has to make a huge effort to show he's got what it takes to be a future great QB - we need the real RG3 not the hyped version

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Postby Countertrey » Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:29 pm

emoses14 wrote:on Griffin's improvement:

http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-reds ... w-rg-iii-3

1. Maybe Griffin isn’t quite what he was pre-knee injury, but he’s getting closer. By the way, you get there by playing because it’s as much a mental exercise as it is physical when coming back from a knee injury. Regardless, Griffin had several plays that showed his legs are becoming assets once again, by extending plays whether with a slide in the pocket or by eluding a blitzing corner. Yes, there were a couple times in which the Raiders pressured him into throwaways instead of scrambles. Other quarterbacks would not have escaped those situations.

2. Griffin still has a tendency to lock on a target or, at the least, not influence defenders with his eyes. It’s among the areas he’ll need to keep focusing on moving forward if he wants to improve in the pocket. Every game you see a defender get a good break in zone coverage because of this, leading to a breakup. Linebacker Kevin Burnett dropped into coverage on one zone (in a curl area) and broke early toward receiver Pierre Garcon because Griffin eyed him the whole way. Griffin had less of a target and threw wide (and incomplete). It wasn’t the only example. It also happened early on an out to Leonard Hankerson; the corner sat on the route as he read Griffin’s eyes and forced a tougher throw.

3. On the fourth-and-3 play, the Redskins had a good play called but Griffin failed to throw the ball. Safety Charles Woodson was unblocked because the Raiders overloaded that side -- and all the linemen were engaged. That put it on Griffin. Santana Moss, in a stack formation on the left, was open after getting a screen. He was not open long, but he was open. Griffin started to throw, but pulled it back down and anticipated a deeper route coming open. He did not have that sort of time; Woodson drilled him.

4. There’s a lot to like about what Griffin did against a solid defense. He’s limiting his hits with unnecessary scrambles. The Raiders played a lot of zone, which can be tougher to run against or at least leads to bigger hits -- defenders already are staring at him and can gather more momentum coming forward. On one bootleg to the left, Griffin had room to run had he wanted it -- the corner was about 10 yards off. Griffin likely would have scrambled for seven or eight yards. Instead, he threw back to the middle to a wide open Niles Paul who gained 16. That also could stem from knowing the offense better and trusting where players will be. He also had another run-and-dump pass to Roy Helu (not that one). This time, against a three-man rush (and zone coverage), he started up through the left side. Two linebackers, including Burnett, took off after Helu. Burnett then stopped and ran at Griffin, who finessed a nice pass to Helu on the run for a 15-yard gain. Again: his legs don’t need to equal long runs by him. But they were a factor. He did take off a little early on his two-yard scramble (ending in the ugly plop down slide). Had he kept his eyes downfield, he had either Paul or Garcon as legitimate options. That’s a tougher one though.

5. The other Helu pass play was vintage Griffin. The corner who blitzed, Mike Jenkins, did not plan to do so. Nobody released to his side – and no one was wide. So he blitzed. Griffin pump-faked as he looked downfield. At the last second, he turned to his right and spotted Jenkins. After stepping up, Griffin spun out and ran to his right and completed the pass to Helu. Nearly half of his 227 passing yards occurred directly because of his ability to extend plays.

6. On Griffin’s two zone read runs, he looked plenty quick. The difference? How the defensive back played it. The first time, Griffin tried to pull corner Tracy Porter inside with a fake and then cut wide around a Darrel Young block. But Porter did not bite and tackled Griffin outside for a one-yard gain. Next time, Griffin made the same move on Woodson’s side as he came up from the deep half. But Woodson was sprinting hard to the inside so Griffin could swerve wide for seven yards. His quickness looked good on that run.

7. Two other plays stood out because of Griffin’s effort in the pocket: The 33-yard pass to tight end Logan Paulsen and a 16-yarder to Garcon. In both cases Griffin had to slide to his left under pressure. He kept the ball up and his eyes downfield, allowing him to see his receivers. He threw a bullet to Paulsen back across his body. And you can tell he has a different trust with Garcon than others. This play shows why. Garcon had to jump up to grab the high throw right in front of the safety. The Redskins don’t have another receiver who would have made that play (though tight end Jordan Reed makes those grabs too).

8. Griffin was better on third-down passing in the second half, completing three of his first four (3-of-6 for the final two quarters total). His five-yard touchdown pass to Garcon occurred on third down; a good throw on time, but also with a linebacker headed his way. Griffin never looked at him.


Outstanding analysis... =D>
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Postby Deadskins » Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:16 pm

Countertrey wrote:
emoses14 wrote:on Griffin's improvement:

http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-reds ... w-rg-iii-3

1. Maybe Griffin isn’t quite what he was pre-knee injury, but he’s getting closer. By the way, you get there by playing because it’s as much a mental exercise as it is physical when coming back from a knee injury. Regardless, Griffin had several plays that showed his legs are becoming assets once again, by extending plays whether with a slide in the pocket or by eluding a blitzing corner. Yes, there were a couple times in which the Raiders pressured him into throwaways instead of scrambles. Other quarterbacks would not have escaped those situations.

2. Griffin still has a tendency to lock on a target or, at the least, not influence defenders with his eyes. It’s among the areas he’ll need to keep focusing on moving forward if he wants to improve in the pocket. Every game you see a defender get a good break in zone coverage because of this, leading to a breakup. Linebacker Kevin Burnett dropped into coverage on one zone (in a curl area) and broke early toward receiver Pierre Garcon because Griffin eyed him the whole way. Griffin had less of a target and threw wide (and incomplete). It wasn’t the only example. It also happened early on an out to Leonard Hankerson; the corner sat on the route as he read Griffin’s eyes and forced a tougher throw.

3. On the fourth-and-3 play, the Redskins had a good play called but Griffin failed to throw the ball. Safety Charles Woodson was unblocked because the Raiders overloaded that side -- and all the linemen were engaged. That put it on Griffin. Santana Moss, in a stack formation on the left, was open after getting a screen. He was not open long, but he was open. Griffin started to throw, but pulled it back down and anticipated a deeper route coming open. He did not have that sort of time; Woodson drilled him.

4. There’s a lot to like about what Griffin did against a solid defense. He’s limiting his hits with unnecessary scrambles. The Raiders played a lot of zone, which can be tougher to run against or at least leads to bigger hits -- defenders already are staring at him and can gather more momentum coming forward. On one bootleg to the left, Griffin had room to run had he wanted it -- the corner was about 10 yards off. Griffin likely would have scrambled for seven or eight yards. Instead, he threw back to the middle to a wide open Niles Paul who gained 16. That also could stem from knowing the offense better and trusting where players will be. He also had another run-and-dump pass to Roy Helu (not that one). This time, against a three-man rush (and zone coverage), he started up through the left side. Two linebackers, including Burnett, took off after Helu. Burnett then stopped and ran at Griffin, who finessed a nice pass to Helu on the run for a 15-yard gain. Again: his legs don’t need to equal long runs by him. But they were a factor. He did take off a little early on his two-yard scramble (ending in the ugly plop down slide). Had he kept his eyes downfield, he had either Paul or Garcon as legitimate options. That’s a tougher one though.

5. The other Helu pass play was vintage Griffin. The corner who blitzed, Mike Jenkins, did not plan to do so. Nobody released to his side – and no one was wide. So he blitzed. Griffin pump-faked as he looked downfield. At the last second, he turned to his right and spotted Jenkins. After stepping up, Griffin spun out and ran to his right and completed the pass to Helu. Nearly half of his 227 passing yards occurred directly because of his ability to extend plays.

6. On Griffin’s two zone read runs, he looked plenty quick. The difference? How the defensive back played it. The first time, Griffin tried to pull corner Tracy Porter inside with a fake and then cut wide around a Darrel Young block. But Porter did not bite and tackled Griffin outside for a one-yard gain. Next time, Griffin made the same move on Woodson’s side as he came up from the deep half. But Woodson was sprinting hard to the inside so Griffin could swerve wide for seven yards. His quickness looked good on that run.

7. Two other plays stood out because of Griffin’s effort in the pocket: The 33-yard pass to tight end Logan Paulsen and a 16-yarder to Garcon. In both cases Griffin had to slide to his left under pressure. He kept the ball up and his eyes downfield, allowing him to see his receivers. He threw a bullet to Paulsen back across his body. And you can tell he has a different trust with Garcon than others. This play shows why. Garcon had to jump up to grab the high throw right in front of the safety. The Redskins don’t have another receiver who would have made that play (though tight end Jordan Reed makes those grabs too).

8. Griffin was better on third-down passing in the second half, completing three of his first four (3-of-6 for the final two quarters total). His five-yard touchdown pass to Garcon occurred on third down; a good throw on time, but also with a linebacker headed his way. Griffin never looked at him.


Outstanding analysis... =D>

You do realize that was John Keim, not emoses, right?
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Postby Countertrey » Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:00 pm

Deadskins wrote:
Countertrey wrote:
emoses14 wrote:on Griffin's improvement:

http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-reds ... w-rg-iii-3

1. Maybe Griffin isn’t quite what he was pre-knee injury<snip>.


Outstanding analysis... =D>

You do realize that was John Keim, not emoses, right?
Of course... I've seen emo's writing... (not that it's bad, emo...) :wink:
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Postby emoses14 » Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:27 pm

Countertrey wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
Countertrey wrote:
emoses14 wrote:on Griffin's improvement:

http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-reds ... w-rg-iii-3

1. Maybe Griffin isn’t quite what he was pre-knee injury<snip>.


Outstanding analysis... =D>

You do realize that was John Keim, not emoses, right?
Of course... I've seen emo's writing... (not that it's bad, emo...) :wink:


Uhm, thanks?
:?
I know he got a pretty good zip on the ball. He has a quick release. . . once I seen a coupla' throws, I was just like 'Yeah, he's that dude.'"

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Postby Countertrey » Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:56 pm

Why, you're welcome! O:)
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Postby OldSchool » Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:40 pm

I want to see Griffin benched, I've seen enough of these 5 games to conclude the Skins don't have a chance with him. He doesn't read the defense and go through his progressions as fast as a pocket passer needs to be effective. Cousins does that a lot better because he had to play in college and make to the NFL.

Griffin was blessed with incredible mobility so he could extend plays long enough to wait for a early open guy or run. He can't play backyard ball now with his pocket passer legs, he needs to read and release very quickly and accurately and he doesn't do it well enough to win. Cousins MIGHT be good enough to help the Skins win and get back into the division race. The division is weak the Skins still have a chance. Put Cousins and see if the start winning, you can always go back to pocket passing 101 with Griffin later in the year if the Skins are actually out of it.

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