Pastor Turned Atheist

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Re: Pastor Turned Atheist

Postby crazyhorse1 » Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:40 am

What amazing ability and power I have. If I say the word "God," he pops into existence. Now I'll create a unicorn--I don't know diddly about unicorns.

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Re: Pastor Turned Atheist

Postby Deadskins » Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:25 am

crazyhorse1 wrote:What amazing ability and power I have. If I say the word "God," he pops into existence. Now I'll create a unicorn--I don't know diddly about unicorns.

Nope.

Your invoking God doesn't make Him exist, but it does contradict your supposed non-belief in Him. So I mis-spoke. I should have said your statement requires the belief in the existence of God.
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Re: Pastor Turned Atheist

Postby Cappster » Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:13 am

Agnostic Atheist- Lack of belief in god

Gnostic Atheist- Knowing that god does not exist.

Both do not see the evidence for god's existence, but an agnostic is open to the possibility that they may be wrong while an gnostic is not. It's kind of like a person of faith believing that god exists compared to knowing that god exists.
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Re: Pastor Turned Atheist

Postby Deadskins » Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:17 am

Cappster wrote:Agnostic Atheist- Lack of belief in god

Gnostic Atheist- Knowing that god does not exist.

Both do not see the evidence for god's existence, but an agnostic is open to the possibility that they may be wrong while an gnostic is not. It's kind of like a person of faith believing that god exists compared to knowing that god exists.

How can a person know that God does not exist?
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Re: Pastor Turned Atheist

Postby SkinsJock » Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:28 pm

Cappster wrote:Agnostic Atheist- Lack of belief in god

Gnostic Atheist- Knowing that god does not exist.

Both do not see the evidence for god's existence, but an agnostic is open to the possibility that they may be wrong while an gnostic is not.
It's kind of like a person of faith believing that god exists compared to knowing that god exists.


:D thanks - that clears that up for me … big time :shock:
We are lucky to have Cousins - Griffin will become the better QB as he learns to use the pocket & read defenses

Until then, I hope that Cousins takes full advantage of this opportunity

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Re: Pastor Turned Atheist

Postby crazyhorse1 » Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:29 pm

How can a person know that God does not exist?

I don't know, big guy. But how could anyone say it's probable.

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Re: Pastor Turned Atheist

Postby Deadskins » Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:18 pm

crazyhorse1 wrote:How can a person know that God does not exist?

I don't know, big guy. But how could anyone say it's probable.

Say what's probable?
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Re: Pastor Turned Atheist

Postby Cappster » Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:09 am

Deadskins wrote:
Cappster wrote:Agnostic Atheist- Lack of belief in god

Gnostic Atheist- Knowing that god does not exist.

Both do not see the evidence for god's existence, but an agnostic is open to the possibility that they may be wrong while an gnostic is not. It's kind of like a person of faith believing that god exists compared to knowing that god exists.

How can a person know that God does not exist?


It's the same as someone claiming to know, without any doubt, that god does exist. The lack of tangible evidence for the gnostic atheist type usually leads them to the conclusion that they *know* god doesn't exists. The gnostic believer and gnostic unbeliever both have deeply flawed spiritual viewpoints as god has yet to conclusively be proven or disproven. I am in the camp of being open to the possibility of a god existing; however, given the lack of evidence for such a being existing, the percentages of one existing is probably in the single percentile. All this god has to do is give us all the same *vision* to prove that it is real. I won't hold my breath for that to happen.
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Re: Pastor Turned Atheist

Postby SkinsJock » Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:17 am

I have no problem with the fact that there are people who know that God exists and that there are people who believe God exists …
and
that the same holds true for those that do not know or believe that God exists

I choose to believe in God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit

I don't need "proof"

I also happen to think that doubting that God exists is, in a way, believing in God
We are lucky to have Cousins - Griffin will become the better QB as he learns to use the pocket & read defenses

Until then, I hope that Cousins takes full advantage of this opportunity

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Re: Pastor Turned Atheist

Postby Cappster » Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:42 am

SkinsJock wrote:I have no problem with the fact that there are people who know that God exists and that there are people who believe God exists …
and
that the same holds true for those that do not know or believe that God exists

I choose to believe in God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit

I don't need "proof"

I also happen to think that doubting that God exists is, in a way, believing in God


If lacking belief in a god is a way of believing in such a deity then abstinence is a sex position. It just doesn't add up to any logical sense. I do have a problem with people who say they believe in god 100% as this leads down the slippery slope of them talking to god and doing what god tells them. It's called insanity. If I said Christopher Hitchens and I talked daily (an atheist who died a couple of years ago) then I would be viewed as being wacky and possessed by satan. If I say I am talking to god and he told me to run for public office, that is considered normal. If god told me to murder my son to prove my love for him, I would be locked up in a looney bin.

Also, as an example, imagine that there is a Muslim SkinsJock that is just like you. He doesn't need proof that Allah exists, because he chooses to just have faith. You both claim to have the correct faith and that you both were fortunate enough to receive the revelation although the two religions aka god's are not the same. If you believe that muslim SkinsJock is wrong and he believes you are wrong then where do you go from there? Could it be that whoever provides some tangible evidence for the existence of their god wins?
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Re: Pastor Turned Atheist

Postby Deadskins » Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:01 am

Cappster wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
Cappster wrote:Agnostic Atheist- Lack of belief in god

Gnostic Atheist- Knowing that god does not exist.

Both do not see the evidence for god's existence, but an agnostic is open to the possibility that they may be wrong while an gnostic is not. It's kind of like a person of faith believing that god exists compared to knowing that god exists.

How can a person know that God does not exist?


It's the same as someone claiming to know, without any doubt, that god does exist.

No, I don't think it is. There is no way to prove the non-existence of God, but a reasonable person can have an experience that proves, for them, the existence of God. I know this because I am such a person.

Cappster wrote:The lack of tangible evidence for the gnostic atheist type usually leads them to the conclusion that they *know* god doesn't exists. The gnostic believer and gnostic unbeliever both have deeply flawed spiritual viewpoints as god has yet to conclusively be proven or disproven. I am in the camp of being open to the possibility of a god existing; however, given the lack of evidence for such a being existing, the percentages of one existing is probably in the single percentile. All this god has to do is give us all the same *vision* to prove that it is real. I won't hold my breath for that to happen.

Just because the evidence is not tangible, or has not been revealed to someone, doesn't mean that the evidence does not exist. I shared my experience in another thread, but I will recap it here for the sake of this discussion. My mother told me on the night she died that God was calling her to Him. Now, by itself, that statement doesn't constitute proof, but the fact that she was 500 miles away at the time, and not speaking to me through any electronic medium, but rather it was her spirit that told me this, does. At least for me it does. Could I have hallucinated the entire experience, coincidentally, on the night she died? I suppose it's possible, but it's much more probable that I didn't. This is why I can state that I know God exists.
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Re: Pastor Turned Atheist

Postby Cappster » Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:48 pm

Science has yet to disprove the existence of god, but that doesn't mean it can't or won't happen one day. I am not ruling out that some parallel universe exists, but if one does exist that doesn't mean that god is in control of it. You had a personal experience such like Moses had a personal experience. What I am saying is that if god wants to be known, come out and give us all the same personal experience of its existence. I've had Deja Vu before, but does that mean I was able to see into the future or that god was sending me a message? And you stating that you know for certain god exists off of an untestable personal experience I think is a bit much.
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Re: Pastor Turned Atheist

Postby Deadskins » Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:17 pm

Cappster wrote:Science has yet to disprove the existence of god, but that doesn't mean it can't or won't happen one day.

Yes, I'm saying that's exactly what that means. There is no possible way to prove something does not exist.

Cappster wrote:I am not ruling out that some parallel universe exists, but if one does exist that doesn't mean that god is in control of it.

Never said it did.

Cappster wrote:You had a personal experience such like Moses had a personal experience.

Correct. So are you saying that Moses couldn't say that he knew God exists, even though he had no tangable proof? I doubt that you, having the same experience that Moses did, would still feel the same way.

Cappster wrote:What I am saying is that if god wants to be known, come out and give us all the same personal experience of its existence.

You always try to force your perspective onto God.

Cappster wrote:I've had Deja Vu before, but does that mean I was able to see into the future or that god was sending me a message?

No, what's your point? (Deja Vu would be seeing into the past, btw) You should intereperet your experience in your own way. I think my experience is a little more profound than Deja Vu, though.

Cappster wrote:And you stating that you know for certain god exists off of an untestable personal experience I think is a bit much.

Why? In previous discussions, you professed a belief in "spirit energies" based off personal experience. I didn't offer my experience as a way to prove to you that God exists. I offered it as an explanation of how it proved to me that God exists.
Last edited by Deadskins on Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pastor Turned Atheist

Postby SkinsJock » Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:25 pm

I don't think that because I believe in God that anyone that does not, is 'wrong' …

I also don't think that because a muslim believes in Allah that he's wrong

My way of believing and how I worship God is just that - it's not 'right', it's just the way I choose to be 'in touch'

I'm quite happy to feel better through prayer but I don't get upset about the fact that many do not

this is a freedom of choice thing for me …

I choose to believe in God

and

I also choose to be a part of a church community in my own way - not in a way that is prescribed for me
We are lucky to have Cousins - Griffin will become the better QB as he learns to use the pocket & read defenses

Until then, I hope that Cousins takes full advantage of this opportunity

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Re: Pastor Turned Atheist

Postby Cappster » Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:05 pm

I've recorded voice anomalies from what I expect to be some sort of "spirit energy" otherwise known as something I cannot yet fully explain. I can share the audio recording if you like. The bottom line with this god creature is that it is very mysterious and doesn't need to use smoke and mirrors to reveal its existence to a select few. I am a father to my son and he knows that, without a doubt, I am real. He can see me, touch me, hear my voice, have a conversation with me, etc... Why is it so hard for this god to do the same thing if it truly exists? And I don't care if people believe in a god. I do; however, find it troubling when people invoke the name of god and of doing god's will to push forth their agenda i.e. denying homosexuals a right to marry, trying to ban birth control, forcing religion (only one religion though) into schools, teaching that the Earth is only 6,000 years old, flying planes into buildings, etc... If someone wants to be spiritually in touch with some god then go for it. Trying to conclusively tell me that god exists with zero doubt in their minds and then trying to force the beliefs of what that person feels god has told them to do is what I have the biggest problem with.

On a side note, just looking at the planet that a supposed god created us on that was made just for us...it is a rather hostile environment for life.
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