NOW it's time to start Cousins

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Re: NOW it's time to start Cousins

Postby SkinsJock » Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:46 am

riggofan wrote:
grampi wrote:
riggofan wrote:Grampi, I understand where you're coming from, but I don't agree. We drafted this guy to be our franchise QB. He needs to play out the season and use these games to get better.
I will say though that watching him getting beat up last night, I wished Shanahan would have pulled him out. It was pretty clear we weren't coming back from 24-6. No reason to keep him in for the fourth quarter just to get pummelled.
When we look back, I don't think it will have been a mistake to let RGIII finish out the season. I think people will say the mistake was to have rushed him back to start the season. Plenty of blame on that decision to go around.

That's just it. I don't see him getting any better playing behind this joke of an offensive line...he's just going to continue taking beatings, and to me, it's just not worth the risk of re-injury to his knee, which would probably end his career...bench him, not for poor play, but to allow his knee to heel fully, and to see what happens with Cousins at the helm...with the season over, there's absolutely no reason not to do this...

… I'm not really sure though why people want to see a less mobile QB playing behind that line though. I guess if Shanahan thinks Cousins could really come in and do a better job it would be worth a shot. But if its more likely that Cousins comes in, looks average behind that line and just gets hurt, what is the benefit of that?
… It definitely seemed like Shanahan was not happy with RGIII a few times last night. Taking that unnecessary timeout at the end of the first half for example.

I agree with riggofan - We will soon see … Mike will play the QB that he feels gives him the best shot at beating the Giants

Robert is going through a difficult season but I disagree that it's because his knee is not "fully healed" - there's no such thing as "fully healed" - the knee was determined to be 'ready to play on' - THAT is all that matters - IMO, changing from the read option, having an O line that was not exactly suited to pass blocking, NOT having an off season, having a defense that caused the team to be playing catch up and get away from running the ball …. PLUS some other factors … ALL contributed to this mess

IMO - Mike will continue to practice and play to win the next game and he will use the players that best help get that done
The Redskins need to change to improve - we need a better GM and we need to do a better job of who we bring in to coach and play here - players and coaches need to be held accountable when they do not do their jobs well

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Re: NOW it's time to start Cousins

Postby Deadskins » Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:20 am

I just want us to win our division games to play spoiler to the Cowturds and vaGiants.
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Re: NOW it's time to start Cousins

Postby riggofan » Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:29 am

StorminMormon86 wrote:Another huge reason that I feel it should have happened in the previous two weeks was that it would have served as a huge wake up call to Griffin.


I don't know, man. I don't personally think the trouble with RGIII is that he's oblivious to what's going on around him or that he's not working hard enough. He's getting physically punished on the field and completely abused by the media off the field right now. Does anyone really believe he needs a "wake up call"?

The only thing benching RGIII is likely to do is completely destroy whatever relationship he has left with his coach and potentially sour him on this franchise. How would you feel if you were the QB who came in here and literally sacrificed your body to help this team win last year - only to be thrown under the bus and scapegoated the next year?

Stick with RGIII and fix the problems around him.
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Re: NOW it's time to start Cousins

Postby riggofan » Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:29 am

Deadskins wrote:I just want us to win our division games to play spoiler to the Cowturds and vaGiants.


YES!
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Re: NOW it's time to start Cousins

Postby SkinsJock » Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:30 am

riggofan wrote:
StorminMormon86 wrote:Another huge reason that I feel it should have happened in the previous two weeks was that it would have served as a huge wake up call to Griffin.

I don't personally think the trouble with RGIII is that he's oblivious to what's going on around him or that he's not working hard enough.
He's getting physically punished on the field and completely abused by the media off the field right now. Does anyone really believe he needs a "wake up call"?

The only thing benching RGIII is likely to do is completely destroy whatever relationship he has left with his coach and potentially sour him on this franchise.
How would you feel if you were the QB who came in here and literally sacrificed your body to help this team win last year - only to be thrown under the bus and scapegoated the next year?

Stick with RGIII and fix the problems around him.


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Re: NOW it's time to start Cousins

Postby grampi » Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:12 pm

riggofan wrote:The only thing benching RGIII is likely to do is completely destroy whatever relationship he has left with his coach and potentially sour him on this franchise.


Not if Shanny explained to him that he's not benching him because of his play....

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Re: NOW it's time to start Cousins

Postby StorminMormon86 » Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:25 pm

riggofan wrote:How would you feel if you were the QB who came in here and literally sacrificed your body to help this team win last year - only to be thrown under the bus and scapegoated the next year?

How would you feel as the head coach who's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't? If Griffin gets injured in one of the last 5 games, I'll be surprised if there aren't hits taken out on Shanahan. If he pulls him, there'd be a similar reaction. And I don't see how sitting him out would destroy the relationship they have together. If Griffin is a true leader, Shanahan could go to him and say he's resting him for the rest of the year for health reasons, and there wouldn't be a problem at all. I'm all for fixing the problems around Griffin, but he also is one of them this year.

And Griffin wasn't the only one sacrificing his body for the team last year.

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Re: NOW it's time to start Cousins

Postby riggofan » Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:17 pm

grampi wrote:
riggofan wrote:The only thing benching RGIII is likely to do is completely destroy whatever relationship he has left with his coach and potentially sour him on this franchise.


Not if Shanny explained to him that he's not benching him because of his play....


If he's not benching him for his play, then why?
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Re: NOW it's time to start Cousins

Postby iScrub » Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:21 pm

RG3 hasn't regressed. If anything, his troubles highlights the so-called "coaching staff's" ability to coach. Sorry, but you can't call 75 quick hit lateral throws to wide receivers and expect a defense not to figure it out and make you pay. Is there any team in the league that has less of a vertical passing game than the Redskins? What team do you know boasts one of the best running games in the league with one of the most consistent running backs in the league, while seemingly OUTRIGHT REFUSING TO ESTABLISH A VERTICAL PASSING GAME????

Redskins fans are so fixated on RG3's woes that many don't stop to realize that the catalyst behind this season's disaster is the lack of a CAPABLE OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR.

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Re: NOW it's time to start Cousins

Postby riggofan » Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:31 pm

StorminMormon86 wrote:
riggofan wrote:How would you feel if you were the QB who came in here and literally sacrificed your body to help this team win last year - only to be thrown under the bus and scapegoated the next year?

How would you feel as the head coach who's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't? If Griffin gets injured in one of the last 5 games, I'll be surprised if there aren't hits taken out on Shanahan. If he pulls him, there'd be a similar reaction.


That's a ridiculous comparison. For one thing, nobody around here is going to be that crazy if Shanahan does decide to bench RGIII. The only thing fans around here know that they like is CHANGE. They'll cheer if he benches RGIII, and they'll cheer again if he has to bench Cousins later to bring back RGIII. And if you don't believe that, you weren't around here for Rex-Becks-Rex.

For another, the coach is paid millions of dollars to make decisions. That's what his job is. I don't really feel any compassion that the guy who is paid to make tough decisions has to weigh the benefits against the potential hazards and make some choices.

StorminMormon86 wrote:And Griffin wasn't the only one sacrificing his body for the team last year.


Give me a break. Let's not act like we're all idiots here. I appreciate that every player on the team worked hard and put his body at risk every game. But we all know what Robert did for this team last year. Think about that scramble v. the Ravens last year, why he did it and what it cost him.

Anyway, I wasn't saying that you have to feel bad for RGIII. I'm just asking you to think about how you would respond to being benched at this point and what it would realistically mean for his future with the Redskins.
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Re: NOW it's time to start Cousins

Postby riggofan » Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:33 pm

iScrub wrote:Redskins fans are so fixated on RG3's woes that many don't stop to realize that the catalyst behind this season's disaster is the lack of a CAPABLE OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR.


Yeah, blame Kyle! He apparently forgot how to call plays since last year. :roll:

Can I suggest people take a look at Mike Wise's column today? Its a pretty sobering dose of reality. Quit looking for the simple answers, because they don't exist.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/re ... rc=nl_most

Josh Wilson is not a starting cornerback in the NFL. He may not be a starting cornerback in the CFL. Tyler Polumbus is not a starting offensive lineman in the NFL. Chris Chester and Polumbus were not just outmuscled and outquicked; the right side of Washington’s line was physically emasculated Monday night. Trent Williams is the best Robert Griffin III has at the moment, but even he has looked as if he were sleepwalking the past two weeks.

A highly respected NFL mind recently told me, on condition of anonymity, that Washington probably has four genuine starters on defense — Brian Orakpo , Ryan Kerrigan, DeAngelo Hall and Barry Cofield .

After a solid 2012 campaign, Stephen Bowen has been a disappointment. Jarvis Jenkins shows signs of coming around, but it’s unclear whether any long-term investment is worth it. That Reed Doughty and Kedric Golston have managed to not just stick around this long after being taken in the sixth round of the 2006 draft but to actually start and carve out veteran niches for themselves is not merely a statement about their own resolve and heart; it’s an indictment of the players they have beat out to get those jobs and an indictment of the people that brought their potential replacements in.

Unfortunately, Jim Haslett is going to be scapegoated this season, whether Shanahan stays or not. Here’s just one reason why he shouldn’t be: His starting secondary at the moment (Doughty, Hall, Wilson and Brandon Meriweather ) makes a combined $5 million this season, just as much as one particular starting offensive lineman.

No creative thought or money went in to addressing the holes of this defense since Haslett was hired. It’s led to a predictable result: So many substandard players have led to so few wins.
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Re: NOW it's time to start Cousins

Postby VRIEL1 » Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:25 pm

I guess I'll add my 2 cents....

#1- RG3 is not 100% healthy. If he was he would not be wearing the knee brace. The brace slows him down and hinders his mobility but he needs it for support.
#2- Not all the problems are RG3's but he is having issue's this year like, timing is off- he's over throwing WR's and throwing to them late and the ball is behind them.
#3- He's not making good decisions with the ball. Throwing off his back foot. The INT's are obviously bad decisions. Rumors of not reading the defenses well and changing to wrong plays.
#4- Rumors of RG3 failing to see the open WR down field on just about every play.

Honestly I think the other issue's are the OL not cut blocking as much, RG3 probably being requested to no run as much and stay in the pocket for the protection he does not have. Only having two decent threats at catching passes in Garcon and Reed. The fact the opponents stack the line and decide to stop the run and challenge RG3 to throw.

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Re: NOW it's time to start Cousins

Postby SkinsJock » Wed Nov 27, 2013 5:04 pm

VRIEL1 wrote:I guess I'll add my 2 cents....

#1- RG3 is not 100% healthy. If he was he would not be wearing the knee brace. The brace slows him down and hinders his mobility but he needs it for support.
#2- Not all the problems are RG3's but he is having issue's this year like, timing is off- he's over throwing WR's and throwing to them late and the ball is behind them.
#3- He's not making good decisions with the ball. Throwing off his back foot. The INT's are obviously bad decisions. Rumors of not reading the defenses well and changing to wrong plays.
#4- Rumors of RG3 failing to see the open WR down field on just about every play.

Honestly I think the other issue's are the OL not cut blocking as much, RG3 probably being requested to no run as much and stay in the pocket for the protection he does not have. Only having two decent threats at catching passes in Garcon and Reed. The fact the opponents stack the line and decide to stop the run and challenge RG3 to throw.


The knee is not a 100% healthy (it might never be 100%) but he's still a VERY fast runner - he's not just fast, he's VERY fast

The brace may 'slow' him down but he's still able to run and cut VERY effectively - so it does affect his mobility but NOT noticeably

however

You're right - Robert's not making good decisions at all - this is all part of the learning curve

the fact is that Robert is not having a great season but he is getting better as an NFL QB each week and the only way to get better as an NFL QB ACCORDING TO BRADY and PEYTON and BILL COWHER is to get as much playing time as possible

END OF STORY for all those that think he should rest his knee and not play him

this is how the good QBs become great QBs - by learning from their mistakes they make WHILE PLAYING
The Redskins need to change to improve - we need a better GM and we need to do a better job of who we bring in to coach and play here - players and coaches need to be held accountable when they do not do their jobs well

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Re: NOW it's time to start Cousins

Postby RayNAustin » Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:25 pm

riggofan wrote:
iScrub wrote:Redskins fans are so fixated on RG3's woes that many don't stop to realize that the catalyst behind this season's disaster is the lack of a CAPABLE OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR.


Yeah, blame Kyle! He apparently forgot how to call plays since last year. :roll:

Can I suggest people take a look at Mike Wise's column today? Its a pretty sobering dose of reality. Quit looking for the simple answers, because they don't exist.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/re ... rc=nl_most

Josh Wilson is not a starting cornerback in the NFL. He may not be a starting cornerback in the CFL. Tyler Polumbus is not a starting offensive lineman in the NFL. Chris Chester and Polumbus were not just outmuscled and outquicked; the right side of Washington’s line was physically emasculated Monday night. Trent Williams is the best Robert Griffin III has at the moment, but even he has looked as if he were sleepwalking the past two weeks.

A highly respected NFL mind recently told me, on condition of anonymity, that Washington probably has four genuine starters on defense — Brian Orakpo , Ryan Kerrigan, DeAngelo Hall and Barry Cofield .

After a solid 2012 campaign, Stephen Bowen has been a disappointment. Jarvis Jenkins shows signs of coming around, but it’s unclear whether any long-term investment is worth it. That Reed Doughty and Kedric Golston have managed to not just stick around this long after being taken in the sixth round of the 2006 draft but to actually start and carve out veteran niches for themselves is not merely a statement about their own resolve and heart; it’s an indictment of the players they have beat out to get those jobs and an indictment of the people that brought their potential replacements in.

Unfortunately, Jim Haslett is going to be scapegoated thppis season, whether Shanahan stays or not. Here’s just one reason why he shouldn’t be: His starting secondary at the moment (Doughty, Hall, Wilson and Brandon Meriweather ) makes a combined $5 million this season, just as much as one particular starting offensive lineman.

No creative thought or money went in to addressing the holes of this defense since Haslett was hired. It’s led to a predictable result: So many substandard players have led to so few wins.


I agree with that assessment in general, and Ihave been consistent in my defense of Haz.

We're seeing little disruption from the DE's, Wilson seems to be more like a drum than a CB, the way he's being beat, and Rambo is just clueless. What does this dude do on the field besides take bad angles, show up late, and whiff ?

The secondary is pathetic. With the exception of Hall (who for some strange reason always has his own "cut Hall" thread here).

In spite of the substandard talent, you can hardly blame the defense for the 9er loss. I mean, zero offense ... you'd expect DeMatha high to be able to pick up more than 20 yards in an entire half!!! The defense was keeping them in the game, got a turnover, and what happened? 4 and out, running on 4th and 2, and not handing it to Morris?

Truthfully, while I agree there is a talent issue, that doesn't exonerate the cosvhing staff in any way for failing to coach up the oline on technique, and devising plays that help theis leaky boat along. And the bubble screens .... one, then another, and another? Why not put a message on the scoreboard ... we got nothing else!

So the league insider says they're a no talent mess, and mike claims credit for a major improvement over what was here when he arrived? 3-8 doesn't make for a strong case.

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Re: NOW it's time to start Cousins

Postby RayNAustin » Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:27 pm

riggofan wrote:
iScrub wrote:Redskins fans are so fixated on RG3's woes that many don't stop to realize that the catalyst behind this season's disaster is the lack of a CAPABLE OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR.


Yeah, blame Kyle! He apparently forgot how to call plays since last year. :roll:

Can I suggest people take a look at Mike Wise's column today? Its a pretty sobering dose of reality. Quit looking for the simple answers, because they don't exist.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/re ... rc=nl_most

Josh Wilson is not a starting cornerback in the NFL. He may not be a starting cornerback in the CFL. Tyler Polumbus is not a starting offensive lineman in the NFL. Chris Chester and Polumbus were not just outmuscled and outquicked; the right side of Washington’s line was physically emasculated Monday night. Trent Williams is the best Robert Griffin III has at the moment, but even he has looked as if he were sleepwalking the past two weeks.

A highly respected NFL mind recently told me, on condition of anonymity, that Washington probably has four genuine starters on defense — Brian Orakpo , Ryan Kerrigan, DeAngelo Hall and Barry Cofield .

After a solid 2012 campaign, Stephen Bowen has been a disappointment. Jarvis Jenkins shows signs of coming around, but it’s unclear whether any long-term investment is worth it. That Reed Doughty and Kedric Golston have managed to not just stick around this long after being taken in the sixth round of the 2006 draft but to actually start and carve out veteran niches for themselves is not merely a statement about their own resolve and heart; it’s an indictment of the players they have beat out to get those jobs and an indictment of the people that brought their potential replacements in.

Unfortunately, Jim Haslett is going to be scapegoated thppis season, whether Shanahan stays or not. Here’s just one reason why he shouldn’t be: His starting secondary at the moment (Doughty, Hall, Wilson and Brandon Meriweather ) makes a combined $5 million this season, just as much as one particular starting offensive lineman.

No creative thought or money went in to addressing the holes of this defense since Haslett was hired. It’s led to a predictable result: So many substandard players have led to so few wins.


I agree with that assessment in general, and Ihave been consistent in my defense of Haz.

We're seeing little disruption from the DE's, Wilson seems to be more like a drum than a CB, the way he's being beat, and Rambo is just clueless. What does this dude do on the field besides take bad angles, show up late, and whiff ?

The secondary is pathetic. With the exception of Hall (who for some strange reason always has his own "cut Hall" thread here).

In spite of the substandard talent, you can hardly blame the defense for the 9er loss. I mean, zero offense ... you'd expect DeMatha high to be able to pick up more than 20 yards in an entire half!!! The defense was keeping them in the game, got a turnover, and what happened? 4 and out, running on 4th and 2, and not handing it to Morris?

Truthfully, while I agree there is a talent issue, that doesn't exonerate the cosvhing staff in any way for failing to coach up the oline on technique, and devising plays that help theis leaky boat along. And the bubble screens .... one, then another, and another? Why not put a message on the scoreboard ... we got nothing else!

So the league insider says they're a no talent mess, and mike claims credit for a major improvement over what was here when he arrived? 3-8 doesn't make for a strong case.

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