How do you fix this?

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Re: How do you fix this?

Postby Irn-Bru » Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:47 am

StorminMormon86 wrote:I am legitimately curious, how many more losing seasons will it take under the Shanahan regime for you to admit that they have done little to no good for this team?


What's your magic number?
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Re: How do you fix this?

Postby Deadskins » Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:07 am

SkinsJock wrote:
Deadskins wrote: … We are #1 in rushing for the second straight year.


OK - so this mean's what exactly?

It means that this statement:

SkinsJock wrote:the O line was not close to being ready for the 'new' style of offense - this is a ZBS O line .. way too light and lacking in ability

is not true when it comes to run blocking.
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Re: How do you fix this?

Postby SkinsJock » Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:42 pm

Deadskins wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:
Deadskins wrote: … We are #1 in rushing for the second straight year.
OK - so this mean's what exactly?

It means that this statement:
SkinsJock wrote:the O line was not close to being ready for the 'new' style of offense - this is a ZBS O line .. way too light and lacking in ability
is not true when it comes to run blocking.


so - get off the fence - what do you think about this offensive line?

IMO - the offensive line needs upgrading - when you have the #1 rushing offense in the NFL and you cannot control the line of scrimmage, there is something wrong

the stats are misleading or very revealing, depending on how you 'interpret' them :?
RG3 is now learning how to play QB in the NFL - Mike & Kyle did not help with the transition

Jay & Sean are going to make it happen ... "the things we’re doing are things he’s comfortable with & complement his strengths"

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Re: How do you fix this?

Postby Deadskins » Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:57 pm

I cetainly think we need some upgrades, on the o-line, but I also don't think folks give them credit for their run blocking. If we could pick up a blitz every now and again, that would help tremendously.
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Re: How do you fix this?

Postby riggofan » Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:31 pm

Irn-Bru wrote:
StorminMormon86 wrote:I am legitimately curious, how many more losing seasons will it take under the Shanahan regime for you to admit that they have done little to no good for this team?


What's your magic number?


There is no number. Snyder could fire the Shanahans today, and I would argue that they have already done plenty of good for the franchise.

1) Got Vinny Cerrato the hell out of here. Pushed Snyder out of football ops.
2) Cleaned up our terrible salary cap practices. Take a look at the amount of dead money on our books now compared to other teams. We only have something like $100K of dead money on the books. Compare that to the Cowboys who have $11M.
3) Four years of quality draft picks. Compare his picks with Cerrato.
4) Brought in Pierre Garcon.
5) Finally found a REAL KICKER. Anybody want to take a look at our history of kickers the past 20 years. Its the only thing worse than our history of QBs the past two decades.
6) Unexpectedly took us to a playoff game last year with a rookie QB.
7) This one is debatable but IMO drafted the player who should be our franchise QB for the next 5-7 years at least.

I've said this many times before, but if this is what we got from Shanahan the past four years, I am satisfied. Finally getting rid of Vinny was the best thing to happen to this franchise in a decade. Even St. Joe didn't do that for us.

If Shanahan gets another year to see what he can do with this team, I'm ok with it. If not, I think he's fixed a lot of issues and put down a foundation that the next coaching staff has something legit to work with.

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Re: How do you fix this?

Postby SkinsJock » Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:03 pm

Deadskins wrote:I cetainly think we need some upgrades, on the o-line, but I also don't think folks give them credit for their run blocking. If we could pick up a blitz every now and again, that would help tremendously.


I have to say that in looking for information to 'put down' the o-line I found a number of stats that would indicate that the offense has not been 'bad' this season OVERALL and the offensive line in particular has not let the offense down - there are a number of things that have NOT gone our way and caused this team to under perform

there is plenty of blame that can be directed at almost everyone on this roster - players and coaches have not done their jobs for the most part as well as they can

add this to the 'suggestion box'!! http://redskins.espn980.com/bloggers/ch ... ame-reside?

and this is interesting …
I don't agree with a lot of things Mike Shanahan says or does, but I am still of the belief that you have much less risk if you stay the course, as opposed to blowing up the foundation at Redskins Park.

I believe you point the finger elsewhere. Not just in one spot. Sorry kids, but Jon Gruden or some hot shot coordinator might have temporary success, but long term success is really hard to achieve and Shanahan's experience and philosophy still gives this team their best chance to succeed.

Will there be a year number five? It is becoming harder and harder to justify it for many reasons. I would say my current position is that Bruce Allen and Dan Snyder pull the plug, BUT if I was making the decision, I would give Shanahan one final year (as he was promised) to fix the mess.
RG3 is now learning how to play QB in the NFL - Mike & Kyle did not help with the transition

Jay & Sean are going to make it happen ... "the things we’re doing are things he’s comfortable with & complement his strengths"

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Re: How do you fix this?

Postby SkinsJock » Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:11 pm

riggofan wrote: … If Shanahan gets another year to see what he can do with this team, I'm ok with it.
If not, I think he's fixed a lot of issues and put down a foundation that the next coaching staff has something legit to work with.


I'll go with that :D
RG3 is now learning how to play QB in the NFL - Mike & Kyle did not help with the transition

Jay & Sean are going to make it happen ... "the things we’re doing are things he’s comfortable with & complement his strengths"

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Re: How do you fix this?

Postby StorminMormon86 » Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:39 pm

Irn-Bru wrote:
StorminMormon86 wrote:I am legitimately curious, how many more losing seasons will it take under the Shanahan regime for you to admit that they have done little to no good for this team?


What's your magic number?

I wouldn't lose any sleep if he was fired within 5 minutes from me posting this, honestly.

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Re: How do you fix this?

Postby Irn-Bru » Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:20 pm

StorminMormon86 wrote:
Irn-Bru wrote:
StorminMormon86 wrote:I am legitimately curious, how many more losing seasons will it take under the Shanahan regime for you to admit that they have done little to no good for this team?


What's your magic number?

I wouldn't lose any sleep if he was fired within 5 minutes from me posting this, honestly.


So your magic number is one? Or, what, three seasons within four?
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"Dream team." - Vince Young, on what would become the 8-8 2011 Eagles

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Re: How do you fix this?

Postby Hooligan » Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:23 pm

I'll make a prediction now: the next HC of this franchise will credit Shanahan for the foundation he and Allen set in place.
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Re: How do you fix this?

Postby Irn-Bru » Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:24 pm

riggofan wrote:There is no number. Snyder could fire the Shanahans today, and I would argue that they have already done plenty of good for the franchise.

Me too. I also hope they don't get fired today.

1) Got Vinny Cerrato the hell out of here. Pushed Snyder out of football ops.
2) Cleaned up our terrible salary cap practices. Take a look at the amount of dead money on our books now compared to other teams. We only have something like $100K of dead money on the books. Compare that to the Cowboys who have $11M.
3) Four years of quality draft picks. Compare his picks with Cerrato.
4) Brought in Pierre Garcon.
6) Unexpectedly took us to a playoff game last year with a rookie QB.
7) This one is debatable but IMO drafted the player who should be our franchise QB for the next 5-7 years at least.

Agreed on all these points.

5) Finally found a REAL KICKER. Anybody want to take a look at our history of kickers the past 20 years. Its the only thing worse than our history of QBs the past two decades.

But I part ways with you here. I really wish Kai Forbath was a keeper, because we will never get another kicker with as cool a nickname. But . . . he just doesn't have the leg to be a long-term solution. And I suspect he really is maxing out his production on kickoffs with us, what with the undersized shoe and all that. We need someone who can boot the ball out of the endzone half the time and force touchbacks another 25% of the time. Forbath rarely gets it into the endzone. Despite his nice run on FGs last year, I also don't see him as a clutch, game-winning kicker either.


I've said this many times before, but if this is what we got from Shanahan the past four years, I am satisfied. Finally getting rid of Vinny was the best thing to happen to this franchise in a decade. Even St. Joe didn't do that for us.

If Shanahan gets another year to see what he can do with this team, I'm ok with it. If not, I think he's fixed a lot of issues and put down a foundation that the next coaching staff has something legit to work with.

Agreed.
"Last year I thought we'd win it all. This year I know we will." - Rex Ryan, on what would become the 8-8 2011 Jets

"Dream team." - Vince Young, on what would become the 8-8 2011 Eagles

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Re: How do you fix this?

Postby riggofan » Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:09 pm

Irn-Bru wrote:But I part ways with you here. I really wish Kai Forbath was a keeper, because we will never get another kicker with as cool a nickname. But . . . he just doesn't have the leg to be a long-term solution. And I suspect he really is maxing out his production on kickoffs with us, what with the undersized shoe and all that. We need someone who can boot the ball out of the endzone half the time and force touchbacks another 25% of the time. Forbath rarely gets it into the endzone. Despite his nice run on FGs last year, I also don't see him as a clutch, game-winning kicker either.


lol. I'll buy that argument and definitely agree the kickoffs have been disappointing. That position has just been SUCH a killer for so long. 19 kickers since 1994. The NFL average in that time is 8. And we haven't just had a lot of turnover, we've had bad kicker after bad kicker. I can't help but feel like Kai has been an improvement.

The Redskins kickers, listed in order of field-goal attempts since 1994: Suisham, Gano, Conway, Hall, Blanton, Murray, Lohmiller, Blanchard, Novak, Tuthill, Cundiff, Kimrin, Cortez, Husted, Chandler, Heppner, Akers, Bentley.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc- ... g-changes/

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Re: How do you fix this?

Postby riggofan » Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:10 pm

Hooligan wrote:I'll make a prediction now: the next HC of this franchise will credit Shanahan for the foundation he and Allen set in place.


Yep. Bookmark this.

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Re: How do you fix this?

Postby cowboykillerzRGiii » Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:53 pm

riggofan wrote:
Irn-Bru wrote:But I part ways with you here. I really wish Kai Forbath was a keeper, because we will never get another kicker with as cool a nickname. But . . . he just doesn't have the leg to be a long-term solution. And I suspect he really is maxing out his production on kickoffs with us, what with the undersized shoe and all that. We need someone who can boot the ball out of the endzone half the time and force touchbacks another 25% of the time. Forbath rarely gets it into the endzone. Despite his nice run on FGs last year, I also don't see him as a clutch, game-winning kicker either.


lol. I'll buy that argument and definitely agree the kickoffs have been disappointing. That position has just been SUCH a killer for so long. 19 kickers since 1994. The NFL average in that time is 8. And we haven't just had a lot of turnover, we've had bad kicker after bad kicker. I can't help but feel like Kai has been an improvement.

The Redskins kickers, listed in order of field-goal attempts since 1994: Suisham, Gano, Conway, Hall, Blanton, Murray, Lohmiller, Blanchard, Novak, Tuthill, Cundiff, Kimrin, Cortez, Husted, Chandler, Heppner, Akers, Bentley.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc- ... g-changes/


Just to stir the pot.. how many of them were bad kickers and how many had bad special teams? Gano? most blocked ever (jus sayin, don't look it up) has the skins record and has had a stellar year.... on a different team. Cundwhiff is still employed, as is suisham. Our fg line is just as pourus as our o line... Akers? What a a kicker he turned out to be! For someone else of course... Smh
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Re: How do you fix this?

Postby SkinsJock » Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:23 pm

Forbath's a pretty good FG kicker but he does not have a 'leg' like Gano - that boy is going to be kicking in the NFL for a while

we're not going to see Forbath here for much longer unless he figures out how to get the ball deep on kick offs

Kicking is a concern but it's not a big deal - we need to play as well as we are capable

I will say this - I am starting to think that there may be something going on between Kyle and Robert …

I hope this is not the case but if it is it could be a major problem …
RG3 is now learning how to play QB in the NFL - Mike & Kyle did not help with the transition

Jay & Sean are going to make it happen ... "the things we’re doing are things he’s comfortable with & complement his strengths"

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