Kyle needs to go.

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Re: Kyle needs to go.

Postby Deadskins » Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:03 pm

While I agree about Haslett needing to go long before Kyle, I don't agree with a couple of your points. I don't think RGIII was gimpy or epically afraid of contact at the start of the year. He was unconfident, and I think the coaches might have been epically afraid of contact for him, though. Also, I think you are giving the offense credit for a couple of defensive scores, and counting scores against the defense that were the direct result of offensive screw-ups. My 2 cents
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Re: Kyle needs to go.

Postby markshark84 » Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:16 pm

Deadskins wrote:While I agree about Haslett needing to go long before Kyle, I don't agree with a couple of your points. I don't think RGIII was gimpy or epically afraid of contact at the start of the year. He was unconfident, and I think the coaches might have been epically afraid of contact for him, though. Also, I think you are giving the offense credit for a couple of defensive scores, and counting scores against the defense that were the direct result of offensive screw-ups. My 2 cents


My stats deducted points scored by the defense. If you include those, our O would have been averaging over 30 a game. As far as vice versa, even if our offense were giving up a TD a game (which it isn't), an average of 28 points against is still unacceptable. I don't think the D has much of an excuse for anything.

And we'll have to agree to disagree on RGIII. To me, he looked totally immoble and scared.
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Re: Kyle needs to go.

Postby DarthMonk » Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:12 pm

markshark84 wrote:Are people serious?

Do you guys really think KS is the problem?

If a coordinator needs to go it's Haslett.

For the first 4 games of the year KS was calling plays with a gimpy, unconfident QB who was epically afraid of contact.

This team has been averaging 28 ppg over the past 4 weeks --- and this is still with a limited playbook due to the RGIII injury.

Meanwhile our D is averaging 35 points against per game since the break. That is our problem.

IMHO, the DEF vs. OFF line is 23. If our D holds the opponent to 23, they have done their job. If the offense scores more than 23, they have done theirs. So, IMHO our offense is now holding their end of bargin. Our D is still almost 2 touchdowns short of theirs.

KS has been successful in Houston and last year in DC. He's nowhere near the problem. It tough to implement any sort of offense if your QB is putting up a <10 QBR every game. His players were failing him in the beginning of the year. KS was unable to use the full playbook. And even with a limited playbook we are putting up enough points to win.

If KS and Haslett were fired this year, KS would get a job in about 2 days. Haslett would likely have to retire or become a positions coach. I think that is most telling.


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Re: Kyle needs to go.

Postby DarthMonk » Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:29 am

WP 11/17

Instituting a dramatic change

During the 2012 offseason, Mike and Kyle Shanahan studied footage of the read option, which other NFL teams had run effectively. Mike Shanahan reflected on his days inside the wishbone machine at Oklahoma.

“Everything’s a learning experience,” he said.

Washington had drafted Griffin, an electric runner and a promising college passer, with the No. 2 overall pick. Mike Shanahan had won two Super Bowls in Denver using a zone-blocking scheme that relied on power running and an accurate quarterback. It had worked, but now it was part of the past.

“I don’t think you really have much of a choice,” the Washington coach said. “Whatever players that you have, you have to adapt a system to those players.”

Whether it was adjustment or a survival instinct — the Redskins had gone 11-21 in Shanahan’s first two seasons — Washington instituted a dramatic change, leaving only blocking concepts and terminology and emphasizing a zone-read scheme that frequently ran the option.

Kyle Shanahan said he has tailored offenses to his players in each of his six seasons as a coordinator, dating to his time with the Houston Texans. None were as significant as adapting to Griffin’s skills, and none had higher stakes.

Whether it was the right move or not, Kyle Shanahan said stubbornly sticking to a system — and forcing players to fit into it — is “pretty stupid.”

“Coaches aren’t just going to keep running plays that their players aren’t good at unless they want to get fired and suck at everything they do,” he said. “Eventually you’ve got to adjust.”

Washington has made less noticeable tweaks this season, some to accommodate Griffin’s healing right knee and opposing defenses’ own changes and others to jump-start a sluggish and mistake-prone offense. Its coaches haven’t yet found the right adjustment to replicate last year’s success.

As a result, Kyle Shanahan said, the experimentation at Redskins Park is ongoing.

“You’d better adjust pretty quick,” he said, “and quit beating your head against the wall trying to run something that’s not working.”
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Re: Kyle needs to go.

Postby SkinsJock » Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:07 pm

I could not care how great an OC or DC might be somewhere else or if he ever got a job in the NFL again

THAT MEANS SQUAT

all that matters is if they are good while they are working for the Redskins …

Haslett and Kyle are good coordinators - I could care less what happens to them IF they are not here next season

all that matters is that we need to have the OC and DC that ARE here get more out of the offense and defense than we are seeing this season

The defense seems to me to be more of an issue than the offense but Mike would know more about that than I do

the first guy to be out of here is the ST coordinator - Burns
Getting our QB back will help a lot but we still have a lot of issues to address

Players and coaches need to believe that they can be successful - they are not playing with that attitude - big changes are coming

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Re: Kyle needs to go.

Postby markshark84 » Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:50 am

SkinsJock wrote:I could not care how great an OC or DC might be somewhere else or if he ever got a job in the NFL again

THAT MEANS SQUAT

all that matters is if they are good while they are working for the Redskins …

Haslett and Kyle are good coordinators - I could care less what happens to them IF they are not here next season

all that matters is that we need to have the OC and DC that ARE here get more out of the offense and defense than we are seeing this season

The defense seems to me to be more of an issue than the offense but Mike would know more about that than I do

the first guy to be out of here is the ST coordinator - Burns


I never said whether KS or Haslett will be good elsewhere; I said that KS would be hired by another HC in 2 days if fired. There is a big difference. I made the statement to show that HCs see the value KS has provided while Haslett has not.

Also, I disagree that Haslett is a "good coordinator". He is not. And DEF is absolutely our biggest concern. They have been giving up about 28 points a game since week 1 of last season.
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Re: Kyle needs to go.

Postby SkinsJock » Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:17 am

^^ that's JUST your opinion … :lol:

the ONLY opinion that matters is Mike's - Haslett is doing what Mike wants, the way Mike wants - END of story

Mike has ONLY kept Haslett here because he's a DC that does what Mike wants -
put another way, Mike would not bring in the best available DC, he brought in a DC that would run the defense the way Mike wants it run

so - Haslett is a good DC :D maybe not in your or my estimation but that does not count for diddly :wink:
Getting our QB back will help a lot but we still have a lot of issues to address

Players and coaches need to believe that they can be successful - they are not playing with that attitude - big changes are coming

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Re: Kyle needs to go.

Postby markshark84 » Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:41 pm

SkinsJock wrote:^^ that's JUST your opinion … :lol:

the ONLY opinion that matters is Mike's - Haslett is doing what Mike wants, the way Mike wants - END of story

Mike has ONLY kept Haslett here because he's a DC that does what Mike wants -
put another way, Mike would not bring in the best available DC, he brought in a DC that would run the defense the way Mike wants it run

so - Haslett is a good DC :D maybe not in your or my estimation but that does not count for diddly :wink:


Yes -- how soon KS or Haslett would acquire another job is absolutely my opinion; but I do believe it is a VERY reasonable one.

As far as Haslett doing what MS wants --- if you mean MS wants Haslett to run the 3-4; then yes, although Haslett has always run a 3-4. However, MS is not calling the defensive plays, making defensive adjustments, etc. That is all Haslett and he is doing a horrible job.

And Haslett is not a good DC based on his product. I don't think that is even disputable. I don't think most people within the NFL would honestly state Haslett is "good" based on his product in washington.
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Re: Kyle needs to go.

Postby SkinsJock » Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:32 am

:D beauty is in the eye of the beholder …

Mike is in charge here - he brought in Kyle & Jim because he felt that they would do a good job AND, most importantly, do it the way Mike wanted it done …
Mike has a lot of influence over both the running game and the defense - Haslett is not doing what he wants, he's doing what Mike wants

this franchise is basically being managed and coached by Mike Shanahan with a lot of help from Bruce, Kyle, Jim and Ken Burns

we have the #1 rushing game in the NFL and all the stats indicate a good offense - yet the O line has only looked good on occasion

our defense has moments of greatness but so many more moments of bad tackling and not being effective at all against some of the worst QBs in the NFL
Getting our QB back will help a lot but we still have a lot of issues to address

Players and coaches need to believe that they can be successful - they are not playing with that attitude - big changes are coming

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Re: Kyle needs to go.

Postby fredp45 » Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:11 pm

Somewhere along this thread someone said, we wouldn't be saying anything bad about Kyle if we were executing the plays...NO *sh$t*.

Isn't that true for every bad OC that gets fired??

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Re: Kyle needs to go.

Postby markshark84 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:23 pm

SkinsJock wrote::D beauty is in the eye of the beholder …


our defense has moments of greatness


You can say that again........

I would love to know when our D has ever had a "moment of GREATNESS" this season..........
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Re: Kyle needs to go.

Postby Deadskins » Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:36 pm

The goal line stand against the Chargers?
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Re: Kyle needs to go.

Postby SkinsJock » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:14 pm

Deadskins wrote:The goal line stand against the Chargers?


:D THANKS - like the man once said - "haters gonna hate .. "
Getting our QB back will help a lot but we still have a lot of issues to address

Players and coaches need to believe that they can be successful - they are not playing with that attitude - big changes are coming

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Re: Kyle needs to go.

Postby markshark84 » Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:35 pm

SkinsJock wrote:
Deadskins wrote:The goal line stand against the Chargers?


:D THANKS - like the man once said - "haters gonna hate .. "


You mean the drive where our defense gave up 91 yards in the final 2 minutes of the game? Honestly, first down was a solid play by our D (dispite Woodhead being injured). On second down, SD runs an odd fade route that Gates was held on. On third down Rivers throws a bad pass. Good stand by our D, but I didn't see "greatness".

That all being said, it was EASILY the best 3 collective downs our D played all year --- but I don't consider 3 consecutive downs a "moment of greatness". Maybe an entire quarter or half, but 3 downs after letting their offense march down the field 91 yards?

But like you said, it's all in the eye of the beholder. And I'm not hating. I think the vast majority of objective NFL fans would laugh at the term "moments of greatness" and our D being used together. And you did say "moments"; this was only 1 instance.


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Re: Kyle needs to go.

Postby Deadskins » Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:14 pm

markshark84 wrote:On second down, SD runs an odd fade route that Gates was held on. On third down Rivers throws a bad pass.

2nd down - Gates wasn't held. He was still within five yards of the LOS, and once the ball was in the air, Hall released him.
3rd down - Not a bad throw. He had no one open, so he threw it away.
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