The coach the team needs (who might be too old)

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Re: The coach the team needs (who might be too old)

Postby Kilmer72 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:14 pm

riggofan wrote:
skinsfan#33 wrote:He missed on talent along the Oline, He missed on linebackers, he missed on secondary, he missed on QBs pre Robert. He missed on coaches Burns, JH there is way too much to elaborate on. The list is long. I like some of the things Shanahan has done. He got us younger, he got us in cap control minus the cap gate crap. He has made a real attempt at a scouting department. He has spread himself thin with to much responsibilities. How many successful coach/GM/last word guys are there?


Saying he "missed on" talent is a pretty gross overstatement too. I'm sure there are some players that he missed on, but because of the cap penalties took a lot of the decision making out of his hands. There were a lot of potentially better players available in free agency we just couldn't afford.


I agree but some of this is pre cap. Who gets blame then? I mean I wanted so much to see Shanahan see this through next year and maybe replace ST coach maybe even JH. Instead we have someone that has running backs,QB and FO in shape and everything else is left open for discussion or debate. Then he gives up. I know some will say it is Snyders fault. I agree he deserves some blame. I also think Snyder can be directing his passion in a positive form. Step away please. If you can't hold anyone responsible for this then you have no leadership what so ever. Is it all on Snyder?

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Re: The coach the team needs (who might be too old)

Postby SCSkinsFan » Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:40 pm

riggofan wrote:
SCSkinsFan wrote:
riggofan wrote:Its funny you wrote that man, about wanting the o-line, run the ball, grind it out offense. I heard somebody on the radio recently, maybe like a Fred Smoot or someone along that lines, kind of making fun of Washington fans, because that's what we always come back to. We want that hogs/Riggins offense which doesn't really exist in the NFL anymore. Its a passing league they say.



Okay, let's agree that it is a passing league now. So then, wouldn't you agree that the team would be better off having an O Line that can at least pass block?


Oh yeah, man, I totally agree with you. Your comment just struck me as funny because I had just heard that complaint about Redskins fans (I include myself in that!).

Its great that the ZBS is so effective for running the ball, but if it has to be a disaster in pass protection I don't know how you can stick with it.


I don't think you can either. And from what I can see, the ZBS is not about the O linemen really knocking people off the ball. It's about getting out and screening people off, and then the back making the proper one cut and up decision and hitting the hole or gap created at just the right moment. I think defenses have figured that out now and they are just blowing the O linemen back up into the backfield and creating congestion, no holes or gaps, and nowhere for the back to run as evidenced by the declining number of yards Alfred has gained recently. Watch a see how many of our O line are on the ground or looking lost after being beaten one on one by the man across from them. Only Trent Williams, who at times gets beat too, is the only one that can hold his own.
Last edited by SCSkinsFan on Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The coach the team needs (who might be too old)

Postby riggofan » Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:42 pm

Kilmer72 wrote:
riggofan wrote:
skinsfan#33 wrote:He missed on talent along the Oline, He missed on linebackers, he missed on secondary, he missed on QBs pre Robert. He missed on coaches Burns, JH there is way too much to elaborate on. The list is long. I like some of the things Shanahan has done. He got us younger, he got us in cap control minus the cap gate crap. He has made a real attempt at a scouting department. He has spread himself thin with to much responsibilities. How many successful coach/GM/last word guys are there?


Saying he "missed on" talent is a pretty gross overstatement too. I'm sure there are some players that he missed on, but because of the cap penalties took a lot of the decision making out of his hands. There were a lot of potentially better players available in free agency we just couldn't afford.


I agree but some of this is pre cap. Who gets blame then?


What specifically is pre-cap though? We couldn't sign a decent right tackle because of the cap penalty. We couldn't get a decent safety because of the cap penalty. We couldn't even afford old *** Antoine Winfield at CB because of the cap penalty. We didn't have the money to re-sign our special teams CAPTAIN, Lorenzo Alexander, because of the cap penalty.

Like I said, I'm sure Shanahan missed on some players. Not sure Josh Morgan was worth the money, for example. I don't think our personnel problems though are really because Shanahan "missed" on all of these guys. That's like sending me to the grocery store with six bucks then complaining that the wine I brought back sucks. :)
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Re: The coach the team needs (who might be too old)

Postby Kilmer72 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:03 pm

Pre cap means to me = before Mara implemented the cap hit we and Dallas took. So before that. No its like sending you to the store for bread and you come back back with Wonder bread instead of Pepperidge Farm. There is a difference.

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Re: The coach the team needs (who might be too old)

Postby riggofan » Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:12 pm

Kilmer72 wrote:Pre cap means to me = before Mara implemented the cap hit we and Dallas took. So before that. No its like sending you to the store for bread and you come back back with Wonder bread instead of Pepperidge Farm. There is a difference.


Ok, Wonder Bread/Pepperidge Farm. If you send me to the store with $2, you're getting Wonder Bread even if we both know Pepperidge Farm is better.

I know what you mean by pre-cap, I just don't know what players/positions specifically you're saying are pre-cap, bad personnel decisions. There are a lot of glaring needs on the team that just couldn't get fixed, because of the cap penalty.
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Re: The coach the team needs (who might be too old)

Postby Kilmer72 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:19 pm

riggofan wrote:
Kilmer72 wrote:Pre cap means to me = before Mara implemented the cap hit we and Dallas took. So before that. No its like sending you to the store for bread and you come back back with Wonder bread instead of Pepperidge Farm. There is a difference.


Ok, Wonder Bread/Pepperidge Farm. If you send me to the store with $2, you're getting Wonder Bread even if we both know Pepperidge Farm is better.

I know what you mean by pre-cap, I just don't know what players/positions specifically you're saying are pre-cap, bad personnel decisions. There are a lot of glaring needs on the team that just couldn't get fixed, because of the cap penalty.


Everyone to the right of Trent. For starters. Maybe there is someone that came in there after the cap. Polumbus? If I have to go through all of it I will but I think you get my meaning. His first 2 years sucked as bad as his last 2 except for the winning streak to spite him. He did some good things. I wont say he never did anything. This whole Danny is playing with my girlfriend just ticks me off.

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Re: The coach the team needs (who might be too old)

Postby Deadskins » Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:56 pm

Kilmer72 wrote:He missed on talent along the Oline, He missed on linebackers, he missed on secondary, he missed on QBs pre Robert. He missed on coaches Burns, JH there is way too much to elaborate on. The list is long. I like some of the things Shanahan has done. He got us younger, he got us in cap control minus the cap gate crap. He has made a real attempt at a scouting department. He has spread himself thin with to much responsibilities. How many successful coach/GM/last word guys are there?

I think he's been somewhat hamstrung on what he can do, talent-wise, by the cap hit, but he's still brought in a number of good, young players. I'm not sure which LBs you think he missed on, DBs either (not many rookie DBs can step in and start right away on an NFL team. I'll give you coaches though. I still think he's done a better job of finding talent than he has of coaching.
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Re: The coach the team needs (who might be too old)

Postby Kilmer72 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:12 pm

Deadskins wrote:
Kilmer72 wrote:He missed on talent along the Oline, He missed on linebackers, he missed on secondary, he missed on QBs pre Robert. He missed on coaches Burns, JH there is way too much to elaborate on. The list is long. I like some of the things Shanahan has done. He got us younger, he got us in cap control minus the cap gate crap. He has made a real attempt at a scouting department. He has spread himself thin with to much responsibilities. How many successful coach/GM/last word guys are there?

I think he's been somewhat hamstrung on what he can do, talent-wise, by the cap hit, but he's still brought in a number of good, young players. I'm not sure which LBs you think he missed on, DBs either (not many rookie DBs can step in and start right away on an NFL team. I'll give you coaches though. I still think he's done a better job of finding talent than he has of coaching.



Deadskins, I know you know better. He has had 4 years to find DB. How many years or attempts are required? He missed on 34 linebackers didn't he? Our outside linebackers can't do what Jim wants them to do. They are converted yes but whos fault is it? DBs yes I agree take time but how much? For middle linebackers we have Fletcher (on his way out) then we have what we have.

Yes the cap gate has hindered us. I know this. I am really ticked off right now and yes my opinion may change in a few days. Right now I see bloody fury. I am mad like you wouldn't believe.

I hate the fact that Shanahan let the leak out or didn't deny it. Which ever way you want to look at it it sucks to get hit below the belt.

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Re: The coach the team needs (who might be too old)

Postby Deadskins » Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:23 pm

Kilmer72 wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
Kilmer72 wrote:He missed on talent along the Oline, He missed on linebackers, he missed on secondary, he missed on QBs pre Robert. He missed on coaches Burns, JH there is way too much to elaborate on. The list is long. I like some of the things Shanahan has done. He got us younger, he got us in cap control minus the cap gate crap. He has made a real attempt at a scouting department. He has spread himself thin with to much responsibilities. How many successful coach/GM/last word guys are there?

I think he's been somewhat hamstrung on what he can do, talent-wise, by the cap hit, but he's still brought in a number of good, young players. I'm not sure which LBs you think he missed on, DBs either (not many rookie DBs can step in and start right away on an NFL team. I'll give you coaches though. I still think he's done a better job of finding talent than he has of coaching.



Deadskins, I know you know better. He has had 4 years to find DB. How many years or attempts are required? He missed on 34 linebackers didn't he? Our outside linebackers can't do what Jim wants them to do. They are converted yes but whos fault is it? DBs yes I agree take time but how much? For middle linebackers we have Fletcher (on his way out) then we have what we have.

Well, Tannard Jackson and Merriweather might have been a good combo, but we'll never know. Amerson was a good pickup, though, and Rambo may have potential, but he's too young to be thrown to the wolves like he was. In the middle we have Riley, who is a real up and coming MLB, IMO. And I also disagree with you about Kerrigan and Orakpo.
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Re: The coach the team needs (who might be too old)

Postby Kilmer72 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:40 pm

Don't get me wrong I like Kerrigan and Orakpo. I just think they are great football players not outside LBs. We have a good nucleus just not the guys to make this stuff happen. This is why I blame Mike. I like the many good things he did but all it takes is one awe shucks to the atta boys to ruin everything. I wanted to support Mike even though I didn't like his style. He is supposed to be a throw back General. He is a crying quitting snake. I feel like even though Snyder is a scum bag he is is our scum bag that wont go away. That leaves us with someone that is man enough to take the journey and make it happen. Again we had coaches that could have but for circumstances and the Danny factor it hasn't. We have come close with Gibbs. That guy could touch poo and make it gold. Think about it. We need a real GM and HC. Bruce stays as President.

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Re: The coach the team needs (who might be too old)

Postby SkinsJock » Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:14 pm

Kilmer72 wrote: … We need a real GM and HC. Bruce stays as President.


a promotion? - right now we have Bruce Allen - Executive Vice President/General Manager and Mike Shanahan - Executive Vice President/Head Coach

also … little known fact is that A.J. Smith is part of the staff here as well

this MESS worries me - IMO we would be better staying the course for 1 more season with the clear picture that nothing is 'firm' after that

maybe Mike will not stay for 2014 anyway …

I am worried that we're panicking a little and making a knee jerk hire that will not benefit the players
It's taken years for the Redskins to become as bad as we are - there is no way that the team is going to be consistently competitive in the near future, the problems here are complex - unfortunately with Dan Snyder, it is what it is

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Re: The coach the team needs (who might be too old)

Postby Kilmer72 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:20 pm

SkinsJock wrote:
Kilmer72 wrote: … We need a real GM and HC. Bruce stays as President.


a promotion? - right now we have Bruce Allen - Executive Vice President/General Manager and Mike Shanahan - Executive Vice President/Head Coach

also … little known fact is that A.J. Smith is part of the staff here as well

this MESS worries me - IMO we would be better staying the course for 1 more season with the clear picture that nothing is 'firm' after that

maybe Mike will not stay for 2014 anyway …

I am worried that we're panicking a little and making a knee jerk hire that will not benefit the players


Let me put it this way. Let Bruce decide who should be GM and help guide him on his (the new GM) decision for HC. Bruce knows numbers and he is the best choice for PR duties. He knows football and I am sure he knows Redskins Park.

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Re: The coach the team needs (who might be too old)

Postby SKINS#1 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:26 pm

Kilmer72 wrote "Let me put it this way. Let Bruce decide who should be GM and help guide him on his (the new coach) decision for HC. Bruce knows numbers and he is the best choice for PR duties. He knows football and I am sure he knows Redskins Park."

This sounds like a smart decision!

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Re: The coach the team needs (who might be too old)

Postby SkinsJock » Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:44 pm

I am VERY hopeful that Mike will be gone soon and that Dan Snyder will let Bruce Allen recommend the next head coach to Dan Snyder as he knows MUCH MORE about who might possibly be a good fit with what the plan is that these guys have for this franchise …

my hope is that Mike is here for another season as that is best for the franchise
and
IMO Mike is the best guy to help RG3 take the next steps he needs to become a much better QB
It's taken years for the Redskins to become as bad as we are - there is no way that the team is going to be consistently competitive in the near future, the problems here are complex - unfortunately with Dan Snyder, it is what it is

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Re: The coach the team needs (who might be too old)

Postby Kilmer72 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:48 pm

SkinsJock wrote:I am VERY hopeful that Mike will be gone soon and that Dan Snyder will let Bruce Allen recommend the next head coach to Dan Snyder as he knows MUCH MORE about who might possibly be a good fit with what the plan is that these guys have for this franchise …

my hope is that Mike is here for another season as that is best for the franchise
and
IMO Mike is the best guy to help RG3 take the next steps he needs to become a much better QB


I agree but it is too late. Shanahan blew it up after the fire was started.

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