Cooley on RG3 and Cousins

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Re: A Reason To Watch Now...

Postby SkinsJock » Fri Dec 13, 2013 8:05 am

DFTT [-X
Griffin can become a really good QB but it's going to take time

We are lucky to have Cousins - hopefully he can continue to play well

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Re: Cooley on RG3 and Cousins

Postby OldSchool » Fri Dec 13, 2013 8:33 am

Cousins is an effective pocket passer who can also rollout and throw on the move, I don't know if he can play well enough to energize this demoralized team and win some games but I am eager to see how it goes for three games.

I don't know if Shanny made this decision to provoke a firing or because he knows he's going to get fired so he might as well do what he wants for the last three weeks but whatever the reason it makes sense. Cousins may win some games and reward the loyal fans with some end of the year fun.

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Re: Cooley on RG3 and Cousins

Postby riggofan » Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:38 am

StorminMormon86 wrote:Cooley was referencing the film he had watched against KC.


Yeah I understand that, and I agree he's been very objective in those film breakdowns all year. I'm just talking about the statement that "Cousins is further along in his development vs. RGIII". I don't understand how there could be any way to make that comparison. We haven't seen Kirk play a regular season game this year and neither has Cooley. So there is no way anyone, even Mike Shanahan, can make that statement.

StorminMormon86 wrote:And I am in 100% agreement with you. I could care less if Griffin is a bust as long as Cousins turns out to be the QB we need. I'm just glad we have two viable options right now. I will say this though, if Cousins lights it up in the last three games I would really want to see some legitimate competition for the starting job next year and not just hand the reigns right back over to Griffin.


You wouldn't be alone in that opinion. I will say this: the games coming up v. the Giants and especially the Cowboys will be very revealing. RGIII played both of those teams, and we saw what he did in them. I think you could make the case that they will be even tougher games for Cousins, just because we're out of playoff contention. Seeing how Cousins performs in those games will provide a fair comparison of these QBs.

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Re: Cooley on RG3 and Cousins

Postby SkinsJock » Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:15 am

We need to keep in mind that Kyle will not be game planning or calling plays for Kirk that he would have done if Robert were in there :twisted:

it's kind of like some fans being really pissed that we gave away the (potential) 2nd pick overall in the 2014 draft - how STUPID is that?


FACT - I want and hope that Kirk plays really, really well these next 3 games - I hope we can keep Kirk as our back up QB because he's a very good QB
no matter what we see - there's NO WAY that Kirk will be the starting QB for the Redskins instead of Robert - NONE :D

of course - given that both are healthy and available here next season :wink:
Griffin can become a really good QB but it's going to take time

We are lucky to have Cousins - hopefully he can continue to play well

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Re: Cooley on RG3 and Cousins

Postby OldSchool » Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:43 pm

SkinsJock wrote:We need to keep in mind that Kyle will not be game planning or calling plays for Kirk that he would have done if Robert were in there :twisted:

it's kind of like some fans being really pissed that we gave away the (potential) 2nd pick overall in the 2014 draft - how STUPID is that?


FACT - I want and hope that Kirk plays really, really well these next 3 games - I hope we can keep Kirk as our back up QB because he's a very good QB
no matter what we see - there's NO WAY that Kirk will be the starting QB for the Redskins instead of Robert - NONE :D

of course - given that both are healthy and available here next season :wink:


What do you mean by not going be game planning or calling plays for Kirk that he would have done if Robert were in there.

Are you suggesting that Kyle won't call red option plays with Cousins or are you invested in some conspiracy theory that Kyle has saved the good plays for Cousins?

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Re: Cooley on RG3 and Cousins

Postby SKINS#1 » Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:00 pm

With the rumor that Snyder was the one that wanted RG3 with or with out Shannys approval maybe that is why MS drafted Cousins. if
he believes Cousins is the better QB and he thinks he will be fired, now is the time to make his point and rub it in Snyder's face.

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Re: Cooley on RG3 and Cousins

Postby SkinsJock » Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:05 pm

SKINS#1 wrote:With the rumor that Snyder was the one that wanted RG3 with or with out Shannys approval maybe that is why MS drafted Cousins. if
he believes Cousins is the better QB and he thinks he will be fired, now is the time to make his point and rub it in Snyder's face.


THAT is just BS - IMHO :D
Griffin can become a really good QB but it's going to take time

We are lucky to have Cousins - hopefully he can continue to play well

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Re: Cooley on RG3 and Cousins

Postby SKINS#1 » Sat Dec 14, 2013 7:56 am

SkinsJock wrote:
SKINS#1 wrote:With the rumor that Snyder was the one that wanted RG3 with or with out Shannys approval maybe that is why MS drafted Cousins. if
he believes Cousins is the better QB and he thinks he will be fired, now is the time to make his point and rub it in Snyder's face.


THAT is just BS - IMHO :D


BS - Maybe not. According to SI article Snyder, not Shanahan was the "impetus" behind the blockbuster trade for RG3. IF true, Shanahan drafting Cousins makes more sense.

http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumo ... nbar_fn_dd

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Re: Cooley on RG3 and Cousins

Postby StorminMormon86 » Sat Dec 14, 2013 8:35 am

I just would like to see some legitimate competition for the starter next year if Cousins performs well in these next three games.

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Re: Cooley on RG3 and Cousins

Postby SkinsJock » Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:30 am

StorminMormon86 wrote:I just would like to see some legitimate competition for the starter next year if Cousins performs well in these next three games.


Both QBs will be given every opportunity and assistance to be better QBs this off season but Kirk Cousins is not going to be able to look like he's the better QB
Griffin can become a really good QB but it's going to take time

We are lucky to have Cousins - hopefully he can continue to play well

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Re: Cooley on RG3 and Cousins

Postby Kilmer72 » Sat Dec 14, 2013 2:57 pm

SkinsJock wrote:
StorminMormon86 wrote:I just would like to see some legitimate competition for the starter next year if Cousins performs well in these next three games.


Both QBs will be given every opportunity and assistance to be better QBs this off season but Kirk Cousins is not going to be able to look like he's the better QB


It is always about the other QB for some people. I can't blame them. They get excited. It was the same thing with Grossman and Beck. It was people calling for Beck and got what the wished for. As bad as things were for Grossman he was way better. Next year people will see Robert more like his old self. The minute he has a bad game though they will be calling for Cousins. The minute Cousins has a bad game then the same people wont be calling for Robert. They will dismiss his rookie season as being lucky to be as accurate as he was.

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Re: Cooley on RG3 and Cousins

Postby OldSchool » Sat Dec 14, 2013 7:18 pm

Barring an injury or a coaching change before the end of the season everyone is going to see Cousins play three games in a row and I will not be surprised if he plays well and the Skins win a couple of games. If Cousins lights it up and another team is willing to swap a 1st or 2nd round pick for him than I think they should trade Cousins if they are still convinced Griffin is an NFL starter.

I don't like Griffin's chances of improving enough in the pocket to be a quality starter. I've see so many of these option quarterbacks fail to transition to the NFL game because they can't read, process and release quick enough to be really effective. The ability to read, process and release quickly is what separates pocket passers from all the other guys with strong accurate arms. But if they think Griffin can get over that hurdle and another team is willing to swap a high pick for Cousins than they should make the trade to draft a player who can help Griffin on the line or the receiving corps because a team with as many needs as the Redskins shouldn't forgo an opportunity for a high pick to retain a backup quarterback. Conversely, they could trade Griffin is Cousins can play better.

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Re: Cooley on RG3 and Cousins

Postby SkinsJock » Sat Dec 14, 2013 8:35 pm

SkinsJock wrote:
StorminMormon86 wrote:I just would like to see some legitimate competition for the starter next year if Cousins performs well in these next three games.
Both QBs will be given every opportunity and assistance to be better QBs this off season

I really would like Kirk Cousins to play well - he's our back up QB and the real game experience will be good for him and the coaches

what some forget is that Mike (& the FO) saw that he was available and felt they could not pass on a QB they felt might be good to have

Kirk Cousins was not drafted for any ulterior motives - he was worth the pick IS ALL and he's shown that was a very good pick

now he's here and Robert has been benched - this is an opportunity for Kirk to get some good experience - this is NOT an opportunity to maybe be the starter
Griffin can become a really good QB but it's going to take time

We are lucky to have Cousins - hopefully he can continue to play well

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Re: Cooley on RG3 and Cousins

Postby Kilmer72 » Sat Dec 14, 2013 8:48 pm

RayNAustin wrote:You know, it's fine to say Robert is going to learn and get better. That should be an expexted given with any young QB. But, what CC is saying here is as disturbing as it is remarkably candid, as you cannot ignore the fact that we traded so much to get him, while Cousins is by CC'S assessment much further along, when he was a 4th round pick.

Does anyone read CC's critique of RG3 as anything other than damning? Now, my take is that while Chris is obviously far better qualified to make such judgments than the average fan like us, some of these things that look true this year were absolutely not true last year. Particularly the accuracy problems. Last year RG3 seemed to be very accurate, so there must be an explanation for this dramatic decline, and accuracy issues are generally caused by poor mechanics (in players that have previously proven to be accurate).

So what is the root cause of the poor mechanics? Is it th knee or the brace? They insist that the knee is fine. You can't blame missing camp and preseason as a valid excuse in week 14, with 13 games under his belt. So that leaves only two possibilities ... RG3 is not responding well to his coaching ... or he's not being coached very well. We better hope it's the latter.



Ray, I think it is more of a case that Robert is more of a project. The reason why people went out on a limb for him was because he has so much upside and is a smarter,and way better athlete. If I have a really good QB already in place, then no way I play him (Robert). We had nothing and no way of getting anyone other than trading up and trying to get someone. He is coming back from repaired knees.

Yes, I read CC critiques as being spot on. He hangs up on people blasting Robert. He says "I wont take that" I listen to it live on my way home from work."

The root cause IMO is Shanahan taking on too much responsibilities. If he was the just HC, then I think we are way better. He has done good things as both the head coach and personnel guy. He has also screwed up many things as personnel and HC. For example, if he is straightening out our FO, or having to deal with the Washington press, or having to deal with a bad hand given, or having to deal with an owner that makes his presence known, or a young QB that is acting his age, I think I can understand just how difficult that can be.

I wont forgive Shanahan for the leak or atleast not putting a stop to it. Joe Gibbs never would have let this manifest.

IMO he is just a good coach in his day.

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Re: Cooley on RG3 and Cousins

Postby RayNAustin » Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:18 am

Hey, I think some of you guys are misunderstanding my points ... I don't think it's possible to say at this point, whether the price paid for Robert was too high, and certainly there is no justification for considering him an error. Furthermore, I won't even entertain the notion that Captain Kirk is a better option. I like Cousins, and I think he could be an effective starter, but he doesn't have the raw talent that RG3 possesses.

My opinion is, RG3 has suffered two setbacks .. the injury being one, and the way he was used last year being the other. He wasn't groomed and developed as a drop back passer last year, but instead, Kyle incorporated a more familiar college style read option for which Robert excelled, but left him injured, which was the big fear voiced by many (including myself) when drafting a running QB.

So this year, he's slowed by the injury, and nobody will convince me he's 100% ... if he is fully healed, then he sufferef permanent damage, because he has nothing close to the speed and mobility-elusiveness of last year. So, combine that with a big change in moving to a drop back style for which he has little familiarity, and problems with throwing mechanics, and you have what we have ..... a young QB struggling to make the transition this year which should have begun last year. In effect, he's a first year rookie hampered by a serious injury that he hasn't fully recovered from.

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