Lay off RGIII

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Re: Lay off RGIII

Postby cowboykillerzRGiii » Tue Dec 24, 2013 5:21 pm

SkinsJock wrote:Bob has had 2 seasons and we have won 1 NFC East title

let's let this play out a bit before we think he's not going to be a very good QB

most everyone with any sense at all or who really knows anything about which QBs are going to be great or not KNOW that Bob is one of those

AND - can the thought that we might have given up too much - there is no such thing when you have a franchise QB and especially one like Bob

Yep...,One of your very best posts yet! Ty sir, merry crema!
#21 forever in our hearts
...and yet ANOTHER record setting performance by "RG3 the third"!!!!
“I wanted to just… put his lights out ….because, you know, …Dallas sucks…” - Dexter Manley

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Re: Lay off RGIII

Postby OldSchool » Tue Dec 24, 2013 5:37 pm

Skinsfan55 wrote:
OldSchool wrote:Put the racial talk were the sun don't shine. Maybe the race of players are important to you maybe you have a racial agenda but the rest of want wins.


It would be ignorant to pretend that attacks on RGIII's mental acuity and work ethic aren't at least in part, racially motivated. It's the same knock we've heard about African American QB's since the color barrier was broken. Also, it's equally ignorant to highlight on that point since it was far from the main idea of my post.


Baloney! People taking on highly accountable roles are going to be critiqued and race doesn't have a thing to do with it and using race to escape accountability is a non starter. Griffin doesn't know how to read defenses, not before the snap so he can adjust the protection and not after it so he quickly knows where the man will be open and get it out. I can understand it taking longer for Griffin than Cousins after the snap because even though Griffin has had 10 times as many because processing as quick as Cousins really isn't something many people can do but please explain to me why after 2 years Griffin still hasn't learned to read pre snap defenses well enough to change his protection before the snap? If it isn't Griffin's lack of dedication to the task what is it?

Don't bother trying to tell me Griffin needs more time to learn this or Cousins knows how to do it because he learned how in college. Cousins' college team didn't face NFL defenses nor did they run the Redskin offense with its protection schemes and call signals. Cousins learned this in Ashburn. Cousins and Griffin came in at the same time and despite Griffin getting prepped and starting 29 times to Cousins' 3 times Cousins is the one who understands things and Griffin is the guy trying to play backyard ball in the NFL. How do you account for it. It's either Griffin is no where as smart as Cousins or Griffin didn't put in nearly as much time and effort as Cousins or both. What is your explanation?
********************************* Spoiler Alert **************************************

"Robert has to learn the new system!" Will be the party line in 2014

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Re: Lay off RGIII

Postby OldSchool » Tue Dec 24, 2013 6:40 pm

Colorado Skin Fan wrote:Agreed. No doubt he a confident guy. That confidence has been exploited by the media to create controversy. Playing Cousin's has provided some insight. The items we believed were issues are proven out in Kirk's play. Kirk makes faster decisions at this point. He anticipates better and throws to a spot. Both items that Griffin will improve on dramatically, just as Cam Newton has. The things that are missing from Kirk's game are the things that can't be taught. They are the things that make Robert the future of the franchise. It's the swagger it takes for a confident playmaker to put that final drive together or make a play when it's most needed. He's the guy that can take an off-schedule play and make things happen when it appears nothing is there.

He is still the hardworking, smart, confident, playmaker that won rookie of the year in his first year. He maybe needed a confidence check and he's gotten that. I expect for him to come in with a mission, and new coach, and have a great offseason. They will get him some more help with the additional available cap space (line help and and another playmaker at receiver). He'll come back with a mission to restore his image and will tear the league-up. He's going to be fine.


Things missing from Kirk's game that can't be taught? If you are talking about 4.4 speed and throwing the ball 80 yards sure, he won't pick those things up. But it would be very premature to say Kirk can't learn to lead end of game winning drives on the basis of his 3 starts. What is it with you guys who think Cousins can't improve but are certain Griffin will develop a strong pocket passing game despite the absence of progress in 29 starts? Griffin still can't make a pre snap read but you're all convinced he can learn the thinking man's part of the game but Cousins who already handles the thinking part of it very well can't improve his 2 minute drill execution, that's just ridiculous.

Cousins will never have 4.4 speed like Griffin but is there a quarterback in the Hall of Fame that possessed great speed? Maybe John Elway when broke into the league he was pretty quick early in his career but I don't know if he was Griffin quick. Will Cousins ever be able to throw the ball 80 yards? I don't think so but I think his bomb to Robinson travelled over 60 yards in the air which is long enough on a football field. There are plenty of Hall of Fame quarterbacks that didn't have 80 yard arms and lots of flops who did but couldn't make the right reads quick and throw the ball accurately like Cousins.

I like Cousins chances of cutting his interceptions and improving his two minute drill with more work with his receivers much better than I like Griffin's chances becoming a competent pocket passer and staying in the league, especially with his attitude.
********************************* Spoiler Alert **************************************

"Robert has to learn the new system!" Will be the party line in 2014

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Re: Lay off RGIII

Postby Kilmer72 » Tue Dec 24, 2013 7:38 pm

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:Cousins' first two NFL starts pale in comparrison to rgiiis- rookie starts with less time in the system then Cousins vs better teams...
If wins are all that counts Cousins is in the hole... Vs some crappy teams too.

Can the rgiii haters let us have this one fn thread?? Please?! Smmfh


Fraid not cowboykillerz. Oh they will be quiet when Robert comes out next year looking like his old self but, the minute he makes a mistake they will call him a bust again.

I think he did pretty well considering he had to come back from surgery on two knees.

It was valuable experience he got this year and I think the humility he experienced was worth it as well. Trust me he will not lose his "IT" factor. He is worth everything spent.

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Re: Lay off RGIII

Postby cowboykillerzRGiii » Tue Dec 24, 2013 7:56 pm

Kilmer72 wrote:
cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:Cousins' first two NFL starts pale in comparrison to rgiiis- rookie starts with less time in the system then Cousins vs better teams...
If wins are all that counts Cousins is in the hole... Vs some crappy teams too.

Can the rgiii haters let us have this one fn thread?? Please?! Smmfh


Fraid not cowboykillerz. Oh they will be quiet when Robert comes out next year looking like his old self but, the minute he makes a mistake they will call him a bust again.

I think he did pretty well considering he had to come back from surgery on two knees.

It was valuable experience he got this year and I think the humility he experienced was worth it as well. Trust me he will not lose his "IT" factor. He is worth everything spent.


Right again Kilmer! Lmao Ur on a roll!
Seriously though, this year was important to the development of RGIII... We will one day laugh it off as we fill Twitter with hashtags like #worthit, #rgiiiwinning, #httrg3, #rgiiiRings, #lordoftheRiiings, #cowboykillerzRGiii!!!!!!!!
#21 forever in our hearts
...and yet ANOTHER record setting performance by "RG3 the third"!!!!
“I wanted to just… put his lights out ….because, you know, …Dallas sucks…” - Dexter Manley

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Re: Lay off RGIII

Postby cowboykillerzRGiii » Tue Dec 24, 2013 8:12 pm

Ok. I'll feed the troll.. Ur up on Cousins, I get it.. he's a cool guy. He is making progress, great!
Now take off those captain Kirk glasses and look at rgiii, excuses aside, realistically.
Put Baylor on the map, one of the most athletic and accurate qbs to win the heisman
Transforms the NFL in one year, breaking records left and right. Wins rookie of the year honors and takes the worst team in the NFCe to the playoffs, despite the skins still being a weak team.. Coaches and pride destroy his leg- carreer ending not very long ago.
Then he Comes back from it, missing important practice time (that kirk had nonetheless) and fares pretty well. All things considered he put up equal numbers save some rush yards.. more inc passes and ints, but the team around him isn't anything to brag about.

U talk about Cousins like he's directing traffic ala Payton Manning.. get real man! He's still the league's best BACKUP. RGiii will regain his accuracy and learn the position more count on it.. his year isn't a fraction as bad as you would love to paint it. Research, come back with facts, video, something... Scrolling through your pointless bitching has gotten tiresome already. Start a thread and live in it, I'm sure you'll get visitors... Deal?
#21 forever in our hearts
...and yet ANOTHER record setting performance by "RG3 the third"!!!!
“I wanted to just… put his lights out ….because, you know, …Dallas sucks…” - Dexter Manley

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Re: Lay off RGIII

Postby Kilmer72 » Tue Dec 24, 2013 8:24 pm

=D>

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Re: Lay off RGIII

Postby OldSchool » Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:21 pm

What Griffin did in college? Who cares what he did or didn't do in college. As for 2012, what he accomplished in 2012 is once again like Vick and other running quarterbacks is prove you can't go through a 19-20 season NFL season with that backyard crap. Griffin is fools gold who will NEVER take the Skins deep into the playoffs unless he works very for a change on the mental part of the game and learns to become a pocket passer.

Folks on this board take it as a given that anyone who throws like a quarterback can in time learn to process and decide at NFL speed. I don't think it is automatic even if Griffin puts in the time learning which he currently hasn't done thus far. I don't think it is as simple as being bright, I think it takes a special gift to analyze and decide quick enough to excel in the NFL. Many smart people have no artistic or musical sense while some are great with language but not numbers. Cousins has got that rare kind of wiring between his ears to do QB at a high level, whereas Griffin has used his legs to avoid the challenge.
********************************* Spoiler Alert **************************************

"Robert has to learn the new system!" Will be the party line in 2014

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Re: Lay off RGIII

Postby Kilmer72 » Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:49 pm

I'll try to keep this one bookmarked POSTER. Too bad I will have to deal with a different name/handle I know whats up though. I admit when I am wrong. You wont be oldschool at that time. What a shame. Just like the other aliases.

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Re: Lay off RGIII

Postby SkinsJock » Wed Dec 25, 2013 12:03 am

don't feed the troll - dftt - I will not even read those posts
RG3 is now learning how to play QB in the NFL - Mike & Kyle did not help with the transition

Jay & Sean are going to make it happen ... "He has the ability and the desire, he just has to do it.” - J Gruden

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Re: Lay off RGIII

Postby Kilmer72 » Wed Dec 25, 2013 12:07 am

SkinsJock wrote:don't feed the troll - dftt - I will not even read those posts


Yeah your right but it is irritating.

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Re: Lay off RGIII

Postby Countertrey » Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:04 pm

Skinsfan55 wrote:
OldSchool wrote:Put the racial talk were the sun don't shine. Maybe the race of players are important to you maybe you have a racial agenda but the rest of want wins.


It would be ignorant to pretend that attacks on RGIII's mental acuity and work ethic aren't at least in part, racially motivated. It's the same knock we've heard about African American QB's since the color barrier was broken. Also, it's equally ignorant to highlight on that point since it was far from the main idea of my post.
What's ignorant is to fabricate "facts" that simply do not present themselves, in the name of creating a racial argument. It matters not that it's not a "main" idea in your post... the fact is, it is a part of your argument... and it's simply not supported by facts... it's just more cheap race baiting. You want to make an argument that he's being unfairly picked on? Fine... there may be some evidence for that... but I simply don't see any evidence to support your attempt to blame racism as a motivating factor for it. It's a cheap, lazy, and (in this case) unsupportable argument that's simply not worthy of the SF55 that I have known.
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Re: Lay off RGIII

Postby Countertrey » Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:12 pm

OldSchool wrote:
Skinsfan55 wrote:
OldSchool wrote:Put the racial talk were the sun don't shine. Maybe the race of players are important to you maybe you have a racial agenda but the rest of want wins.


It would be ignorant to pretend that attacks on RGIII's mental acuity and work ethic aren't at least in part, racially motivated. It's the same knock we've heard about African American QB's since the color barrier was broken. Also, it's equally ignorant to highlight on that point since it was far from the main idea of my post.


Baloney! People taking on highly accountable roles are going to be critiqued and race doesn't have a thing to do with it and using race to escape accountability is a non starter. Griffin doesn't know how to read defenses, not before the snap so he can adjust the protection and not after it so he quickly knows where the man will be open and get it out. I can understand it taking longer for Griffin than Cousins after the snap because even though Griffin has had 10 times as many because processing as quick as Cousins really isn't something many people can do but please explain to me why after 2 years Griffin still hasn't learned to read pre snap defenses well enough to change his protection before the snap? If it isn't Griffin's lack of dedication to the task what is it?

Don't bother trying to tell me Griffin needs more time to learn this or Cousins knows how to do it because he learned how in college. Cousins' college team didn't face NFL defenses nor did they run the Redskin offense with its protection schemes and call signals. Cousins learned this in Ashburn. Cousins and Griffin came in at the same time and despite Griffin getting prepped and starting 29 times to Cousins' 3 times Cousins is the one who understands things and Griffin is the guy trying to play backyard ball in the NFL. How do you account for it. It's either Griffin is no where as smart as Cousins or Griffin didn't put in nearly as much time and effort as Cousins or both. What is your explanation?
THIS argument requires a deliberate effort to NOT understand how complex the differences between a pocket concept and a spread/run concept are. Apparently, someone has no memory of the difficulty of developing muscle memory. Apparently, someone is arguing a point into the ground, simply for the pure joy of pissing people off. Is that the case? There is, otherwise, no indication that you have a clue how difficult it is to become a truly competent pocket quarterback. You give the appearance of being "Old School" in name only.
"That's a clown question, bro"
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Re: Lay off RGIII

Postby OldSchool » Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:59 am

[/quote] THIS argument requires a deliberate effort to NOT understand how complex the differences between a pocket concept and a spread/run concept are. Apparently, someone has no memory of the difficulty of developing muscle memory. Apparently, someone is arguing a point into the ground, simply for the pure joy of pissing people off. Is that the case? There is, otherwise, no indication that you have a clue how difficult it is to become a truly competent pocket quarterback. You give the appearance of being "Old School" in name only.[/quote]

Let me respond to a few of your points. First, I don't get angry if others don't see things the way I do or disagree when I express my opinions. If you get angry reading posts you disagree with than maybe participating on a message board isn't a good activity for you. As for my lack of understanding about the differences of quarterbacking a college option offense and an NFL offense like Shanny's, I may be the one on this board who MOST appreciates the big leap Griffin needs to make and the one who is the most skeptical that he can make this big leap. Griffin is I think best characterized as a "project" who lacks basic QB analytical and decision making skills and he hasn't made any discernible progress to acquiring them in two years and 29 starts. Yet there are posters on this board who are certain Griffin can learn how to read and decide as fast and effectively as Cousins.

Why I know it is possible for Griffin to learn to do these things I think it is clear he hasn't even begun. Griffin followed a path to the NFL that circumvented the process of being weeded out for failure to learn how read defenses and quickly make the correct decision under pressure. Now he is in the NFL and appears hapless trying to perform this core responsibility. In 2012 he got away playing a college game in the NFL until he didn't and was seriously injured. Will Griffin make big leap as a pocket passer in 2014? Perhaps but I doubt it, I think he'll take off his brace and run again and maybe he'll run so fast he'll beat the odds and finish the season. We'll see but I'd prefer it if the Skins around Cousins.

Cousins has prepped for and started 3 games for the Redskins and in those 3 starts he has passed for 800 yards, 6 TD with 4 INTs. His average stats per start are 260+ yards, 2 TDs and 1.3 INTs. If you compare his stats to the NFL leaders you'll find his yardage and TDs per start are up with leaders but the best QBs in the NFL only throw .7 INTs per game or half of Cousins' 1.3 per start. Can Cousins reduce his interceptions in half with more experience and playing time with his receivers? I like his chances of accomplishing that and becoming a very effective starting QB in the NFL. The ball was thrown a little behind his receivers in each of his 3 interceptions during his 2 starts this year. Given more practice and playing time with the starters I certainly believe Cousins can cut down on his interceptions, I wish Griffin's many shortcomings were as easily corrected but after 2 years if he hasn't learned to read defenses before the snap well enough to change protections I think it is questionable if he can master playing in the pocket well enough for the NFL.
********************************* Spoiler Alert **************************************

"Robert has to learn the new system!" Will be the party line in 2014

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Re: Lay off RGIII

Postby cowboykillerzRGiii » Thu Dec 26, 2013 12:19 pm

What a joke... Let's talk about Cousins stats but dismiss rgiiis? Dumb.
Cousins 3 starts were vs the 3 worse defenses in the NFL. The brownies last year (terrible) and two bottom of the barrel teams in atl and Dallas. No one should be getting too worked up about anything seen in those games, good or bad.
Next year the best qb will play. This thread is about.giving props where props are do, recognizing rgiiis progress with no off-season and returning from a serious injury. This thread is to notice he has improved in the pocket, makes his progressions better, and is running safer. It's to acknowledge that the team around him (or any qb you put back there) isn't quite championship material and our weaknesses even he can't cover up for ever. THIS thread is not to debate how much you prefer Cousins.
Let's stay on topic ok old-school? I know Ur.a fan not a mere troll, just a pist off one like a lot of us. Please remember how much rgiii gave you last year before dismissing the kid so fast eh?
Again I beg of you.. give us this one thread, please?
Can't you stink up the other rgiii hating threads (more then you already have)
Shake my mf head man
#21 forever in our hearts
...and yet ANOTHER record setting performance by "RG3 the third"!!!!
“I wanted to just… put his lights out ….because, you know, …Dallas sucks…” - Dexter Manley

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