Next Monday

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Re: Next Monday

Postby Kilmer72 » Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:30 pm

SkinsJock wrote:
StorminMormon86 wrote:Andy Reid. No more cap penalty.
These two things make me hopeful that a new coach can come right in and make us contenders again.


this type of thinking has no place here - Andy Reid went to a franchise with so many good things in place - the Chiefs are not better JUST because of Andy Reid

you really do not think that the Redskins franchise is as close to being ready to be competitive as the chiefs were - please confirm this

this is the sort of thinking that really worries me - fans that do not understand and think that all we need to do is bring in a good HC like Andy Reid and we'll be better

bringing in a better HC than Mike is more of a gamble than giving Mike 1 more season

we do need better coaching and we will benefit from the cap position that Mike & Bruce have put us in ...

we do not need to get rid of Mike to benefit from both those things


Mike has to go if we have a real chance now. You are right about Andy being the sole reason. He went out and got a game manager, he also took over a locker room that wasn't functioning even close to being what they are now. Give him credit.

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Re: Next Monday

Postby SkinsJock » Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:22 am

Some feel that Mike should be fired based on his record - I do not agree that we're more likely to have a better record with a new HC

I'm not really mad about the past season or how many games Mike has won since he got here - I'm more interested in what is best for this franchise going forward

Having Mike as the HC, adding some new players and making some coaching changes is the best way forward
The Redskins need to change to improve - we need a better GM and we need to do a better job of who we bring in to coach and play here - players and coaches need to be held accountable when they do not do their jobs well

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Re: Next Monday

Postby DarthMonk » Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:37 am

“I think that Dan felt last year — and Dan was aware of this by the way — that Mike was prepared at one point to walk away,” said Schefter. “Dan was aware. That’s not a surprise to him. He 100 percent knew that. How did he know that? I don’t know.”

Schefter admitted that he wasn’t privy to any conversations between the coach and owner, but he remained firm in his statement that Snyder knew Shanahan wasn’t happy.

“I can tell you 100 percent that Dan was aware of this,” said Schefter. “He was. I think his feeling was, Mike was overreacting and that things were gonna work out. Mike should basically continue to work hard and things should work out. Clearly they haven’t.”

The ESPN analyst also spoke about the relationship between Shanahan and Robert Griffin III.

“I think people know how RGIII feels about Mike,” he said. “And again, we can sugarcoat this all we want. We can dry to dress it up and call it ‘lukewarm.’ The bottom line is, he doesn’t like the coach and I don’t think he wants the coach here. Period. And we talked about this, the little triangle of power here in the organization, there are two guys on one side and one on the other. Two guys will win, one guy’s gonna lose. Although in this case, everybody loses.”
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Re: Next Monday

Postby SkinsJock » Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:53 pm

no matter who the coach is RG3 has to work his tail off and become a lot better
he's got all the attributes, he just flat out did not work hard enough to play at the level he's capable of

if the implication is that Griffin did not make as big an effort to improve or become a better QB because he did not get along with Mike (or Kyle) - that is WRONG
I have trouble believing that is the case with a kid with the character that RG3 is and has proven to be
Robert is going to work incredibly hard to become the best QB he can be because that is who he is

we're going to see a very different RG3 playing QB next season - my latest guess would be that Mike and Kyle will not be here
The Redskins need to change to improve - we need a better GM and we need to do a better job of who we bring in to coach and play here - players and coaches need to be held accountable when they do not do their jobs well

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Re: Next Monday

Postby DarthMonk » Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:01 pm

SkinsJock wrote:no matter who the coach is RG3 has to work his tail off and become a lot better
he's got all the attributes, he just flat out did not work hard enough to play at the level he's capable of

if the implication is that Griffin did not make as big an effort to improve or become a better QB because he did not get along with Mike (or Kyle) - that is WRONG
I have trouble believing that is the case with a kid with the character that RG3 is and has proven to be
Robert is going to work incredibly hard to become the best QB he can be because that is who he is

we're going to see a very different RG3 playing QB next season - my latest guess would be that Mike and Kyle will not be here


Nothing is being implied about work ethic at all. It's all about personalities.
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Re: Next Monday

Postby SkinsJock » Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:54 pm

the 'reports' are that Mike and Robert don't get along - I'm just pointing out that has ZERO to do with how badly he played this season

Robert's bad play at QB this season was due to a number of factors but all were because of his not doing whatever it takes to make the transition and take the next step

RG3 needs to put in the work and play at the level he's capable of - we only saw glimpses of that this season
The Redskins need to change to improve - we need a better GM and we need to do a better job of who we bring in to coach and play here - players and coaches need to be held accountable when they do not do their jobs well

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Re: Next Monday

Postby riggofan » Fri Dec 27, 2013 2:03 pm

SkinsJock wrote:
StorminMormon86 wrote:Andy Reid. No more cap penalty.
These two things make me hopeful that a new coach can come right in and make us contenders again.


this type of thinking has no place here - Andy Reid went to a franchise with so many good things in place - the Chiefs are not better JUST because of Andy Reid

you really do not think that the Redskins franchise is as close to being ready to be competitive as the chiefs were - please confirm this


You know I kind of agree with both of you guys on this. Or rather, I think you're both making fair points. The Chiefs really did have a pretty good team in place. Stud RB, very good defense. I wasn't surprised at all that a good coach like Andy Reid was able to take that team over and get them on the winning track.

I don't think we're in quite as strong a position as the Chiefs, but StorminMormon's point that a new coach sometimes CAN turn things around in a year is true too. The Eagles were last place in the NFC East last year too, and Chip Kelly has them in position to make the playoffs this year.

Those scenarios sound great to me. What I would find daunting is a coach coming here and wanting to rebuild the team from scratch again.
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Re: Next Monday

Postby DarthMonk » Fri Dec 27, 2013 4:30 pm

SkinsJock wrote:the 'reports' are that Mike and Robert don't get along - I'm just pointing out that has ZERO to do with how badly he played this season

Robert's bad play at QB this season was due to a number of factors but all were because of his not doing whatever it takes to make the transition and take the next step

RG3 needs to put in the work and play at the level he's capable of - we only saw glimpses of that this season


I think the reason for his bad play this year had very little to do with how much work he put in. To me it was way more about Mike Shanahan insisting on starting him game one. Griffin only failed to put in the necessary work due to the fact that he was rushed back. Some will say he rushed himself back and he did but he was not the final arbiter of whether or not he started game one. Mike Shanahan made that decision. If Griffin had been given basically a full year to recover (as he should have been) and was being put back in now, he would've had all the necessary work and I think he'd look a lot better than he did 16 weeks ago.

It is in this way that their relationship impacted his play. It appears Shannahan felt pressure from Griffin and/or Snyder or was still suffering from Griffin fever. Either way his relationship with Griffin was dysfunctional and led to all the problems we see now.

One final thing: If Shanahan had been able to not put Griffin back into the game against Seattle in the second half or if Shanahan had been able to not start Griffin in the first game this year he would probably have a fifth year waiting for him in Washington. As things stand now he probably does not. Then again maybe that's what he wanted all along.
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Re: Next Monday

Postby (d)oink » Fri Dec 27, 2013 5:30 pm

Goodbye Mike. Take Kyle with you.
What the....

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Re: Next Monday

Postby chiefhog44 » Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:39 pm

Let's play this out for a second. What if Kyle is allowed to leave, which I assume he would be fired by his dad, or would he be allowed to just quit and forfeit his pay. Not sure how that works, but let's just assume he leaves. There is no OC. Now Mike is expected to make demands, and if Dan doesn't want to meet those demands, but doesn't fire him...think about where that leaves us. Mike is not given an extension but is retained. Who is he going to bring in to OC for a lame duck coach? What even happens in that event? Dan refuses to fire him because of the 7 million...Mike refuses to quit because of the 7 million but is firing coaches or letting them walk. What a fiasco that would be
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Re: Next Monday

Postby Kilmer72 » Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:46 pm

chiefhog44 wrote:Let's play this out for a second. What if Kyle is allowed to leave, which I assume he would be fired by his dad, or would he be allowed to just quit and forfeit his pay. Not sure how that works, but let's just assume he leaves. There is no OC. Now Mike is expected to make demands, and if Dan doesn't want to meet those demands, but doesn't fire him...think about where that leaves us. Mike is not given an extension but is retained. Who is he going to bring in to OC for a lame duck coach? What even happens in that event? Dan refuses to fire him because of the 7 million...Mike refuses to quit because of the 7 million but is firing coaches or letting them walk. What a fiasco that would be


This is just one scenario of the many reasons why I think it is a bad idea to even give him (Mike) one last year.

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Re: Next Monday

Postby SkinsJock » Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:52 pm

DarthMonk wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:the 'reports' are that Mike and Robert don't get along - I'm just pointing out that has ZERO to do with how badly he played this season
Robert's bad play at QB this season was due to a number of factors but all were because of his not doing whatever it takes to make the transition and take the next step
RG3 needs to put in the work and play at the level he's capable of - we only saw glimpses of that this season
I think the reason for his bad play this year had very little to do with how much work he put in. To me it was way more about Mike Shanahan insisting on starting him game one. Griffin only failed to put in the necessary work due to the fact that he was rushed back. Some will say he rushed himself back and he did but he was not the final arbiter of whether or not he started game one. Mike Shanahan made that decision. If Griffin had been given basically a full year to recover (as he should have been) and was being put back in now, he would've had all the necessary work and I think he'd look a lot better than he did 16 weeks ago.
It is in this way that their relationship impacted his play. It appears Shannahan felt pressure from Griffin and/or Snyder or was still suffering from Griffin fever. Either way his relationship with Griffin was dysfunctional and led to all the problems we see now.
I do not agree with this
RG3 did not play well because he did not execute and did not make things happen - he failed to properly read defenses and he missed many receivers who were wide open
One final thing: If Shanahan had been able to not put Griffin back into the game against Seattle in the second half or if Shanahan had been able to not start Griffin in the first game this year he would probably have a fifth year waiting for him in Washington. As things stand now he probably does not. Then again maybe that's what he wanted all along.

Mike is most likely not here but his being fired or his not returning does not have anything to do with the Seattle game or what happened at the beginning of this season and everything to do with his performance as HC the last 4 years :D

RG3's fitness or lack thereof had nothing to do with how badly he played and the bad decisions he made later in the season as well as early in the season
RG3 was not able to play well because of a lack of development not because he was not fit enough - get over that - it has nothing to do with anything
The Redskins need to change to improve - we need a better GM and we need to do a better job of who we bring in to coach and play here - players and coaches need to be held accountable when they do not do their jobs well

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Re: Next Monday

Postby welch » Fri Dec 27, 2013 10:52 pm

I doubt we know enough to assert that Griffin and Snyder disagree with Shanahan, or that anything Shanahan does is part of a plan to force Snyder to fire him, or any of the hundred other plots that the sports entertainment "reporters" tell us. I see no evidence except for "anonymous sources", for people who want to spread gossip but do not want to defend what they spread.

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Re: Next Monday

Postby SkinsJock » Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:11 pm

welch wrote:I doubt we know enough to assert that Griffin and Snyder disagree with Shanahan, or that anything Shanahan does is part of a plan to force Snyder to fire him, or any of the hundred other plots that the sports entertainment "reporters" tell us. I see no evidence except for "anonymous sources", for people who want to spread gossip but do not want to defend what they spread.


ain't that the truth - I agree welch ... most of what we've been hearing is going to turn out to be just more BS from the DC media

going to be an interesting few days here
The Redskins need to change to improve - we need a better GM and we need to do a better job of who we bring in to coach and play here - players and coaches need to be held accountable when they do not do their jobs well

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