Question About QB Position...

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Postby SkinsJock » Tue May 22, 2012 8:49 am

from all reports and quotes from the WRs - it would seem that RGIII is showing that he has great touch and velocity with his passes at OTAs

just like a baseball player throws a ball on a rope from 3rd or deep in the hole with seemingly little effort a QB learns the proper technique of getting a ball where it has to be with either velocity or touch

some have bettter spirals than others - never having actually played - I would imagine that has more to do with hand size
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Re: Question About QB Position...

Postby Chris Luva Luva » Tue May 22, 2012 10:43 am

Clinton Portis wrote:Is it true, do you have to have a really strong arm to throw a deep ball, or is it all about Technique and how you throw it?

I was just wondering, because sometimes people say "so and so has no arm" and then they throw a 60 yard bomb to someone in a game.

So is it Technique, or Arm Strength?


Having a strong arm def makes things easier. However there are weaker armed QB's who have great anticipation and vision. They can see where the openining will be, anticipate the throw (throw it early) and negate the need of a rifle arm to fit it in a tight space.

However, if you have great anticipation, vision and a rifle arm, that's awesome too. LOL

Arm strength really helps with throwing out passes.
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Postby welch » Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:59 pm

Wow! A thread that started in 2005!

I'll add that Billy Kilmer was said to have small hands, which was why he sometimes threw ugly wobblers.

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Re: Question About QB Position...

Postby RG333 » Thu May 16, 2013 1:19 am

Clinton Portis wrote:Is it true, do you have to have a really strong arm to throw a deep ball, or is it all about Technique and how you throw it?

I was just wondering, because sometimes people say "so and so has no arm" and then they throw a 60 yard bomb to someone in a game.

So is it Technique, or Arm Strength?


Footwork. Footwork.

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Re:

Postby Kilmer72 » Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:05 pm

welch wrote:Wow! A thread that started in 2005!

I'll add that Billy Kilmer was said to have small hands, which was why he sometimes threw ugly wobblers.


Yeah, I know I am a little late but... Those were perfectly thrown "ugly wobblers"

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Re: Re:

Postby Countertrey » Sat Dec 28, 2013 8:56 pm

Kilmer72 wrote:
welch wrote:Wow! A thread that started in 2005!

I'll add that Billy Kilmer was said to have small hands, which was why he sometimes threw ugly wobblers.


Yeah, I know I am a little late but... Those were perfectly thrown "ugly wobblers"
They did tend to get where they needed to be...


OTOH, Jurgensen would have beaten Miami...

That's right... "I follow the Redskins... and I like Sonny"
Who, besides Welch, has the correct response?
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Re: Re:

Postby welch » Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:01 pm

Countertrey wrote:
Kilmer72 wrote:
welch wrote:Wow! A thread that started in 2005!

I'll add that Billy Kilmer was said to have small hands, which was why he sometimes threw ugly wobblers.


Yeah, I know I am a little late but... Those were perfectly thrown "ugly wobblers"
They did tend to get where they needed to be...


OTOH, Jurgensen would have beaten Miami...

That's right... "I follow the Redskins... and I like Sonny"
Who, besides Welch, has the correct response?


And everyone knew it. Don Shula spotted Sonny after the game and said, "It would have been different if you had played, Sonny". Kilmer threw at least two INTs in the end zone (Jake Scott?) after long drives. With Sonny, they would have been TDs.

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Re:

Postby Kilmer72 » Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:28 am

I was really too young to remember although I was watching the games then. Perhaps one of you guys can explain exactly what Kilmer brought to the table. My understanding was he was the coach's preference. Why? Did he hate Sonny for a reason? I never understood it. Wasn't Sonny coming off an injury too?

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Re: Re:

Postby Countertrey » Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:13 pm

Kilmer72 wrote:I was really too young to remember although I was watching the games then. Perhaps one of you guys can explain exactly what Kilmer brought to the table. My understanding was he was the coach's preference. Why? Did he hate Sonny for a reason? I never understood it. Wasn't Sonny coming off an injury too?
Remember my comments in the Cousins is Better thread? Kilmer ran the play that was called. Allen liked that. Jurgensen, unfortunately, understood defenses. He'd saunter up behind center, put his hands on his hips, and scan the field... and, often, audible to a pass. It didn't matter that it resulted in a touchdown... Allen called the plays. While both Billy and Sonny were not averse to party hardy, Sonny didn't care who knew about it. Billy, on the other hand, was far more discrete (even though, half the time, he was out with Sonny. The bottom line, Billy appeared to be disciplined, respectful, and the model of a team leader. He was also tough as nails, and couldn't pronounce "quit". There were times when he simply willed the team to win. Sonny... was Sonny. If he thought something was stupid, he had no problems saying so (refer to any Redskins broadcast when Sonny is offering his opinion for validation... I remember when he famously told his audience that something the revered Joe Gibbs did was not the smartest thing he'd ever seen... ummm... yeah).

George Allen wanted obedience. George Allen wanted predictability. George Allen had no sense of humor... and Sonny was disobedient, unpredictable, irreverent, and loved a good joke.
Therefore, Allen loved Kilmer. It didn't hurt that Billy was pretty effective. If you followed the Redskins, you loved both of them... unless you were George Allen. The Superbowl was moot. Jurgensen was injured, and unable to suit up... but, had he been playing, I have no doubt that the Dolphins would have ended the season 14 and 1.

Care to weigh in, Welch?
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Re:

Postby Kilmer72 » Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:29 pm

Thank you. I know I am his name sake but I would love to know what else he brought to the table. My oldest bro tells me he was more of a motivator. Anyone have an opinion on that?

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Re: Re:

Postby Kilmer72 » Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:39 pm

Countertrey wrote:
Kilmer72 wrote:I was really too young to remember although I was watching the games then. Perhaps one of you guys can explain exactly what Kilmer brought to the table. My understanding was he was the coach's preference. Why? Did he hate Sonny for a reason? I never understood it. Wasn't Sonny coming off an injury too?
Remember my comments in the Cousins is Better thread? Kilmer ran the play that was called. Allen liked that. Jurgensen, unfortunately, understood defenses. He'd saunter up behind center, put his hands on his hips, and scan the field... and, often, audible to a pass. It didn't matter that it resulted in a touchdown... Allen called the plays. While both Billy and Sonny were not averse to party hardy, Sonny didn't care who knew about it. Billy, on the other hand, was far more discrete (even though, half the time, he was out with Sonny. The bottom line, Billy appeared to be disciplined, respectful, and the model of a team leader. He was also tough as nails, and couldn't pronounce "quit". There were times when he simply willed the team to win. Sonny... was Sonny. If he thought something was stupid, he had no problems saying so (refer to any Redskins broadcast when Sonny is offering his opinion for validation... I remember when he famously told his audience that something the revered Joe Gibbs did was not the smartest thing he'd ever seen... ummm... yeah).

George Allen wanted obedience. George Allen wanted predictability. George Allen had no sense of humor... and Sonny was disobedient, unpredictable, irreverent, and loved a good joke.
Therefore, Allen loved Kilmer. It didn't hurt that Billy was pretty effective. If you followed the Redskins, you loved both of them... unless you were George Allen. The Superbowl was moot. Jurgensen was injured, and unable to suit up... but, had he been playing, I have no doubt that the Dolphins would have ended the season 14 and 1.

Care to weigh in, Welch?


Lol I believe you for sure. I never met him but one of my bros was a window washer.... He went to Sonny's house with his crew. They washed windows while Sonny drank my bro under the table and my bro was 26ish and Sonny old. :) I have no doubt that he has a sense of humor.

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Re: Re:

Postby Kilmer72 » Mon Dec 30, 2013 9:33 pm

Countertrey wrote:
Kilmer72 wrote:I was really too young to remember although I was watching the games then. Perhaps one of you guys can explain exactly what Kilmer brought to the table. My understanding was he was the coach's preference. Why? Did he hate Sonny for a reason? I never understood it. Wasn't Sonny coming off an injury too?
Remember my comments in the Cousins is Better thread? Kilmer ran the play that was called. Allen liked that. Jurgensen, unfortunately, understood defenses. He'd saunter up behind center, put his hands on his hips, and scan the field... and, often, audible to a pass. It didn't matter that it resulted in a touchdown... Allen called the plays. While both Billy and Sonny were not averse to party hardy, Sonny didn't care who knew about it. Billy, on the other hand, was far more discrete (even though, half the time, he was out with Sonny. The bottom line, Billy appeared to be disciplined, respectful, and the model of a team leader. He was also tough as nails, and couldn't pronounce "quit". There were times when he simply willed the team to win. Sonny... was Sonny. If he thought something was stupid, he had no problems saying so (refer to any Redskins broadcast when Sonny is offering his opinion for validation... I remember when he famously told his audience that something the revered Joe Gibbs did was not the smartest thing he'd ever seen... ummm... yeah).

George Allen wanted obedience. George Allen wanted predictability. George Allen had no sense of humor... and Sonny was disobedient, unpredictable, irreverent, and loved a good joke.
Therefore, Allen loved Kilmer. It didn't hurt that Billy was pretty effective. If you followed the Redskins, you loved both of them... unless you were George Allen. The Superbowl was moot. Jurgensen was injured, and unable to suit up... but, had he been playing, I have no doubt that the Dolphins would have ended the season 14 and 1.

Care to weigh in, Welch?


The more I reread this the more I am getting it. I take it Kilmer was more the rah rah guy and Sonny was smarter? I can see what happened now.

Kilmer ran the plays he was supposed to and Sonny changed them.

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Re: Question About QB Position...

Postby Countertrey » Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:03 pm

Kilmer was definitely NOT rah rah. He was simply tough as nails, and inspired through his force of will. He was kind of like Rambo. Yeah... Rambo. With a gravelly voice and a really bad arm... and a will to survive.

Kilmer72 wrote:
Kilmer ran the plays he was supposed to and Sonny changed them.
No... more like Kilmer ran the plays he was supposed to, and Sonny actually ran something that was appropriate to the defense he saw. If it was the play that was called by coach, he ran that.
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Re: Question About QB Position...

Postby welch » Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:52 am

Sonny called his own plays, and he mixed passes to everyone. Check the stats for passes to Jerry Smith, for instance. He was unpredictable, and that made Allen nervous. Allen's game plan, I thought, was to:

- be careful

- crowd the opposition closer and closer to their goal line

- get turnovers

- kick a field goal

Kilmer could throw a nice pass when he wound up and when the ball didn't slip. Pefect TD pass to Smith against the Packers during the playoff game against the Packers before SB 7. Partly a surprise, because Allen used Smith more as a decoy or a blocker.

Jurgensen used everyone, and nobody could predict what he would do. Jurgensen also was the best passer of his era, and probably in modern football. Sam Huff insists that Jurgensen could throw a curve-ball pass...Huff claims that Jurgy did that against him several times in practice. Sonny bent the ball around a defender.

Indelible memory: First Cowboy game in 1972, the game before Sonny snapped his achilles tendon. Cowboys started strong and Redskins bobbled a few handoffs. After five minutes, it was Dallas 13 (TD plus two field goals), Redskins 0.

Sonny strolled to the huddle, called a play, slowly walked to the line while pulling his pants over his beer-belly. Face showed that he had not a care in the world. Took the snap, stood up, and fired a down and out to Jerry Smith -- 20 yards. (who had been ignored when Kilmer started). Slowly walked back for the next play, and hit Larry Brown: another 20 yards.

The Redskins clawed back.

In the 4th Quarter, with a 1st down on about the Dallas 10, everyone expected Sonny to hand to Larry Brown...the Redskins first 1,000 yard rusher, by the way. Instead, Sonny faked to Larry and handed to Charlie Haraway, a lumbering FB but also a fine blocker and pass receiver. Brown threw a perfect cross-body block on the Dallas defender on he left side, folded him up, and Haraway breezed into the endzone without being touched.

That was Sonny's style of play-calling.

After that game, Sonny's completion percentage was about 66%...which nobody came near in those days.

The next game, Sonny went down for the season with he achilles tendon injury. Look at the stats for SB 7, and imagine if Sonny had been mixing plays around.

As CT says, the Dolphins would have lost.

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