Darrel Green has offered to help!

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Re: Darrel Green has offered to help!

Postby Chris Luva Luva » Thu Jan 16, 2014 5:45 pm

langleyparkjoe wrote:
Chris Luva Luva wrote:But I don't like the idea of him potentially undermining the teaching of the coach at that position.


Wait, our DBs were coached ?!?! :shock:


Our DB's were fine IMHO. Hall balled out. Amerson grew and showed why we drafted him. Biggers was decent when allowed to actually play his position and not FS. Merriweather did his thing. Reed was reliable and consistent as always. Rambo was what he was, a 5th round pick asked to do too much too soon.

The only person who REAAALLY struggled was Wilson.


Neo wrote:This is true, but all things the same, he was tutoring D. Hall this year, and Hall was on fire.

Doesn't guarantee his future success in coaching, but worth a deeper look.

Green is my all time favorite Redskin so if it happens and goes bad, I'd end up wishing it never happened.



Tutoring is fine. They can do that on their own time, or even after practice.


Countertrey wrote:A DB coach must be an expert in technique...

I truly don't know that DG has ever worried about technique...


Don't need technique when you can outrun anyone/everyone lol. I'm sure DG has a lot to teach in all seriousness, I just want it done through the proper channels.
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Re: Darrel Green has offered to help!

Postby Countertrey » Thu Jan 16, 2014 5:54 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
langleyparkjoe wrote:
Chris Luva Luva wrote:But I don't like the idea of him potentially undermining the teaching of the coach at that position.


Wait, our DBs were coached ?!?! :shock:


Our DB's were fine IMHO. Hall balled out. Amerson grew and showed why we drafted him. Biggers was decent when allowed to actually play his position and not FS. Merriweather did his thing. Reed was reliable and consistent as always. Rambo was what he was, a 5th round pick asked to do too much too soon.

The only person who REAAALLY struggled was Wilson.


Neo wrote:This is true, but all things the same, he was tutoring D. Hall this year, and Hall was on fire.

Doesn't guarantee his future success in coaching, but worth a deeper look.

Green is my all time favorite Redskin so if it happens and goes bad, I'd end up wishing it never happened.



Tutoring is fine. They can do that on their own time, or even after practice.


Countertrey wrote:A DB coach must be an expert in technique...

I truly don't know that DG has ever worried about technique...


Don't need technique when you can outrun anyone/everyone lol. I'm sure DG has a lot to teach in all seriousness, I just want it done through the proper channels.

My point, of course, is that you can't coach speed... and his speed meant he never had to master technique...
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Re: Darrel Green has offered to help!

Postby HEROHAMO » Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:01 pm

Speed and quickness is a skill which refined and polished. No one is born with 4.2 forty speed.
Trust me I have actually ran a 4.4 in my lifetime. Its starts all the way when you are in elementary. Those who eventually become the fastest are the ones playing tag, soccer, running around. Then when you hit high school you continue to keep on running and sprinting. Squatting, deadlifts, power cleans, sprints four times a week. College is when you can really kick up the training.

My point being it takes technique to be fast and quick. Now to be an elite cornerback you not only have to be fast, quick you also have to change direction very quickly. It takes technique alot of technique to do that well. Let alone be a Hall of Fame CB. If anyone knows technique its DG. Trust me you dont make it to the Hall of fame with talent alone. He earned all of his speed and technique. That is why I would love for him to show our players some of the hard work he put in. Share his workout routines. They can make all the difference in the world.
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Re: Darrel Green has offered to help!

Postby Kilmer72 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:09 pm

HEROHAMO wrote:Speed and quickness is a skill which refined and polished. No one is born with 4.2 forty speed.
Trust me I have actually ran a 4.4 in my lifetime. Its starts all the way when you are in elementary. Those who eventually become the fastest are the ones playing tag, soccer, running around. Then when you hit high school you continue to keep on running and sprinting. Squatting, deadlifts, power cleans, sprints four times a week. College is when you can really kick up the training.

My point being it takes technique to be fast and quick. Now to be an elite cornerback you not only have to be fast, quick you also have to change direction very quickly. It takes technique alot of technique to do that well. Let alone be a Hall of Fame CB. If anyone knows technique its DG. Trust me you dont make it to the Hall of fame with talent alone. He earned all of his speed and technique. That is why I would love for him to show our players some of the hard work he put in. Share his workout routines. They can make all the difference in the world.


He had all that and then some. What he wasn't was a zone guy. That doesn't mean he can't teach it though. There are many coaches out there that couldn't play at pro level. Only Marty tried to fit him in as a square peg in a round hole. The others let him be himself because he was that good.

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Re: Darrel Green has offered to help!

Postby Countertrey » Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:10 pm

We're going to disagree... DG had marginal technique, and relied on his speed when out of position, which happened more than you seem to remember... When you are as fast as he, you can do that. And, hamo... we both know that no one can exceed their physical ceiling... you have a built in top speed... and Green's was higher than everyone elses in the NFL... he worked hard enough... and had the God given gift... to keep it for nearly all of his career. Kilmer is right... the "other's let him be... he could do things nobody else could... unless you are an idiot, you don't mess with it. But, once again... what he did, you cannot teach. There are many HOF players who cannot coach... it's not a big deal... DG as a personal consultant... maybe... but I just don't know about a formal relationship with the team...

BTW... I'm ok with being wrong on this...
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Re: Darrel Green has offered to help!

Postby HEROHAMO » Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:21 am

Ya I hear ya. DGs ceiling was higher then most any human. PLenty of Hall of famers who cant coach either.

At the very least I think he could get our players faster and quicker. Maybe push some buttons. Then again RG3 could take some players and workout in the off season too?

But ya Im thinking if DG could help get our players to at least get to their full potential speed wise that wouldnt be too bad.

We all want whats best for our team.
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Re: Darrel Green has offered to help!

Postby Chris Luva Luva » Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:22 am

HEROHAMO wrote:Speed and quickness is a skill which refined and polished. No one is born with 4.2 forty speed.


I have to disagree, you are born with the ability to reach 4.2 speed. No amount of refinement or polishing will allow Hall, Wilson or Amerson to run a 4.2... Green was born with the ability to hit that mark and through his work ethic, he achieved it.

In addition, the fact that he's running similar speeds at 40+ goes to show that his ability is unique and innate to him.
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Re: Darrel Green has offered to help!

Postby Deadskins » Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:36 am

Kilmer72 wrote:Only Marty tried to fit him in as a square peg in a round hole.

I don't think that's true. Marty tried to help him refine his technique, and Green took offense. He thought that undermined him in front of the younger players like Champ Bailey. It wasn't like Marty asked him to play a new position.
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Re: Darrel Green has offered to help!

Postby riggofan » Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:38 am

Deadskins wrote:
Kilmer72 wrote:Only Marty tried to fit him in as a square peg in a round hole.

I don't think that's true. Marty tried to help him refine his technique, and Green took offense. He thought that undermined him in front of the younger players like Champ Bailey. It wasn't like Marty asked him to play a new position.


My memories of this are a little cloudy, but I sort of remember feeling like Darrell Green stuck around a year or two too long.

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Re: Darrel Green has offered to help!

Postby Deadskins » Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:00 am

riggofan wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
Kilmer72 wrote:Only Marty tried to fit him in as a square peg in a round hole.

I don't think that's true. Marty tried to help him refine his technique, and Green took offense. He thought that undermined him in front of the younger players like Champ Bailey. It wasn't like Marty asked him to play a new position.


My memories of this are a little cloudy, but I sort of remember feeling like Darrell Green stuck around a year or two too long.

I had mostly blocked it out after Green was inducted into the HOF, but when I watched the "A Football Life" episode about Marty, it all came rushing back.
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Re: Darrel Green has offered to help!

Postby Kilmer72 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:17 pm

Deadskins wrote:
Kilmer72 wrote:Only Marty tried to fit him in as a square peg in a round hole.

I don't think that's true. Marty tried to help him refine his technique, and Green took offense. He thought that undermined him in front of the younger players like Champ Bailey. It wasn't like Marty asked him to play a new position.


What ever you would like to call it, no one else was messing with the HOF corners technique. Now if Marty had Peyton Manning and tried to "refine" his technique I would find that a bit odd also. There is always room to improve.
The way you go about it should be considered when dealing with someone that knows how to play the position and play it well.

Don't get me wrong. I actually liked Marty a lot. He just came off as the general, didn't respect the icon and that was my only issue with him. Maybe you feel it was appropriate. That is fine. We all have our opinions.

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Re: Darrel Green has offered to help!

Postby Chris Luva Luva » Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:40 pm

Kilmer72 wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
Kilmer72 wrote:Only Marty tried to fit him in as a square peg in a round hole.

I don't think that's true. Marty tried to help him refine his technique, and Green took offense. He thought that undermined him in front of the younger players like Champ Bailey. It wasn't like Marty asked him to play a new position.


What ever you would like to call it, no one else was messing with the HOF corners technique. Now if Marty had Peyton Manning and tried to "refine" his technique I would find that a bit odd also. There is always room to improve.
The way you go about it should be considered when dealing with someone that knows how to play the position and play it well.

Don't get me wrong. I actually liked Marty a lot. He just came off as the general, didn't respect the icon and that was my only issue with him. Maybe you feel it was appropriate. That is fine. We all have our opinions.


A bit of humility would have served both men well in that situation...
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Re: Darrel Green has offered to help!

Postby Deadskins » Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:01 pm

Kilmer72 wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
Kilmer72 wrote:Only Marty tried to fit him in as a square peg in a round hole.

I don't think that's true. Marty tried to help him refine his technique, and Green took offense. He thought that undermined him in front of the younger players like Champ Bailey. It wasn't like Marty asked him to play a new position.


What ever you would like to call it, no one else was messing with the HOF corners technique. Now if Marty had Peyton Manning and tried to "refine" his technique I would find that a bit odd also. There is always room to improve.
The way you go about it should be considered when dealing with someone that knows how to play the position and play it well.

Don't get me wrong. I actually liked Marty a lot. He just came off as the general, didn't respect the icon and that was my only issue with him. Maybe you feel it was appropriate. That is fine. We all have our opinions.

Maybe he went about it wrong, but I feel his interests were in making Green the best player he could be. As CT said, Darell's speed allowed him to make up for his average technique. I don't think your Peyton Manning example is apt. First, Marty was a defensive coach. And second, Peyton's technique isn't lacking, and doesn't need refining, but I bet the Broncos still employ a QB coach. And I'm guessing he also tries to help his player be the best he can be.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:A bit of humility would have served both men well in that situation...

+1
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Re: Darrel Green has offered to help!

Postby HEROHAMO » Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:53 am

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
HEROHAMO wrote:Speed and quickness is a skill which refined and polished. No one is born with 4.2 forty speed.


I have to disagree, you are born with the ability to reach 4.2 speed. No amount of refinement or polishing will allow Hall, Wilson or Amerson to run a 4.2... Green was born with the ability to hit that mark and through his work ethic, he achieved it.

In addition, the fact that he's running similar speeds at 40+ goes to show that his ability is unique and innate to him.


When you are born you are a lil baby drinking milk from a bottle.

If you go to the local hospital and look at all the newborns. Will you be able to pick out the kids who are going to be fast?
Can you predict that newborns habits and activities when he is growing up?

Newborns are on average about the same weight. The healthy ones at least. From there it begins. Its in the parents hands obviously right from the go.

Will the parents overfeed the kid and have him be overweight? Will that parent underfeed the kid? Will the kid be breasfed which is said to be healthier for the kid.

When this kid grows up will he play outside? Or will he play video games like kids these days?

Look at Communist Nations. They pick children and raise them to be Olympians. Many times medal winning Olympians.

If you were to go to the local hospital and those parents gave their newborns to a track coach to raise them to be sprinters. All of those kids would be signifigantly faster then the average human. Some of them would acheive world class speed. Maybe even most.
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Re: Darrel Green has offered to help!

Postby Countertrey » Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:23 am

HEROHAMO wrote:Look at Communist Nations. They pick children and raise them to be Olympians. Many times medal winning Olympians.



Ludicrous...
Communist nations invested HUGE amounts of resources into their athletes.
How many communists have become the world's fastest man (without the benefit of an assist from the idiotic Carter boycott)?

0. Nada. Zip. Wow... if world class training improves foot speed, then... how can this be???

Total Medals in History of the Modern Olympic Games:
USSR: 1204
PRC: 517

USA: 2653

Seems that somehow, even without government sponsorship and training of it's world class athletes, the US did ok... Your argument is unsupportable.

While it's certainly true that training can increase the amount of weight an individual can move, or that you can increase endurance, or the accuracy which which you can maneuver a snow board, this is NOT true of foot speed. Foot speed is the ONE area where gains are marginal (especially in comparison with other very fast individuals), no matter how well trained. In order to develop 4.2 speed, you must start from a place that is already close to that without the training...
As an example, no one EVER trained harder than Jerry Rice. His best 40 time EVER was 4.6, in college. He ran a 4.7 at the Combine. It was around 4.6, 4.7 through the prime of his career. Everyone has a ceiling that is physiologically programed based on genetics.
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