Offseason Plusses and Minuses

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Offseason Plusses and Minuses

Postby KazooSkinsFan » Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:08 pm

Plus

- Sitting Griffin - Shannahan obviously knew he was gone by that point, but he did the team a solid by sitting Griffin the last three games. The easy thing for him was to just play him. He did the team a solid. Now Griffin has had a great offseason. He was still gimpy and the line was a sieve. What a disaster it would have been for the team if he'd gone down again and was rehabbing again.
- Pass Rush - obviously we addressed that well.
- Safety - Yeah, I wanted a good FA, but we did the right thing with what the bidding went up to. Safety isn't worth those numbers. Backup of signing Clark and developing the kids is a better plan than tying up so much of our cap at safety.
- WR - With a mobile, more careful Griffin with his arm, wow, our O could be great. And then while they chase our receivers down the field we mix it up with Morris? Morris did fine when they were keying on him. Please oh please don't suck O-line...

Minus

- O-line - One starter isn't enough after the sieve we had last year. We need to put more into O-line. I hope there's a guy we're targeting with our top pick.
- Cornerback - I'm nervous. I'd feel better if we had upgraded safety more at least, but the combo is scary given our inability to stop anyone last year on any down much less third. The only real upgrade is Clark from a secondary that couldn't stop anyone last year. Yeah, a better rush would help, but they were just so bad.
- Not firing Haslett. I hope it's true Shannahan tied his hands and that's why our D was so bad, but why would Shannahan do that when it was making our D so bad? I'm not convinced.

Just not sure

- Jay Gruden - I would feel a lot better about this if he were not Jon Gruden's brother. Seems hard to separate how much hoping he's Jon influenced the pick. I do feel better if Allen truly picked him, not Snyder. I like the choice of going to an established OC or DC on the HC track rather than a college guy right now, but I'm just on the fence about Jay.

Regarding D-Jax, the character part does make me nervous, but one thing I love about being a Redskin fan is we are always in there trying. Growing up a Lions fan as a kid, no, you can't count on that being the case. I switched allegiance in 1981, Gibbs first year. The first years were good. But even though the last couple decades haven't been, as long as we're trying, I'll be behind the Skins. The spoiled fans have no idea what it's like having an owner who has no desire to put anything but a mediocre product on the field year after year like the late Whitey Ford.
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Re: Offseason Plusses and Minuses

Postby riggofan » Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:49 pm

Interesting stuff, and I think a lot of people share your concern about the corners and safeties. I just keep telling myself we can't be worse than last year. :)

Regarding Gruden, guess we'll see if he has what it takes to be a head coach. Personally I think that making the jump from OC to HC is more what I'm concerned about than the fact that he is Jon Gruden's brother. I know people around here are sensitive to that because of Mike/Kyle, but there is no shortage of guys in the NFL who have been successful and have family members who have done well in the NFL also. That's a non-issue to me.

I like that he's worked with Marvin Lewis and Mike Nolan with the Bengals. Those guys can coach, and all three of them had success with the Bengals. More than anything I hope he has a good first year and can get some momentum going. Avoid the DC media meat grinder as much as possible early on.

We'll see about Haslett too. Personally I would probably call that one a wash at this point. I think we probably could have hired a better DC, but maybe having a little continuity in the coaching staff will pay off. I agree with your point that he needs to show it this year.

I'll throw out here that I think bringing back Orakpo was a plus. If you were following free agency, that would have been a tough spot to fill if we had not franchised him. Might not be the ideal situation but its one less hole to worry about.

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Re: Offseason Plusses and Minuses

Postby KazooSkinsFan » Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:46 pm

riggofan wrote:Interesting stuff, and I think a lot of people share your concern about the corners and safeties. I just keep telling myself we can't be worse than last year. :)

Regarding Gruden, guess we'll see if he has what it takes to be a head coach. Personally I think that making the jump from OC to HC is more what I'm concerned about than the fact that he is Jon Gruden's brother. I know people around here are sensitive to that because of Mike/Kyle, but there is no shortage of guys in the NFL who have been successful and have family members who have done well in the NFL also. That's a non-issue to me.

I like that he's worked with Marvin Lewis and Mike Nolan with the Bengals. Those guys can coach, and all three of them had success with the Bengals. More than anything I hope he has a good first year and can get some momentum going. Avoid the DC media meat grinder as much as possible early on.

We'll see about Haslett too. Personally I would probably call that one a wash at this point. I think we probably could have hired a better DC, but maybe having a little continuity in the coaching staff will pay off. I agree with your point that he needs to show it this year.

I'll throw out here that I think bringing back Orakpo was a plus. If you were following free agency, that would have been a tough spot to fill if we had not franchised him. Might not be the ideal situation but its one less hole to worry about.


Good points, thanks riggo. I was including Orakpo in the rush section which I agree is a positive. I like the Hatcher signing. I think we definitely improved our pass rush, which we badly needed. I'm not against Jay, I did put him in the toss up category, I'm not saying it's bad. Just not sure. There is no safe pick, college HC or pro OC or DC. At least pro coordinators are working with pro coaches already. I don't think Spurrier's problem was Spurrier, I think it was that he hired such a college dominated staff. HC is primarily a leadership position.
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Re: Offseason Plusses and Minuses

Postby yupchagee » Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:32 pm

I'm not as worried about the OL as most seem to be. We've upgraded the interior where I think the problems were. DB & ILB worry me the most.

I'm not completely sold on Hatcher. He had a career year in his contract year & when he was playing in a 4-3.
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Re: Offseason Plusses and Minuses

Postby SkinsJock » Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:05 pm

I'm not all that concerned about the offensive line right now either ... we need to replace 4 of the 5 primary starters from last season as soon as we can
Last edited by SkinsJock on Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Offseason Plusses and Minuses

Postby KazooSkinsFan » Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:09 pm

yupchagee wrote:I'm not as worried about the OL as most seem to be. We've upgraded the interior where I think the problems were. DB & ILB worry me the most.

I'm not completely sold on Hatcher. He had a career year in his contract year & when he was playing in a 4-3.


I think you picked two areas where reasonable people can disagree.

With the OL, they weren't that bad two years ago. It seemed like we were set there. But last year was pretty bad. That's why I highlight it as a serious concern to me. What is your thinking they'll bounce back? I think that's a risky proposition.

Your concern on Hatcher is also reasonable, but I think this is a good situation for him. We have two other really strong rushers. If this were a case where the other team could focus on Hatcher I'd share your concern, but with Orakpo here also as a rush specialist and Kerrigan evolving into a great all around linebacker they can't take lightly on the rush, I think Hatcher should be in a good position to build on what he did. The point is was in a 4-3 though is a good one.
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Re: Offseason Plusses and Minuses

Postby KazooSkinsFan » Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:16 pm

SkinsJock wrote:I'm not all that concerned about the offensive line right now either ...

of the 5 primary starters from last season we need 4 of them replaced by the start of next season but that is doable


Hmmm. So you think in over two years we need 4 new linemen, but that we replaced only 1 the first year doesn't concern you? I find that reasoning a bit odd.

I just would be a lot more comfortable with what we did if we'd replaced at least one of Chester or Polumbus with a clear upgrade. If Polumbus plays well, we might be OK on the right side, but if he doesn't, we could be in a world of hurt like we were last year. With what is evolving to be a potentially potent offense, I'd hate the line to be our undoing.
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Re: Offseason Plusses and Minuses

Postby Deadskins » Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:40 am

I agree. We have all the skill positions on offense pretty much covered. The only way we aren't going to succeed offensively, is poor line play or an injury.
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Re: Offseason Plusses and Minuses

Postby SkinsJock » Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:32 am

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:I'm not all that concerned about the offensive line right now either ...

of the 5 primary starters from last season we need 4 of them replaced by the start of next season but that is doable


Hmmm. So you think in over two years we need 4 new linemen, but that we replaced only 1 the first year doesn't concern you? I find that reasoning a bit odd.

I just would be a lot more comfortable with what we did if we'd replaced at least one of Chester or Polumbus with a clear upgrade. If Polumbus plays well, we might be OK on the right side, but if he doesn't, we could be in a world of hurt like we were last year. With what is evolving to be a potentially potent offense, I'd hate the line to be our undoing.


I agree with you actually - I'm just reacting to the poor play from the O line last season ...

there are many reasons for the poor play and it's important that they address the issues - as the old cliche goes 'everything starts up front' and this applies to both the O line and defensive front too - we recently heard that one of our O linemen showed up for camp last year, not in great shape - you have to question his desire after playing a year and having a QB coming back from a horrific knee injury ... why would you not get yourself properly prepared to play?

We all know that our depth was affected badly by the cap BS and they really could not cut marginal players because of this ... but still ...

The FO and coaching staff need to ensure they do a better job in bringing in players to play on the O line and preparing them properly
I agree with you - our offensive weapons do look very exciting but they will need much better O line play than we had last season - great O line play takes time

I expect a big improvement from the QB - I'm sure that Scott and Jay will have him ready and will design an offense to take better advantage of all his skills than we saw last season this is not a knock on Kyle but rather just that RG3 is a lot better QB than we've seen and he will be a lot more confident having had time to get ready ...
I expect better play from the offense but that is not hard when you look at how badly we played offensively over the whole season

The biggest issue we need to address is that we need depth and we need to develop better continuity - on both sides of the ball

these take time and I think many here have unrealistic expectations ... My 2 cents
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Re: Offseason Plusses and Minuses

Postby riggofan » Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:41 am

SkinsJock wrote:I'm not all that concerned about the offensive line right now either ... we need to replace 4 of the 5 primary starters from last season as soon as we can


Hmmm. You must be at least a little concerned if you want to replace 80% of the offensive line. :)

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Re: Offseason Plusses and Minuses

Postby SkinsJock » Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:49 am

riggofan wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:I'm not all that concerned about the offensive line right now either ... we need to replace 4 of the 5 primary starters from last season as soon as we can


Hmmm. You must be at least a little concerned if you want to replace 80% of the offensive line. :)


LOL - well .... I'm optimistic that Scott and Jay will figure out how to ensure that the O line plays a lot better than they did - how hard can that be :lol:

I'm not against guys getting a chance to show they can get the job done but I would not be surprised to see everyone but Trent Williams lose their starting jobs by the first game of 2015 season
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Re: Offseason Plusses and Minuses

Postby yupchagee » Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:31 pm

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
yupchagee wrote:I'm not as worried about the OL as most seem to be. We've upgraded the interior where I think the problems were. DB & ILB worry me the most.

I'm not completely sold on Hatcher. He had a career year in his contract year & when he was playing in a 4-3.


I think you picked two areas where reasonable people can disagree.

With the OL, they weren't that bad two years ago. It seemed like we were set there. But last year was pretty bad. That's why I highlight it as a serious concern to me. What is your thinking they'll bounce back? I think that's a risky proposition.

Your concern on Hatcher is also reasonable, but I think this is a good situation for him. We have two other really strong rushers. If this were a case where the other team could focus on Hatcher I'd share your concern, but with Orakpo here also as a rush specialist and Kerrigan evolving into a great all around linebacker they can't take lightly on the rush, I think Hatcher should be in a good position to build on what he did. The point is was in a 4-3 though is a good one.


I see Lauvao & McGlynn as starters. Polumbus is average. Hurt &/or LeRibeus should be able to help. I don' see OL as a strength, but not a major area of concern
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Re: Offseason Plusses and Minuses

Postby KazooSkinsFan » Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:13 am

yupchagee wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
yupchagee wrote:I'm not as worried about the OL as most seem to be. We've upgraded the interior where I think the problems were. DB & ILB worry me the most.

I'm not completely sold on Hatcher. He had a career year in his contract year & when he was playing in a 4-3.


I think you picked two areas where reasonable people can disagree.

With the OL, they weren't that bad two years ago. It seemed like we were set there. But last year was pretty bad. That's why I highlight it as a serious concern to me. What is your thinking they'll bounce back? I think that's a risky proposition.

Your concern on Hatcher is also reasonable, but I think this is a good situation for him. We have two other really strong rushers. If this were a case where the other team could focus on Hatcher I'd share your concern, but with Orakpo here also as a rush specialist and Kerrigan evolving into a great all around linebacker they can't take lightly on the rush, I think Hatcher should be in a good position to build on what he did. The point is was in a 4-3 though is a good one.


I see Lauvao & McGlynn as starters. Polumbus is average. Hurt &/or LeRibeus should be able to help. I don' see OL as a strength, but not a major area of concern

McGlynn I assume you're thinking for Chester? He does have a bit more size. Polumbus wasn't bad two years ago, but last year he was awful. It wasn't just him, I can see thinking you hope we did enough to address it, but to say the line isn't a "major area of concern" after last year? With all the draft picks we spent on RG3 and the money we spent on receivers, I would have liked to find the money in there for an upgrade at RT.
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Re: Offseason Plusses and Minuses

Postby riggofan » Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:26 am

SkinsJock wrote:LOL - well .... I'm optimistic that Scott and Jay will figure out how to ensure that the O line plays a lot better than they did - how hard can that be :lol:

I'm not against guys getting a chance to show they can get the job done but I would not be surprised to see everyone but Trent Williams lose their starting jobs by the first game of 2015 season


hah! I hear you. Yeah, I don't know if the coaches can get those guys to play better. I would kind of believe most of the players are who they are at this point. But I would hope the coaches can put them in better situations to be successful.

Its not surprising that the o-line looked so much worse last year than in 2012. They were playing from behind in so many games and having to pass protect more. Hard to keep the defense honest in those games. I'd hope an improved Redskins defense will help them out keeping the scores closer - not to mention DJax stretching it out downfield.

I'm still hoping for a new RT when we draft next month!

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Re: Offseason Plusses and Minuses

Postby KazooSkinsFan » Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:06 am

riggofan wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:LOL - well .... I'm optimistic that Scott and Jay will figure out how to ensure that the O line plays a lot better than they did - how hard can that be :lol:

I'm not against guys getting a chance to show they can get the job done but I would not be surprised to see everyone but Trent Williams lose their starting jobs by the first game of 2015 season


hah! I hear you. Yeah, I don't know if the coaches can get those guys to play better. I would kind of believe most of the players are who they are at this point. But I would hope the coaches can put them in better situations to be successful.

Its not surprising that the o-line looked so much worse last year than in 2012. They were playing from behind in so many games and having to pass protect more. Hard to keep the defense honest in those games. I'd hope an improved Redskins defense will help them out keeping the scores closer - not to mention DJax stretching it out downfield.

I'm still hoping for a new RT when we draft next month!


Valid point on the having to come back all the time in 2013. Other teams could pin their ears back and go after us. And our rushing game was decent, which means the O-line did do something right. I'm always on the bashers, I'm not one of them. But wow, RG3 was a rag doll to the point they sat him to protect him for 3 games because the line was letting him get hit so often. We spent so much $$$ to upgrade the skill positions, I don't understand how people aren't more directly concerned. RG3 can't be running for his life again all year, it would undo all we did.

As a perspective though, I'm not as obsessed specifically with the O-line as the discussion may appear. That was just where the comments from my overall view of the off season have focused and I am more concerned than you guys seem to be, so I'm addressing that. I hope you're right. You very well could be, there was reason to be optimistic in 2012. But we can't let RG3 take a beating again this year like he did last year, it's certainly on my concern list.

We agree on hoping the right RT falls in our lap with our first pick. I totally believe in drafting the best player, not for position, but if the best player is an RT, bam!
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