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Washington Redskins' Game Day discussions for 2003, 2004, and 2005
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Postby Chris Luva Luva » Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:07 am

Irn-Bru wrote:I'm with you. It's frustrating to watch this team but it isn't all garbage. Worst of all would be to change our coaching staff now--didn't the late 90's / early 00's teach us anything as fans?!?!


We definately need to keep the coaching staff intact but it wont matter who's coaching as long as the core philosophy of this team remains intact. If we dont start using the draft and grow our own players, we'll never be successful. Never.
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Postby Mursilis » Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:12 am

Irn-Bru wrote:
reggiebrooks4life wrote:On the bright side. We ran the ball really well and besides a couple eagles drives, we were able to contain them fairly well. If you take away the pick for a touchdown and the fluke fumble recovery for a TD, that is only 14 points scored by the eagles. I especially like the tough goaline stand the defense had!

Also, why would you want to completely overhaul the roster and change coaches again? It generally takes a season to understand a new offensive system. Do you really want to start from scratch next year and suffer the same problems? Lets try to build off the good things we have going for us and spend money wisely to plug a few holes ( DT, CB, S)




I'm with you. It's frustrating to watch this team but it isn't all garbage. Worst of all would be to change our coaching staff now--didn't the late 90's / early 00's teach us anything as fans?!?!


Generally you're right, but this is the same coaching staff that seems to prefer losing with Brunell vs. winning with any QB under age 30. That huge blind spot, and the mindless trading away of draft picks, isn't exactly an endorsement of our current staff. Seems like most of this year's first-year head coaches are doing as good as, or better than, Gibbs 2.0. Heck, rookie head coach Eric Mangini up there with the Jets (5-4) just knocked off the Patriots, and the Jets haven't got half the talent we're wasting here. I'm not for a coaching change right now, but if Gibbs sticks with Brunell again next Sunday, it may be a different story.

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Postby Mursilis » Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:15 am

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
Irn-Bru wrote:I'm with you. It's frustrating to watch this team but it isn't all garbage. Worst of all would be to change our coaching staff now--didn't the late 90's / early 00's teach us anything as fans?!?!


We definately need to keep the coaching staff intact but it wont matter who's coaching as long as the core philosophy of this team remains intact. If we dont start using the draft and grow our own players, we'll never be successful. Never.


But is it not our current head coach who favors free agents over the draft? Gibbs is the one behind all those picks going to other teams. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the new arrangement, but isn't Gibbs basically running the personnel department now, not Snyder?

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Postby Irn-Bru » Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:18 am

Mursilis wrote:Generally you're right, but this is the same coaching staff that seems to prefer losing with Brunell vs. winning with any QB under age 30.


I think that's not true to reality. We only have one QB under 30 on our roster currently, and he doesn't seem ready to play. Ramsey, also under 30, was on this squad but isn't a good enough quarterback even to be 2nd string on a team that seemed to need him when they picked him up.

I agree that personnel decisions have had a bad impact on this team--it's something that I'm generally researching at the moment--but it looks to me like you're suspiciously pinning nearly all of our troubles on who's starting at QB once again. . .which, when I watch our team on Sunday, is one of our smaller problems right now. To talk QB decisions and coaching changes based on that alone is to ignore the majority of what's problematic with this team.
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Postby Mursilis » Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:46 am

Irn-Bru wrote:
Mursilis wrote:Generally you're right, but this is the same coaching staff that seems to prefer losing with Brunell vs. winning with any QB under age 30.


I think that's not true to reality. We only have one QB under 30 on our roster currently, and he doesn't seem ready to play. Ramsey, also under 30, was on this squad but isn't a good enough quarterback even to be 2nd string on a team that seemed to need him when they picked him up.

I agree that personnel decisions have had a bad impact on this team--it's something that I'm generally researching at the moment--but it looks to me like you're suspiciously pinning nearly all of our troubles on who's starting at QB once again. . .which, when I watch our team on Sunday, is one of our smaller problems right now. To talk QB decisions and coaching changes based on that alone is to ignore the majority of what's problematic with this team.


JC doesn't seem ready to play? Based on what? He was no worse than Brunell in the preseason, and he can't be much worse than Brunell now. Brunell offers nothing 20+ QBs in this league, and probably several college QBs, can't also offer with our talent on offense.

And yes, Brunell isn't the only issue, by a longshot. But Gibbs' decision to stick with him is perhaps emblematic of a refusal to learn and adapt to what's required to be successful these days. It's literally 2004 all over again.

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Postby Chris Luva Luva » Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:02 am

Mursilis wrote:
Chris Luva Luva wrote:
Irn-Bru wrote:I'm with you. It's frustrating to watch this team but it isn't all garbage. Worst of all would be to change our coaching staff now--didn't the late 90's / early 00's teach us anything as fans?!?!


We definately need to keep the coaching staff intact but it wont matter who's coaching as long as the core philosophy of this team remains intact. If we dont start using the draft and grow our own players, we'll never be successful. Never.


But is it not our current head coach who favors free agents over the draft? Gibbs is the one behind all those picks going to other teams. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the new arrangement, but isn't Gibbs basically running the personnel department now, not Snyder?


Yeah, be bought into the system. Its deeper than Gibbs. Danny is ONLY going to bring people in who can flow with him and Vinny. Dont expect someone with any balls to get hired, they'll get what Marty got.
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Postby Irn-Bru » Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:31 am

Mursilis wrote:JC doesn't seem ready to play? Based on what? He was no worse than Brunell in the preseason, and he can't be much worse than Brunell now. Brunell offers nothing 20+ QBs in this league, and probably several college QBs, can't also offer with our talent on offense.



Based on the coaches decisions, history, and the way that I see things right now. . .which is about all we have to go on as fans (each with their perspective on how they see things). IF Jason gave us a better chance to win on any particular week, in the coaches eyes, we'd have seen him by now. I also don't think his first start is too far off.

You have to remember that "ready" is word that is here relative to everything else around him. Campbell doesn't seem "ready" to play in my eyes. However, in another sense of the word, Campbell is "ready" to play--or at least we'd better hope that he is!--and I feel good about his ability to step in and begin learning the ropes.

It's just that sometimes, when QBs are "ready" to play, that doesn't mean that they give a team the best chance to win. So that's what I meant originally, when I used the term "ready" in the former (relative) sense, not the latter.
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Postby SkinsJock » Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:49 am

I'm also ready to see Cambell play but agree with FFA in that we both feel that Gibbs/Saunders are not ready to play him just yet. However, I also think that this will happen soon.

Campbell can come in and be great BUT IMO that will not give this team a better chance to win any games if the defense continues to play so badly and the offensive game plan and the play of the rest of the offensive players do not dramatically improve.

Much as I hate to say it I would not be surprised to see Brunell again this week for all the same old reasons. Gibbs does not think that is as big of a problem as the other parts of our football team.


If there is one good thing about this it is that with the terrible effort by our defense and offense this year no other team will be threatening to take any of our coaches away this year - although that possibility might not be a bad idea for some here :twisted:
Minds are like parachutes, they only work when they are open

RG3 will benefit from having a full off season to prepare and a better 'fit' at both HC and OC

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Postby Chris Luva Luva » Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:49 am

Irn-Bru wrote:Based on the coaches decisions, history, and the way that I see things right now. . .which is about all we have to go on as fans (each with their perspective on how they see things). IF Jason gave us a better chance to win on any particular week, in the coaches eyes, we'd have seen him by now. I also don't think his first start is too far off.

You have to remember that "ready" is word that is here relative to everything else around him. Campbell doesn't seem "ready" to play in my eyes. However, in another sense of the word, Campbell is "ready" to play--or at least we'd better hope that he is!--and I feel good about his ability to step in and begin learning the ropes.

It's just that sometimes, when QBs are "ready" to play, that doesn't mean that they give a team the best chance to win. So that's what I meant originally, when I used the term "ready" in the former (relative) sense, not the latter.


Where do you believe he isnt ready?

I honestly, can't see where he could be any worse at this point in the season. Brunell made rookie mistakes left and right. And IMO the team doesn't even allow Brunell to use his veteran skillset. He can't call audibles, he can't choose plays... He basically runs the play dictated to him and he's no longer able to execute when given time. Its just a fact.
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Postby RedskinsFreak » Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:58 am

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Yeah, be bought into the system. Its deeper than Gibbs. Danny is ONLY going to bring people in who can flow with him and Vinny. Dont expect someone with any balls to get hired, they'll get what Marty got.

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Postby Mursilis » Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:59 am

Irn-Bru wrote:
Mursilis wrote:JC doesn't seem ready to play? Based on what? He was no worse than Brunell in the preseason, and he can't be much worse than Brunell now. Brunell offers nothing 20+ QBs in this league, and probably several college QBs, can't also offer with our talent on offense.



Based on the coaches decisions, history, and the way that I see things right now. . .which is about all we have to go on as fans (each with their perspective on how they see things). IF Jason gave us a better chance to win on any particular week, in the coaches eyes, we'd have seen him by now. I also don't think his first start is too far off.


That's the crux of it all - 'in the coaches' eyes'. Maybe it's time for an eye exam?

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Postby Mursilis » Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:03 am

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
Mursilis wrote:
Chris Luva Luva wrote:
Irn-Bru wrote:I'm with you. It's frustrating to watch this team but it isn't all garbage. Worst of all would be to change our coaching staff now--didn't the late 90's / early 00's teach us anything as fans?!?!


We definately need to keep the coaching staff intact but it wont matter who's coaching as long as the core philosophy of this team remains intact. If we dont start using the draft and grow our own players, we'll never be successful. Never.


But is it not our current head coach who favors free agents over the draft? Gibbs is the one behind all those picks going to other teams. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the new arrangement, but isn't Gibbs basically running the personnel department now, not Snyder?


Yeah, be bought into the system. Its deeper than Gibbs. Danny is ONLY going to bring people in who can flow with him and Vinny. Dont expect someone with any balls to get hired, they'll get what Marty got.


Gibbs liked to trade away draft picks his first time in town also. I don't think there's been a single personnel move Gibbs hasn't personally greenlighted. Yes, Snyder does look for yes-men (Vinny) to run his team, but I don't think he'd ever stand up to Gibbs. Gibbs is a legend and old enough to be Snyder's dad - I don't think Snyder's leading him around in the least.

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Postby ClintonHill » Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:21 am

Irn-Bru wrote:I'm with you. It's frustrating to watch this team but it isn't all garbage. Worst of all would be to change our coaching staff now--didn't the late 90's / early 00's teach us anything as fans?!?!


I agree with this. Us fans need to take a deep breath and realize that while this season is a tragedy, we're not the Cardinals or the Raiders (even though our records are virtually the same :( )

Now is not the time to be firing coaches, especially Al Saunders. With his track record he deserves at least one more season to get things going. As for the roster, we definitely need help in some areas, but the core pieces are there, especially on offense.

We need to draft, draft, draft. Build team unity and continuity with core guys like Santana, Clinton, Randy Thomas, Marcus Washingtion, etc.

You can't buy (or hire) a championship.
You can't buy (or hire) a championship.
You can't buy (or hire) a championship.

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Postby Chris Luva Luva » Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:26 am

ClintonHill wrote:I agree with this. Us fans need to take a deep breath and realize that while this season is a tragedy, we're not the Cardinals or the Raiders (even though our records are virtually the same :( )


The 49ers have a better record than us....we're worse than they are.
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Postby Mursilis » Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:29 am

ClintonHill wrote:
Irn-Bru wrote:I'm with you. It's frustrating to watch this team but it isn't all garbage. Worst of all would be to change our coaching staff now--didn't the late 90's / early 00's teach us anything as fans?!?!


I agree with this. Us fans need to take a deep breath and realize that while this season is a tragedy, we're not the Cardinals or the Raiders (even though our records are virtually the same :( )

Now is not the time to be firing coaches, especially Al Saunders. With his track record he deserves at least one more season to get things going. As for the roster, we definitely need help in some areas, but the core pieces are there, especially on offense.

We need to draft, draft, draft. Build team unity and continuity with core guys like Santana, Clinton, Randy Thomas, Marcus Washingtion, etc.

You can't buy (or hire) a championship.
You can't buy (or hire) a championship.
You can't buy (or hire) a championship.


Ultimately you're both right, especially about the need to 'draft, draft, draft'. Unfortunately, the draft pick cupboard is a little bare right now, although our first rounder should be pretty good come the offseason.

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