What would make you happier?

Talk about the AFC, NFC, the NFL Draft, College Football... anything football that has no Washington Redskin relevance.

What would make you happier?

If the Cowgirls missed the playoffs by 1 game...again?
58
94%
Or the Cowgirls get to the Super Bowl and then get Humilliated really really badly?
4
6%
 
Total votes : 62
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Postby Skins2daGrave » Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:07 pm

why would a cowpuke fan come to a Redskins board? seriously, there are lots of cowgirl message boards out there
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Postby Primetime42 » Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:15 pm

JSPB22 wrote:
Primetime42 wrote:I'll be laughing all the way to the playoffs watching my team that was actually built the RIGHT way.

So how many of your WRs did you draft? How about your QBs, other than Romo? Maybe you are referring to your previous playoff wins. Oh that's right, you drafted Deion for those. Wait... what's the RIGHT way again?
You're joking, right?

C'mon JSPB, I expect much better from you. Other than Glenn and Owens, every receiver (and tight end) on the Cowboys roster (And they make plays, too, in case you hadn't watched) was either drafted or signed as a rookie free agent.

Seeing as how there's only 5 WR's on the roster to begin with... :roll:

How about our QB's? :lol: Dude, those in glass houses should not throw stones, because as far as I'm concerned, you don't even have one, just a guy that two 1st rounders were blown on that you're hoping makes the grade.

FYI, Deion came to Dallas in 95. Not sure you realized, but they had won 2 Super Bowls pretty easily without him by that point in the 90's and had done it pretty much the same way they're starting to do it now; the draft yielding youth and depth, add a couple vets who can play the scheme and build chemistry.

I'm pretty shocked, because coming from you, that was a really dumb post just there.

You're supposed to be a vet :wink:









PS: In case you didn't catch it, the RIGHT way is the way I mentioned a couple paragraphs up.
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Postby Deadskins » Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:50 pm

Primetime42 wrote:
JSPB22 wrote:
Primetime42 wrote:I'll be laughing all the way to the playoffs watching my team that was actually built the RIGHT way.

So how many of your WRs did you draft? How about your QBs, other than Romo? Maybe you are referring to your previous playoff wins. Oh that's right, you drafted Deion for those. Wait... what's the RIGHT way again?
You're joking, right?

C'mon JSPB, I expect much better from you. Other than Glenn and Owens, every receiver (and tight end) on the Cowboys roster (And they make plays, too, in case you hadn't watched) was either drafted or signed as a rookie free agent.

Seeing as how there's only 5 WR's on the roster to begin with... :roll:

How about our QB's? :lol: Dude, those in glass houses should not throw stones, because as far as I'm concerned, you don't even have one, just a guy that two 1st rounders were blown on that you're hoping makes the grade.

FYI, Deion came to Dallas in 95. Not sure you realized, but they had won 2 Super Bowls pretty easily without him by that point in the 90's and had done it pretty much the same way they're starting to do it now; the draft yielding youth and depth, add a couple vets who can play the scheme and build chemistry.

I'm pretty shocked, because coming from you, that was a really dumb post just there.

You're supposed to be a vet :wink:









PS: In case you didn't catch it, the RIGHT way is the way I mentioned a couple paragraphs up.

Not at all. I was just pointing out your hypocrisy. I never said the 'Skins haven't eschewed the draft for free agents. That was the point you were tyring to make about the 'Pies, no? I didn't even mention Vanderchoke, but Bledsoe, Testaverde, and pretty much every guy since Aikman, were not cowboy draft picks. Neither were Keyshawn, Glenn, nor TO. These are your building the right way guys? Please don't say you were only talking about this season. You don't build a team through the draft in one season. The 'Skins may have made some poor choices, but don't try and pass off the 'Pies, as some purely drafted team. I would be willing to wager that each team has around the same ratio of players they actually drafted.
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Postby forskins » Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:16 pm

JSPB22 wrote:Not at all. I was just pointing out your hypocrisy. I never said the 'Skins haven't eschewed the draft for free agents. That was the point you were tyring to make about the 'Pies, no? I didn't even mention Vanderchoke, but Bledsoe, Testaverde, and pretty much every guy since Aikman, were not cowboy draft picks. Neither were Keyshawn, Glenn, nor TO. These are your building the right way guys? Please don't say you were only talking about this season. You don't build a team through the draft in one season. The 'Skins may have made some poor choices, but don't try and pass off the 'Pies, as some purely drafted team. I would be willing to wager that each team has around the same ratio of players they actually drafted.


So name me one team since the advent of free agency that has done it strictly through the draft? If you can then name one that were actually contenders? Not going to happen... I'll eat my crow if you do.

Now the "Right" way as Primetime42 is referring to is building the foundation of your franchise with the draft and addressing the "needs" with free agency. Now why would those be needs? Departing Free agents, injuries, draft busts, etc...

So what happens when you trade away draft picks for higher priced players that effectively play the same time in games as high draft picks?r (Ducket, Lloyd, Archuletta). Is that building your team the right way?

Yes, I know Lloyd is NOW getting into the games, but, wouldn't a good 2-3 round rookie start showing up halfway through the season?

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Postby Primetime42 » Sun Nov 26, 2006 3:30 pm

forskins wrote:
JSPB22 wrote:Not at all. I was just pointing out your hypocrisy. I never said the 'Skins haven't eschewed the draft for free agents. That was the point you were tyring to make about the 'Pies, no? I didn't even mention Vanderchoke, but Bledsoe, Testaverde, and pretty much every guy since Aikman, were not cowboy draft picks. Neither were Keyshawn, Glenn, nor TO. These are your building the right way guys? Please don't say you were only talking about this season. You don't build a team through the draft in one season. The 'Skins may have made some poor choices, but don't try and pass off the 'Pies, as some purely drafted team. I would be willing to wager that each team has around the same ratio of players they actually drafted.


So name me one team since the advent of free agency that has done it strictly through the draft? If you can then name one that were actually contenders? Not going to happen... I'll eat my crow if you do.

Now the "Right" way as Primetime42 is referring to is building the foundation of your franchise with the draft and addressing the "needs" with free agency. Now why would those be needs? Departing Free agents, injuries, draft busts, etc...

So what happens when you trade away draft picks for higher priced players that effectively play the same time in games as high draft picks?r (Ducket, Lloyd, Archuletta). Is that building your team the right way?

Yes, I know Lloyd is NOW getting into the games, but, wouldn't a good 2-3 round rookie start showing up halfway through the season?
What he said.

I never said we built purely through the draft. The days of that are long past.
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SB????

Postby Charm City Sports » Sun Nov 26, 2006 4:31 pm

No way would I ever want to see another Cowboys team in the Super Bowl, never.ever.

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Postby Deadskins » Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:22 pm

Primetime42 wrote:
forskins wrote:
JSPB22 wrote:Not at all. I was just pointing out your hypocrisy. I never said the 'Skins haven't eschewed the draft for free agents. That was the point you were tyring to make about the 'Pies, no? I didn't even mention Vanderchoke, but Bledsoe, Testaverde, and pretty much every guy since Aikman, were not cowboy draft picks. Neither were Keyshawn, Glenn, nor TO. These are your building the right way guys? Please don't say you were only talking about this season. You don't build a team through the draft in one season. The 'Skins may have made some poor choices, but don't try and pass off the 'Pies, as some purely drafted team. I would be willing to wager that each team has around the same ratio of players they actually drafted.


So name me one team since the advent of free agency that has done it strictly through the draft? If you can then name one that were actually contenders? Not going to happen... I'll eat my crow if you do.

Now the "Right" way as Primetime42 is referring to is building the foundation of your franchise with the draft and addressing the "needs" with free agency. Now why would those be needs? Departing Free agents, injuries, draft busts, etc...

So what happens when you trade away draft picks for higher priced players that effectively play the same time in games as high draft picks?r (Ducket, Lloyd, Archuletta). Is that building your team the right way?

Yes, I know Lloyd is NOW getting into the games, but, wouldn't a good 2-3 round rookie start showing up halfway through the season?
What he said.

I never said we built purely through the draft. The days of that are long past.

Obviously, so why then did you try to make it out any different? I see you didn't take me up offer to check out the free-agent to draftee ratio for each team. BTW, despite the high-profile FA signings, the 'Skins core are drafted players. (3 OL, TE, QB, RB (now), 2 DL, 1 and 1/2 LB, 2 DB) So according to the two of you, the Redskins are building the right way. Go figure, we agree. :shock:
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Postby Primetime42 » Sun Nov 26, 2006 10:51 pm

JSPB22 wrote:
Primetime42 wrote:
forskins wrote:
JSPB22 wrote:Not at all. I was just pointing out your hypocrisy. I never said the 'Skins haven't eschewed the draft for free agents. That was the point you were tyring to make about the 'Pies, no? I didn't even mention Vanderchoke, but Bledsoe, Testaverde, and pretty much every guy since Aikman, were not cowboy draft picks. Neither were Keyshawn, Glenn, nor TO. These are your building the right way guys? Please don't say you were only talking about this season. You don't build a team through the draft in one season. The 'Skins may have made some poor choices, but don't try and pass off the 'Pies, as some purely drafted team. I would be willing to wager that each team has around the same ratio of players they actually drafted.


So name me one team since the advent of free agency that has done it strictly through the draft? If you can then name one that were actually contenders? Not going to happen... I'll eat my crow if you do.

Now the "Right" way as Primetime42 is referring to is building the foundation of your franchise with the draft and addressing the "needs" with free agency. Now why would those be needs? Departing Free agents, injuries, draft busts, etc...

So what happens when you trade away draft picks for higher priced players that effectively play the same time in games as high draft picks?r (Ducket, Lloyd, Archuletta). Is that building your team the right way?

Yes, I know Lloyd is NOW getting into the games, but, wouldn't a good 2-3 round rookie start showing up halfway through the season?
What he said.

I never said we built purely through the draft. The days of that are long past.

Obviously, so why then did you try to make it out any different? I see you didn't take me up offer to check out the free-agent to draftee ratio for each team. BTW, despite the high-profile FA signings, the 'Skins core are drafted players. (3 OL, TE, QB, RB (now), 2 DL, 1 and 1/2 LB, 2 DB) So according to the two of you, the Redskins are building the right way. Go figure, we agree. :shock:
Again, no.

Didn't know you actually wanted a ratio, but I'll do you one better, I'll run down the whole roster

Every player here was either drafted or brought in as a rookie free agent and is currently on the active roster

QB - Romo, Matt Baker

HB - Jones, Barber, Tyson Thompson

FB - Lousaka Polite, Oliver Hoyte

WR- Sam Hurd, Patrick Crayton, Miles Austin

TE - Witten, Fasano (only TE's on the active roster)

OL - Adams, Gurode, Johnson, Proctor, McQuistan

DE - Spears, Canty, Ratliff, Hatcher

DT - Montavious Stanley

LB - Ware, James, Carpenter, Ellis, Fowler, Burnett, Glymph

DB - Williams, Newman, Watkins, Davis, N.Jones, Reeves, A.Elam

Specialist - Mat McBriar

That's 37 out of a possible 53.

And every one of them, sans Nate Jones, Stanley, Glymph, McQuistan, Proctor and Elam has contributed in some way, shape or form to the team's success this season.
(3 OL, TE, QB, RB (now), 2 DL, 1 and 1/2 LB, 2 DB)

The numbers you offer pale in comparison. What the hell is 1 and 1/2 LB?

I'll say it again, the correct way to build a team is through solid drafting while adding a couple pieces in free agency as need be.

The Redskins do it bass ackwards, and when it looked like they might have finally understood that last year, they go on another spree this year.

As far as Jerry Jones blowing money on players in the past, is it any coincidence that shortly after we were giving away first round picks for overrated players that we were constantly finishing 5-11? That all changed the day Parcells was brought in and Jones has finally seen the light; that the only way you can build a foundation is through the draft.

The Cowboys have drafted solidly for the past four years. Parcells hasn't brought in any first round busts, and he's brought in plenty of talent in the late rounds, a al Canty, Crayton, Watkins, Hatcher, and others.

UDFA's speak for themselves, especially in the case of Romo.

So next time, don't presume to tell me what I said and what I didn't say.
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Postby JPM36 » Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:45 am

Dude, we don't care what you have to say.

Go talk to the 2-3 people on CowboysGuide....


oh, excuse me, since they are winning lately it's probably more like 5-6....
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Postby Irn-Bru » Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:31 pm

Primetime42 wrote:And every one of them, sans Nate Jones, Stanley, Glymph, McQuistan, Proctor and Elam has contributed in some way, shape or form to the team's success this season.

I'll say it again, the correct way to build a team is through solid drafting while adding a couple pieces in free agency as need be.

The Redskins do it bass ackwards, and when it looked like they might have finally understood that last year, they go on another spree this year.



Wow. Then I suppose that Gibbs won three "bass ackwards" Superbowls, as well as lead a 10-6 team, with a sweep of Dallas, to the playoffs last year. His philosophy on personnel has been fairly consistent throughout his career in the NFL.

Okay, so it looks like you're winning this great 'debate' this year. It didn't look so good for you last year, and it may not again next year. Until the Cowboys win a Superbowl (and they can start with a playoff win this year--for the first time in a decade--if they'd like), I don't know how authoritative your "I'll say it again, the correct way . . . " really is. Heck, given your history I would say keep approaching things "the correct way", and us Skins fans will be better off for it.

If you look at the Redskins free agent moves before this season, we had as good of a record as your draft card, if not better. This season our problems have been deep, but one of them happens to be a few bad personnel moves. . .and now we hear that the Skins have it completely backwards. I think things are closer to being on track than you're willing to give credit for.
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Postby forskins » Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:08 pm

Irn-Bru wrote:
Wow. Then I suppose that Gibbs won three "bass ackwards" Superbowls, as well as lead a 10-6 team, with a sweep of Dallas, to the playoffs last year. His philosophy on personnel has been fairly consistent throughout his career in the NFL.


All of those Superbowls were before Free Agency, so one could go on spending spree with Free Agents and not think twice about it. That same philosophy won't bring long term success in today's game when Free agents are paid tons more then drafted rookies.

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Postby Irn-Bru » Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:22 pm

forskins wrote:
Irn-Bru wrote:
Wow. Then I suppose that Gibbs won three "bass ackwards" Superbowls, as well as lead a 10-6 team, with a sweep of Dallas, to the playoffs last year. His philosophy on personnel has been fairly consistent throughout his career in the NFL.


All of those Superbowls were before Free Agency, so one could go on spending spree with Free Agents and not think twice about it. That same philosophy won't bring long term success in today's game when Free agents are paid tons more then drafted rookies.



Again, we'll see. The Redskins haven't made as many "high profile" free agent moves in recent years, which is the shift that we're seeing from the early Snyder era. Again, this year was a down year, so I'm not defending our moves, but if you look at the free agents acquired in Gibbs' first two seasons we didn't go for the biggest names out there. . .with the one exception being Clinton Portis--and he's been a great addition, as it turns out.

Marcus Washington, Shawn Springs, Phillip Daniels, Griffin, Rabach, Thomas, Sellers, Moss. . .none of these were the biggest names out there, yet all have contributed as much as Cooley, Jansen, Taylor, Rogers, Marshall, and our other draft picks have.

The key is to pick up FA's without the damage to the salary cap, which has clearly been the Skins strategy in the past few years. And, like I said, we'll see what works and what doesn't. The Cowboys look like the stronger team this year but were swept by the Skins last year. . .and you never know what next year will bring.
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Postby Deadskins » Mon Nov 27, 2006 2:19 pm

Irn-Bru wrote:
forskins wrote:
Irn-Bru wrote:
Wow. Then I suppose that Gibbs won three "bass ackwards" Superbowls, as well as lead a 10-6 team, with a sweep of Dallas, to the playoffs last year. His philosophy on personnel has been fairly consistent throughout his career in the NFL.


All of those Superbowls were before Free Agency, so one could go on spending spree with Free Agents and not think twice about it. That same philosophy won't bring long term success in today's game when Free agents are paid tons more then drafted rookies.



Again, we'll see. The Redskins haven't made as many "high profile" free agent moves in recent years, which is the shift that we're seeing from the early Snyder era. Again, this year was a down year, so I'm not defending our moves, but if you look at the free agents acquired in Gibbs' first two seasons we didn't go for the biggest names out there. . .with the one exception being Clinton Portis--and he's been a great addition, as it turns out.

Marcus Washington, Shawn Springs, Phillip Daniels, Griffin, Rabach, Thomas, Sellers, Moss. . .none of these were the biggest names out there, yet all have contributed as much as Cooley, Jansen, Taylor, Rogers, Marshall, and our other draft picks have.

The key is to pick up FA's without the damage to the salary cap, which has clearly been the Skins strategy in the past few years. And, like I said, we'll see what works and what doesn't. The Cowboys look like the stronger team this year but were swept by the Skins last year. . .and you never know what next year will bring.

Actually, those SBs were not before free agency, just free agency as we know it now. We got Wilbur Marshall in free agency from Da Bears. Also Portis was aquired via trade, not free agency. Same with Moss. But hey, why throw logic and reality into a 'Pie fan's delusions. :lol:
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Postby gibbsfan » Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:41 pm

Skins2daGrave wrote:haha, i guess everyone would rather see them miss the post season


yepper and that inludes me too :lol: .

i simply hate the cowboys...period..
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Postby Primetime42 » Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:09 pm

JSPB22 wrote:
Irn-Bru wrote:
forskins wrote:
Irn-Bru wrote:
Wow. Then I suppose that Gibbs won three "bass ackwards" Superbowls, as well as lead a 10-6 team, with a sweep of Dallas, to the playoffs last year. His philosophy on personnel has been fairly consistent throughout his career in the NFL.


All of those Superbowls were before Free Agency, so one could go on spending spree with Free Agents and not think twice about it. That same philosophy won't bring long term success in today's game when Free agents are paid tons more then drafted rookies.



Again, we'll see. The Redskins haven't made as many "high profile" free agent moves in recent years, which is the shift that we're seeing from the early Snyder era. Again, this year was a down year, so I'm not defending our moves, but if you look at the free agents acquired in Gibbs' first two seasons we didn't go for the biggest names out there. . .with the one exception being Clinton Portis--and he's been a great addition, as it turns out.

Marcus Washington, Shawn Springs, Phillip Daniels, Griffin, Rabach, Thomas, Sellers, Moss. . .none of these were the biggest names out there, yet all have contributed as much as Cooley, Jansen, Taylor, Rogers, Marshall, and our other draft picks have.

The key is to pick up FA's without the damage to the salary cap, which has clearly been the Skins strategy in the past few years. And, like I said, we'll see what works and what doesn't. The Cowboys look like the stronger team this year but were swept by the Skins last year. . .and you never know what next year will bring.

Actually, those SBs were not before free agency, just free agency as we know it now. We got Wilbur Marshall in free agency from Da Bears. Also Portis was aquired via trade, not free agency. Same with Moss. But hey, why throw logic and reality into a 'Pie fan's delusions. :lol:
As I recall, draft picks and new contracts were involved.

Selective memory is a great thing, isn't it?
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