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GSPODS
Hog
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 4983
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| RedskinsFreak wrote: | A very law/technical question here:
Doesn't 'murder' involve some level of premeditation ... which wouldn't so much be the case if they went into what they thought would be an unoccupied house?
Don't get me wrong, these individuals deserve every last thing coming to them .... I'm just trying to understand what does and doesn't constitute murder, as opposed to manslaughter, etc. |
Murder can be either pre-meditated or not. Pre-meditated murder is referred to as a class 1 felony and carries a maximum sentence of death. non-premeditated murder is referred to as second degree murder and carries a maximum sentence of life imprisonment without parole. If you enter a home by breaking and entering with the intention of burglary while carrying a deadly weapon, that probably meets the burden of proof for pre-meditation. If you did not expect anyone to be home, as the defendants claimed, why the need for a deadly weapon?
Manslaughter is more of an accidental murder which means the defendant knew there was an inherent risk of injury or death but did not intentionally cause the death, such as a car accident cause by driving while intoxicated.
Last edited by GSPODS on Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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RedskinsFreak
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Joined: 03 Jul 2003
Posts: 2953
Location: Lanham, MD
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks.
By the way, the AP just moved a 'bulletin kill.'
The arrestees have NOT yet been charged with murder. |
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Montana Redskin
Hog
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 311
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| check out miami herald, better coverage, picture of dude arrested....whats negligent homicide then? |
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GSPODS
Hog
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 4983
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| RedskinsFreak wrote: | Thanks.
By the way, the AP just moved a 'bulletin kill.'
The arrestees have NOT yet been charged with murder. |
The AP must be confused because Miami-Dade police said the defendants have been arrested and charged. I'll take the word of the police spokesperson over the AP wire. |
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jmooney
Hog
Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Posts: 439
Location: Hagerstown ,Md.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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| If they believed the house to be empty, why take a gun? It sounds more like " If there is someone in there, Im gonna shoot them" Thats pre-meditataed enough for me. Furthrmore, why kick in the bedroom door? why not simply open it? again, sounds pre-meditated. The intruder in this situation was being the aggressor, which IMO would constitute murder. But hey Im not a lawyer, what do I know |
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spudstr04
spudstr04
Joined: 26 Oct 2004
Posts: 4023
Location: NC
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3135855
| Quote: | Four arrested in connection to Taylor's death
ESPN.com news services
Updated: November 30, 2007, 8:55 PM ET
MIAMI -- The Miami-Dade Police Department has arrested four people in connection with the fatal shooting of Washington Redskins star safety Sean Taylor.
Miami-Dade police department spokeswoman Linda O'Brien identified the men as: Venjah K. Hunte, 20; Eric Rivera Jr., 17; Jason Scott Mitchell, 17; and Charles Kendrick Lee Wardlow, 18.
Taylor died Tuesday, one day after being shot at his home in an affluent Miami suburb during what officials said appeared to be an attempted burglary. The suspects weren't expecting Taylor to be home, police director Robert Parker said, but Taylor was recuperating from a knee injury and had returned to Miami from Washington.
"They were certainly not looking to go there and kill anyone," Miami-Dade police director Robert Parker said. He added authorities had more than one confession but would not elaborate.
"We're looking into whether or not one or more of the individuals had been at the residence before," Parker said.
The Miami Herald reported investigators believe the men learned of Taylor's house through someone who unwittingly set up the burglary by bragging about Taylor's wealth.
Taylor and his longtime girlfriend, Jackie Garcia, were awakened early Monday by loud noises at Taylor's home, family friend Richard Sharpstein said. Taylor grabbed a machete he kept in the bedroom for protection, Sharpstein said, then someone broke through the bedroom door and fired two shots, one missing and one hitting Taylor in the upper leg. Neither the couple's 18-month-old daughter, also named Jackie, nor Garcia were injured.
The bullet damaged the femoral artery in Taylor's leg, causing significant blood loss. Taylor never regained consciousness and died a little more than 24 hours later.
Jackie Garcia has declined to speak to the media, but her uncle, actor Andy Garcia, commended Taylor.
''His heroic action on that tragic night saved their life and is a testament to his humanity and courage,'' Garcia said in his statement obtained by the Herald. "His spirit will live forever, in our hearts and through the legacy of his achievements and the family he leaves behind."
A public viewing for Taylor is scheduled Sunday in Miami, and the entire Redskins organization plans to fly to Florida to attend Monday's funeral at Pharmed Arena at Florida International University.
The Redskins also announced that fans attending the team's Sunday game will receive a towel with Taylor's No.21 jersey on it and that his name will be displayed prominently in one of the end zones. Team owner Dan Snyder said in a statement the team will contribute a minimum of $500,000 to a fund to benefit Taylor's daughter. |
Thank God that the police found these guys. I really thought it would be months before they'd find anything. Also, I had no idea his girlfriend was Andy Garcia's neice. That was a nice complement that he gave Sean. If you are going to game on Sunday, please take pictures and post them on here. I would love to see them and see the tribute, because I don't know if the game will be shown on tv down here in NC. |
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GSPODS
Hog
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 4983
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| jmooney wrote: | | If they believed the house to be empty, why take a gun? It sounds more like " If there is someone in there, Im gonna shoot them" Thats pre-meditataed enough for me. Furthrmore, why kick in the bedroom door? why not simply open it? again, sounds pre-meditated. The intruder in this situation was being the aggressor, which IMO would constitute murder. But hey Im not a lawyer, what do I know |
You know as much as the 12 people who will constitute the jury.
You don't have to be a lawyer to have an opinion on pre-meditation.
You only have to be a lawyer, actually a prosecutor, to ask for a charge of pre-meditated murder and a lesser included charge of second degree murder.
I don't even think the prosecution will waste their time with the trespassing, breaking and entering, burglary, property damage and other lesser included charges.
Apparently the Miami-Dade police just announced they have two confessions. The report did not say from which two defendants. |
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DEHog Jr.
newbie
Joined: 29 Jan 2004
Posts: 15
Location: Magnolia,Delaware
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| its a complete shame that these young kids would do such a thing. I hope they have th right guys and justice is served |
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RedskinsFreak
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Joined: 03 Jul 2003
Posts: 2953
Location: Lanham, MD
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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Here's the significant line in the AP revision, quoting spokeswoman Linda O'Brien:
| Quote: | | O'Brien said the charges for each had not yet been determined, but "we are talking murder and burglary." |
Seems like nothing more than a technicality of timing right now. |
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GSPODS
Hog
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 4983
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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The suspects weren't expecting Taylor to be home, police director Robert Parker said, but Taylor was recuperating from a knee injury and had returned to Miami from Washington.
"They were certainly not looking to go there and kill anyone," Parker said. He added authorities had more than one confession but would not elaborate.
The police need to learn when to shut up. This is not the media statement to make if the D.A. wants to pursue pre-meditated murder charges. |
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NikiH
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Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 4476
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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| There have been confessions so I'm positive they have the right guys. I am also positive that you don't enter a residence that you believe to be unoccupied with a loaded weapon, ready to fire. You also don't bust down a closed door, you just open it. And if you hear someone in the residence you intend to rob, you leave. This seem sketchy to me and I am assuming that it might come out that there was another motive besides burglary. |
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hailskins666
aka Evil Hog
Joined: 07 Aug 2003
Posts: 6700
Location: South of Heaven, trying to hit a toilet on shrooms
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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kids?
wasn't the door 'kicked' in?
what type of kid kicks a door in, instead of running? |
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GSPODS
Hog
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 4983
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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Nobody here thinks a defendant would lie to avoid the death penalty? Anything to avoid looking like a pre-meditated murderer. Life in prison is better than Old Sparky or the needle.
The burden of proof of pre-meditation is on the prosecution.
The prosecutor in this case should have no trouble convincing a jury of pre-meditation for the reasons we have stated. |
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NikiH
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Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 4476
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| I wouldn't consider 20 a kid really, capable of kicking in a door. I think they had a different idea though. They've reported nothing was taken. If the motive wasn't murder, wouldn't they have removed a vehicle, a piece of jewelry??? I saw a nice white SUV in the driveway and it never moved. |
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GSPODS
Hog
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 4983
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| NikiH wrote: | | I wouldn't consider 20 a kid really, capable of kicking in a door. I think they had a different idea though. They've reported nothing was taken. If the motive wasn't murder, wouldn't they have removed a vehicle, a piece of jewelry??? I saw a nice white SUV in the driveway and it never moved. |
There was also a $120,000 Burgundy Jaguar.
According to the police report no personal property was taken.
That should eliminate burglary as a motive.
(That is IF we are getting all of the information) |
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