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RedskinsFreak
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Joined: 03 Jul 2003
Posts: 2953
Location: Lanham, MD
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chiefhog44
**ch44
Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 2300
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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| huh??? |
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Jake
Junior Hog
Joined: 05 Aug 2003
Posts: 11283
Location: Mayo, Maryland
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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I thought they all confessed??? |
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GSPODS
Hog
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 4983
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Courts usually don't accept a plea of "Guilty As Charged" on a count of 1st Degree Felony Murder when the death penalty applies. Courts seem to take great pains to ensure defendants in 1st degree murder trials do not and cannot voluntarily waive their rights. And no criminal defense attorney would ever advise a client to plead guilty to a 1st degree murder charge for reasons of legal ethics, if not for other reasons. |
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JansenFan
and Jackson
Joined: 20 Aug 2003
Posts: 8909
Location: Charles Town, WV
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:26 am Post subject: |
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Moved for obvious reasons.
That being said, I think that the trigger man should be charged with premeditated murder. He may not have planned it before the break-in, but it was reported that the four men heard a noise in the bedroom. Three wanted to leave, but the fourth talked them into staying. It was him that kicked in the door and started shooting. He obviously planned it from the moment he heard the noise, which in my book, makes it premeditated. |
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TincoSkin
Hog
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 1674
Location: I'm a Masshole
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:37 am Post subject: |
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| JansenFan wrote: | Moved for obvious reasons.
That being said, I think that the trigger man should be charged with premeditated murder. He may not have planned it before the break-in, but it was reported that the four men heard a noise in the bedroom. Three wanted to leave, but the fourth talked them into staying. It was him that kicked in the door and started shooting. He obviously planned it from the moment he heard the noise, which in my book, makes it premeditated. |
i disagree... i think they should be charged with what they have the largest chance of being convicted of. ie if they dont get premed im ok with it as long as they never see the light of day again |
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JansenFan
and Jackson
Joined: 20 Aug 2003
Posts: 8909
Location: Charles Town, WV
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:00 am Post subject: |
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| It's my understanding (admittedly from watching just about every law and order episode ever recorded) that you can be indicted on multiple charges (i.e. murder 1 and murder 2) and be found guilty of a lessor charge. I'm sure some one like Justice Hog can set me straight one way or the other. |
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Steve Spurrier III
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Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 2167
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:52 am Post subject: |
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| I know I'd be entering a plea of not guilty. A good argument can be made, especially for the three kids who didn't pull the trigger, that the crime they committed is not murder one. Confessing to the crime and accepting whatever charges the prosecutor decides upon are two different things. |
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GSPODS
Hog
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 4983
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:02 am Post subject: |
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| JansenFan wrote: | | It's my understanding (admittedly from watching just about every law and order episode ever recorded) that you can be indicted on multiple charges (i.e. murder 1 and murder 2) and be found guilty of a lessor charge. I'm sure some one like Justice Hog can set me straight one way or the other. |
The prosecutor does have the option of mutiple charges. The prosecutor could charge 1st degree felony murder, however, if he or she does not feel the evidence fully supports the charge of 1st degree felony murder, a lesser included charge of 2nd degree murder could be added.
Prosecutors will usually file the highest charge possible and add a lesser included charge only if the evidence does not support the highest charge.
In this case, I would find it hard, if not impossible to believe the evidence is insufficient to support 1st degree felony murder.
Premeditation is not required for the death penalty in Florida. Florida statutes specifically allow 1st degree felony murder charges for murder committed while in the perpetration of another violent felony, i.e. robbery or burglary. This case meets and exceeds that litmus test.
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Assasin atm
piggie
Joined: 06 Dec 2007
Posts: 170
Location: Virginia
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:46 am Post subject: |
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| Based on all the confessions and every thing else that has gone on it shouldnt be too hard to put all of them away for a long time on whatever charges are filed, right? |
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Redskin in Canada
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Joined: 08 Apr 2004
Posts: 10278
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| GSPODS wrote: | | Premeditation is not required for the death penalty in Florida. Florida statutes specifically allow 1st degree felony murder charges for murder committed while in the perpetration of another violent felony, i.e. robbery or burglary. This case meets and exceeds that litmus test. |
End of story.
This case is going to be tried under Florida State laws. I was going to make a similar post.
They are going to be convicted without any doubt, all of them. Maybe they will be charged with different sentences but somebody is going down (and I do not mean down under but three feet down). |
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roybus14
Hog
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 1117
Location: Maryland
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:30 am Post subject: |
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The United States needs to revert back to Medival Style of Justice. Public hangings, the guilltine(sp), chopping off hands and feet, etc. Criminals these days get off to easy with b.s. and when they do go to jail, they are basically pampered at our expense.
The death penalty, IMO, is a joke. You can be sentenced to death and it could take up to 10 years before you are put to death. If you are thoroughly found (dna tests, etc.) guilty of murder and sentenced to death, then your butt should be put to death the next day after your sentencing. No death row no nothing. Straight to the chair or needle.
We in this country give criminals too much leeway and our justice system is not strong enough to really discourage people from doing crimes. You revert back to Medival or barbaric forms of justice with no hesitation and watch how fast the crime rate drops. If these butt-holes know that if they get caught, they face in-humane consequences, they will definitely think twice about committing crimes.... |
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GSPODS
Hog
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 4983
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:20 am Post subject: |
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| roybus14 wrote: | The United States needs to revert back to Medival Style of Justice. Public hangings, the guilltine(sp), chopping off hands and feet, etc. Criminals these days get off to easy with b.s. and when they do go to jail, they are basically pampered at our expense.
The death penalty, IMO, is a joke. You can be sentenced to death and it could take up to 10 years before you are put to death. If you are thoroughly found (dna tests, etc.) guilty of murder and sentenced to death, then your butt should be put to death the next day after your sentencing. No death row no nothing. Straight to the chair or needle.
We in this country give criminals too much leeway and our justice system is not strong enough to really discourage people from doing crimes. You revert back to Medival or barbaric forms of justice with no hesitation and watch how fast the crime rate drops. If these butt-holes know that if they get caught, they face in-humane consequences, they will definitely think twice about committing crimes.... |
Slightly off-topic, however, your suggestion asserts that no one found guilty by 12 ignorant people called a "jury" could possibly be innocent. The reason for the appeals system, and for the abolishment of the death penalty altogether in some states (see New Jersey) is that the law proceeds under the premise "Better to free 1000 guilty men than to execute one innocent man."
Despite the rhetoric of the political pundits, we have both fact and knowledge of having executed innocent individuals innumerate times. If such fact and knowledge did not exist, things would probably be as you suggest.
While I agree on principle that the burden of debt should not be over-extended to "The People", particularly by way of plea bargain to a lesser charge (see Gary Ridgway a.k.a. "The Green River Killer"), I would also like to think that no one can be executed based solely upon circumstantial or circumspect evidence, nor upon suspect testimony from less than credible witnessess, especially those looking to reduce their own sentences.
For The Record, I have been practicing law for over 30 years. From my personal experience, "Closure" and "Justice" are abstract words of legal and political propaganda for the families of the victims. Nothing more. There is never closure in losing a loved one and actual justice would entail bringing back the victim and executing only the truly guilty. The only semblance of closure or justice found in a courtroom is in the case of a wrongly accused defendant receiving a proper acquittal. Even then, the defendant's life is almost always ruined simply by the charge itself.
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Redskin in Canada
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Joined: 08 Apr 2004
Posts: 10278
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| roybus14 wrote: | | The United States needs to revert back to Medival Style of Justice. Public hangings, the guilltine(sp), chopping off hands and feet, etc. Criminals these days get off to easy with b.s. and when they do go to jail, they are basically pampered at our expense. |
And they relish in the "pleasures" of inmate companionship with big Bubba ... 
Trust me brother, life for ten years in a prison while on death row to be executed is one of the worst forms of physical and psychological torture that any system can infringe on any criminal. It is actually worse that prompt execution.
You want revenge and that is a common first reaction for all of us too. Maybe we should aim for justice instead. But I am going to make it difficult for you and all of us:
I would not be surprised if there is FORGIVENESS, perhaps not on legal grounds but on moral grounds, from the family towards the accused and soon to be convicted criminals. That is how a high road individual is his father.
Last edited by Redskin in Canada on Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:55 am; edited 1 time in total |
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redskinsrock
piglet
Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 21
Location: Deltona, Fl
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:53 am Post subject: |
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The suspect who pulled the trigger should DIE!!!!!!!Sad thing is even if he gets the death penalty, Seans daughter will have graduated college before it happens.
The other lowlifes, dirt bag, scum sucking, THUGS should be put away for life withut the possability for paroll.
I believe this farce of a plea will just tie up the courts, waste tax dollars, and bring more pain to Seans family. They ALL confessed to the crime. They pointed fingers at each other. They did it, deliberatly or not, they took a mans life because they could. They were to LAZY to pull themselves out of a bad situation, so they killed a man. Thay did not care about his Mom, Dad, fiance, or daughter. They only saw a target. "He has so much, he don't need all that, he won't miss that", and because they had no moral compass, lacked any ethical standards, and were never taught any meaningfull values, a good father, future loving husband, and a Hall Of Fame football player was taken way before his time.
For years to come, when I see a Skins game and ST is not there I will be saddened and ANGRY!
The fan in me hurts...the American in me wants justice...the 20 year army vet wants to take them out behind the woodshed and put a bullet in there heads.Their glad I'm not in charge.
Hail Victory
R I P #21 |
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