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| Which do you think are the key positions we need? |
| OG |
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11% |
[ 4 ] |
| DT |
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8% |
[ 3 ] |
| CB |
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8% |
[ 3 ] |
| S |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| WR |
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23% |
[ 8 ] |
| DE |
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44% |
[ 15 ] |
| OT |
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2% |
[ 1 ] |
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| Total Votes : 34 |
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SkinsFreak
Fire in the Sky
Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 4884
Location: Surfside
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| GSPODS wrote: | | Knowing "The Danny" as Redskins fans do, if wide receiver was the primary concern of the Redskins they would have already traded away the farm for a proven big name wide receiver. |
 Whatever, I don't agree with that at all. The first and only free agent brought to Redskins park and offered a contract was a receiver. That tells me they want to beef up that position. It's not rocket science to understand that a large group of solid receivers are needed in the WCO. ESPN is not doing hardly any draft analysis, and since your mansion is located in the Sherwood Forrest and you can't get satellite, (yeah right, btw) you're missing a lot of good analysis and breakdown of other players like Thomas or Hardy. But whatever, I'll be talking about receivers in the other thread. |
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GSPODS
Hog
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 4983
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| SkinsFreak wrote: | | GSPODS wrote: | | Knowing "The Danny" as Redskins fans do, if wide receiver was the primary concern of the Redskins they would have already traded away the farm for a proven big name wide receiver. |
Whatever, I don't agree with that at all. The first and only free agent brought to Redskins park and offered a contract was a receiver. That tells me they want to beef up that position. It's not rocket science to understand that a large group of solid receivers are needed in the WCO. ESPN is not doing hardly any draft analysis, and since your mansion is located in the Sherwood Forrest and you can't get satellite, (yeah right, btw) you're missing a lot of good analysis and breakdown of other players like Thomas or Hardy. But whatever, I'll be talking about receivers in the other thread. |
It tells me the Redskins were trying to get off cheap. If anyone thinks D.J. Hackett is an every down #2 receiver, or some form of upgrade of the receiving corps, those who think so would be dumber than dirt. If Hackett was a commodity, he would have more teams looking at him. That is, if Seattle's West Coast Offense, the same one Zorn intends to use, didn't need or want Hackett enough to make an offer, why would anyone think he would be the answer to the Redskins receiving issues? Furthermore, the Redskins made him an offer he could, and did, walk away from. If they really wanted him, they had the resources to outbid the competition.
If you disagree, you're entitled. But offer up something more than D.J. Hackett as proof the Redskins are seriously trying to obtain a #2 wide receiver. |
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SkinsFreak
Fire in the Sky
Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 4884
Location: Surfside
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | If you disagree, you're entitled. But offer up something more than D.J. Hackett as proof the Redskins are seriously trying to obtain a #2 wide receiver. |
I already did. Both Zorn and Cerrato have mentioned it several times. But nevertheless, offering the only free agent contract to a receiver is proof enough, other than re-signing our own players, of course.
Will they actually draft one or buy a free agent? Who knows? But most agree the Skins need another receiver. No one is saying Hackett is the next coming, but he does garner some value for this organization. We've already discussed this. He knows Zorn and the system, and that alone, is worth something. So the Skins aren't going to throw the bank at him, sounds like they know what they're doing in this case. I'd rather draft one then get Hackett anyway. |
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yupchagee
#14
Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 4113
Location: Louisville KY
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| GSPODS wrote: | Needs By Position:
Center: Rabach / Kendall (OK)
Guard: Thomas / Kendall / ? (Need 2)
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I generally lump C/G together as interior linemen. The only possible young backup is Alexander if he switchesd to OL full time. We need young players to groom. Probably a 1st day pick here.
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Tackle: Samuels / Jansen / Heyer / Alexander (OK) |
Alexander will play G if he switches to OL. Wade & Fabini are also OT backups.
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Tight End: Cooley / ? (Need 1) |
Yoder is an OK backup as a blocker. We need a backup TE who can catch the ball. Maybe Ecker???
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Quarterback: Campbell / Collins / Hollenbach (OK) |
We will probably look for some competition as #3 QB, probably as a late pick or UDFA.
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Running Back: Portis / Betts / Cartwright (OK) |
Wide Receiver: Moss / Randle El / Thrash / Mix / McMullen / ? (OK)[/quote]
You are in a definite minority here. We need a #2 WR & will in all likelyhood draft 1 in the 1st 2 rounds.
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Defensive Tackle: Griffin / Golston / Montgomery / Boschetti / Alexander? (OK)
Defensive End: Daniels / Carter / Evans / Wilson (OK) |
We need a 2nd good pass rusher to complement Carter. Will draft 1 in the 1st 2 rounds.
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Middle Linebacker: Fletcher / ? (Need 1)
Outside Linebacker: McIntosh / Washington / Blades / Campbell / Sinclair (OK) |
Blades is a MLB. We need a young understudy at SLB behind Washington. Maybe Sinclair, Wallace or Verdun-Wheeler will be that player, maybe not. We will probably take 1 in the mid-late rounds.
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Strong Safety: Doughty / Fox? (Need 1)
Free Safety: Landry / Fox
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Fox is our only backup S. We need depth here. Will probably sign some street FA's & draft 1 late.
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Cornerback: Springs / Smoot / Rogers / Torrence / Westbrook? (OK)
Kicker: Suisham
Punter: ? (Need 1)
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We will probably resign Frost & still invite 1 or more street FA's &/or UDFA's to compete.
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Offensive Guard, Safety and Punter appear to be the critical needs. Defensive End, Wide Receiver and Cornerback appear to be the critical Wants.
Jim Zorn has publicly stated he is happy with the Redskins wide receivers. Does this mean we will see Mix and McMullen this season? Does it mean Zorn thinks the team has more pressing needs? Does it mean The Danny finally refuses to overpay for mediocrity? (See Hackett, D.J.) Most every fan seems to think wide receiver is a pressing need. It doesn't look as though the Redskins think so.
Were I playing GM, I'd be thinking offensive guard, safety, middle linebacker. Offensive linemen are usually a safe draft choice. Safeties are hit or miss but the Redskins have been either good or lucky or both at drafting safeties recently. Everyone seems to think Dan Connor is a good bet for linebacker.
In a perfect world, the Redskins would draft Kenny Phillips, Dan Connor, and Branden Albert.
One Mock Draft has the Redskins drafting Malcolm Kelly at #21 (Limas Sweed being drafted by Buffalo at #11) and Tracy Porter being drafted by the Redskins at # 51. I don't see this mock draft as addressing team needs. |
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GSPODS
Hog
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 4983
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| SkinsFreak wrote: | | Quote: | | If you disagree, you're entitled. But offer up something more than D.J. Hackett as proof the Redskins are seriously trying to obtain a #2 wide receiver. |
I already did. Both Zorn and Cerrato have mentioned it several times. But nevertheless, offering the only free agent contract to a receiver is proof enough, other than re-signing our own players, of course.
Will they actually draft one or buy a free agent? Who knows? But most agree the Skins need another receiver. No one is saying Hackett is the next coming, but he does garner some value for this organization. We've already discussed this. He knows Zorn and the system, and that alone, is worth something. So the Skins aren't going to throw the bank at him, sounds like they know what they're doing in this case. I'd rather draft one then get Hackett anyway. |
I digress to my previous post. There is no guarantee that any of the wide receivers that meet the Redskins needs will be available at #21, nor is there any guarantee that any drafted receiver can simply be plugged into the #2 receiver position with any results. The Redskins could get the next Art Monk. They could get the next Brandon Lloyd. They could miss out on wide receivers altogether. If a #2 receiver is a priority, this is a poor strategy. |
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yupchagee
#14
Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 4113
Location: Louisville KY
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| GSPODS wrote: | | SkinsFreak wrote: | | Quote: | | If you disagree, you're entitled. But offer up something more than D.J. Hackett as proof the Redskins are seriously trying to obtain a #2 wide receiver. |
I already did. Both Zorn and Cerrato have mentioned it several times. But nevertheless, offering the only free agent contract to a receiver is proof enough, other than re-signing our own players, of course.
Will they actually draft one or buy a free agent? Who knows? But most agree the Skins need another receiver. No one is saying Hackett is the next coming, but he does garner some value for this organization. We've already discussed this. He knows Zorn and the system, and that alone, is worth something. So the Skins aren't going to throw the bank at him, sounds like they know what they're doing in this case. I'd rather draft one then get Hackett anyway. |
I digress to my previous post. There is no guarantee that any of the wide receivers that meet the Redskins needs will be available at #21, nor is there any guarantee that any drafted receiver can simply be plugged into the #2 receiver position with any results. The Redskins could get the next Art Monk. They could get the next Brandon Lloyd. They could miss out on wide receivers altogether. If a #2 receiver is a priority, this is a poor strategy. |
What would be a good strategy? |
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GSPODS
Hog
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 4983
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| yupchagee wrote: | | GSPODS wrote: | | SkinsFreak wrote: | | Quote: | | If you disagree, you're entitled. But offer up something more than D.J. Hackett as proof the Redskins are seriously trying to obtain a #2 wide receiver. |
I already did. Both Zorn and Cerrato have mentioned it several times. But nevertheless, offering the only free agent contract to a receiver is proof enough, other than re-signing our own players, of course.
Will they actually draft one or buy a free agent? Who knows? But most agree the Skins need another receiver. No one is saying Hackett is the next coming, but he does garner some value for this organization. We've already discussed this. He knows Zorn and the system, and that alone, is worth something. So the Skins aren't going to throw the bank at him, sounds like they know what they're doing in this case. I'd rather draft one then get Hackett anyway. |
I digress to my previous post. There is no guarantee that any of the wide receivers that meet the Redskins needs will be available at #21, nor is there any guarantee that any drafted receiver can simply be plugged into the #2 receiver position with any results. The Redskins could get the next Art Monk. They could get the next Brandon Lloyd. They could miss out on wide receivers altogether. If a #2 receiver is a priority, this is a poor strategy. |
What would be a good strategy? |
To secure a proven # 1 wide receiver with size and hands regardless of the cost. Then you have two #1 receivers and Randle El in the slot. That's built for a passing offense. Add Cooley, Sellers, Portis and others and every offensive weapon is a receiving threat. This would be my strategy.
Then you have two #1 wide receivers |
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yupchagee
#14
Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 4113
Location: Louisville KY
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:46 am Post subject: |
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| GSPODS wrote: | | yupchagee wrote: | | GSPODS wrote: | | SkinsFreak wrote: | | Quote: | | If you disagree, you're entitled. But offer up something more than D.J. Hackett as proof the Redskins are seriously trying to obtain a #2 wide receiver. |
I already did. Both Zorn and Cerrato have mentioned it several times. But nevertheless, offering the only free agent contract to a receiver is proof enough, other than re-signing our own players, of course.
Will they actually draft one or buy a free agent? Who knows? But most agree the Skins need another receiver. No one is saying Hackett is the next coming, but he does garner some value for this organization. We've already discussed this. He knows Zorn and the system, and that alone, is worth something. So the Skins aren't going to throw the bank at him, sounds like they know what they're doing in this case. I'd rather draft one then get Hackett anyway. |
I digress to my previous post. There is no guarantee that any of the wide receivers that meet the Redskins needs will be available at #21, nor is there any guarantee that any drafted receiver can simply be plugged into the #2 receiver position with any results. The Redskins could get the next Art Monk. They could get the next Brandon Lloyd. They could miss out on wide receivers altogether. If a #2 receiver is a priority, this is a poor strategy. |
What would be a good strategy? |
To secure a proven # 1 wide receiver with size and hands regardless of the cost. Then you have two #1 receivers and Randle El in the slot. That's built for a passing offense. Add Cooley, Sellers, Portis and others and every offensive weapon is a receiving threat. This would be my strategy.
Then you have two #1 wide receivers |
Do you have anyone in mind? I know of no such receiver available. Would you trade our 1st rnd pick? 1st & 2nd? 1st, 2nd & 3rd? All our picks? Throw in some vets? Pay him $20 million/yr? |
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GSPODS
Hog
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 4983
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:39 am Post subject: |
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| yupchagee wrote: | | GSPODS wrote: | | yupchagee wrote: | | GSPODS wrote: | | SkinsFreak wrote: | | Quote: | | If you disagree, you're entitled. But offer up something more than D.J. Hackett as proof the Redskins are seriously trying to obtain a #2 wide receiver. |
I already did. Both Zorn and Cerrato have mentioned it several times. But nevertheless, offering the only free agent contract to a receiver is proof enough, other than re-signing our own players, of course.
Will they actually draft one or buy a free agent? Who knows? But most agree the Skins need another receiver. No one is saying Hackett is the next coming, but he does garner some value for this organization. We've already discussed this. He knows Zorn and the system, and that alone, is worth something. So the Skins aren't going to throw the bank at him, sounds like they know what they're doing in this case. I'd rather draft one then get Hackett anyway. |
I digress to my previous post. There is no guarantee that any of the wide receivers that meet the Redskins needs will be available at #21, nor is there any guarantee that any drafted receiver can simply be plugged into the #2 receiver position with any results. The Redskins could get the next Art Monk. They could get the next Brandon Lloyd. They could miss out on wide receivers altogether. If a #2 receiver is a priority, this is a poor strategy. |
What would be a good strategy? |
To secure a proven # 1 wide receiver with size and hands regardless of the cost. Then you have two #1 receivers and Randle El in the slot. That's built for a passing offense. Add Cooley, Sellers, Portis and others and every offensive weapon is a receiving threat. This would be my strategy.
Then you have two #1 wide receivers |
Do you have anyone in mind? I know of no such receiver available. Would you trade our 1st rnd pick? 1st & 2nd? 1st, 2nd & 3rd? All our picks? Throw in some vets? Pay him $20 million/yr? |
My point is, if the Redskins are serious about obtaining a capable wide recevier, they don't allow the few available in free agency to sign elsewhere without firing up Redskins One. Jerry Porter was available. Bernard Berrian was available. Ernest Wilford was available. But the Redskins, who everyone seems convinced are seriously looking for a wide receiver, only make an offer to D.J. Hackett and not even a good enough offer to keep him from leaving.
At this point in time, the Redskins needs to be (and maybe they are) making phone calls to other teams about trades. If you tie your own hands, as the Redskins have done, you pay whatever cost is necessary to untie them. So, your question is what do the Redskins pay? What would an Anquan Boldin or a Chad Johnson be worth to the Redskins right now? How about whatever it takes? For a price, almost everyone is available. Everyone seemed so thrilled when the Redskins did not sign every big name free agent 24 hours into free agency. I wasn't looking for every big name in free agency, only one better than decent wide receiver. Now, because they are desparate for another wide receiver, and every other team in the league knows it, the price for anyone remotely decent in a trade just went through the proverbial roof.
Here is my 'A List' of wide receivers and what I would pay for them:
Owens, Terrell, (34) 6'3". 81 Receptions, 85% for 1st Downs
Before anyone laughs, Owens caught more passes for more 1st downs, more yardage, and more touchdowns than any Redskins receiver.
Dallas would likely take Ladell Betts and a second round draft pick for Owens, who will be 35 this season. Owens is worth no more than a three year contract at this stage of his career. Negative: Owens has a huge Cap Number. (Over $10 Million)
Gage, Justin, (27) 6'4". 55 Receptions, 82% for 1st Downs
Gage is worth two draft picks, a second and a third, or a draft pick and a player trade. His numbers are less impressive but his size and his age are hard to overlook. Gage is also only making $1,004,080 for 2007.
Johnson, Chad (30) 6'1". 93 Receptions, 80% for 1st Downs
Before anyone laughs, Johnson caught more passes for more 1st downs, more yardage, and more touchdowns than any Redskins receiver.
Cincy wouldn't part with Johnson cheaply. His stats and the Redskins needs make him worth a first and a second round pick but his $7.6 Million Cap Number is a major detraction.
Johnson, Calvin (22) 6'4". 48 Receptions, 79% for First Downs The Lions need everything except wide receivers. Matt Millen, being who he is, would take a first round pick and draft yet another wide receiver for Johnson. Johnson's Cap Number is only $2.787 Million, and at only 22, and with size and decent hands, I would be trying everything to swing this deal.
Gage is the most realistic possibility while Calvin Johnson is the one I would most like to see happen. The bottom line is that the Redskins have to be looking at these scenarios and be ready to play "Let's Make A Deal" to fill their need at wide receiver. There is a good possibility that neither tall wide receivers nor high-prospect defensive linemen will still be on the board when the Redskins draft at #21. I also noticed that high-prospect offensive linemen are not plentiful in this draft. Realistically, there is less than a snowball's chance in hell of the Redskins filling all of the team's needs through the draft. They will be fortunate to fill any of their needs since nearly every team picking ahead of them has the same needs.
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SkinsJock
08 Champ
Joined: 24 Feb 2004
Posts: 11522
Location: New England
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:23 am Post subject: |
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| GSPODS wrote: | | ... My point is, if the Redskins are serious about obtaining a capable wide recevier .... |
IMO the team is serious about making the team better BUT not "at any cost" OR by doing things as they have done in the past.
I think the priority is not to focus on any one position per se but to look at who is available that will help the team AND at a reasonable cost financially and with regards to keeping our picks in this and future drafts.
We apparently are not going to be the pre-retirement stop for players past their ability to contribute any more 
There are apparently no free agents at positions of need that can be had without giving up too much for.
I do not think the "big" WR is as much of a priority as just another of the positions that we have to improve this off season. The team seems to have learned from their past mistakes and is going to be a lot more careful going forward. That, plus the fact that teams seem to realize now that paying for a "player" or 2 just is not paying the dividends it may have.
Teams are having a better chance of success with a bunch of good players than those teams with a couple of "stars" on offense and defense surrounded by other players who are not contributing.
This team is not far off the pace and spending a bunch of money on a "big" WR and a great defensive lineman is not a guarantee of success anymore - not that there were any "great" players available anyway
We have needs at a number of positions and we need to get younger - this to me is an indication that we will be better off at this time concentrating on keeping as many picks as we can.
I am still holding my breath that these guys might be showing us something this off-season. |
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GSPODS
Hog
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 4983
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:37 am Post subject: |
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The Simple Argument:
The Redskins are no longer paying for every high-priced free agent available.
The Redskins are no longer paying for any high-priced free agent available.
From one extreme to the other ...
Consistently good teams find a happy medium somewhere between spending everything and spending nothing.
I am in the minority, arguing that wide receiver is not an area the Redskins are all that concerned about addressing. I was asked to prove my position, against all of the media reports which state that the Mouthpiece, a.k.a. Vinny Cerrato, has stated that wide receiver is a priority. I have attempted, from several different vantage points, to prove that the Redskins are not taking actions to prove they are actually addressing the issue of wide receiver in free agency, despite the media reports and the quotes from "YesMan" Cerrato.
Since it was asked, I attempted to address the issue of "What would I do, if I were GM?" The answer is I would not do nothing. Indecision will get one killed. |
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SkinsJock
08 Champ
Joined: 24 Feb 2004
Posts: 11522
Location: New England
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:54 am Post subject: |
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By not spending money on players this year the Redskins are doing something. IMO that "something" is really quite important and might just indicate some signs of confidence in the players and coaches we have at present.
The Redskins FO are not making the same old mistake they have made in the past by just bringing in someone and then either over paying that player or finding out that the player did not make anyone around him any better, OR both!
We should not do something just for the sake of doing something. We are not as bad as some of these other teams and we do not need to make the same mistakes we used to.
Hopefully the scouts and talent evaluators are going to show that they might know what they are doing also in the next few months 
Nobody who knows anything about this team is paying any attention to whatever Cerrato implies we are doing - so anyone who addresses anything about anything that moron indicates is just wasting their time. |
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VetSkinsFan
One Step Away
Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 7779
Location: NoVA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm not stressing over the big WR as much as a capable WR. Yes, a big WR has obvious benefits (See TO and Randy Moss) but a wideout capable of starting and getting ARE in the slot is the key IMO, moreso than knee-jerk "big WR." I hope to see Mix out there giving it what he has for our big WR this year. If he doens't work out, then, "Thanks for the effort, cya!" What if he does, though. In the NFL, there are way too many variables to write someone off before you give them a chance... |
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CanesSkins26
Canes Skin
Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 6870
Location: Alexandria, VA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | There is a good possibility that neither tall wide receivers nor high-prospect defensive linemen will still be on the board when the Redskins draft at #21. |
I highly disagree with this. There are only going to be 20 players selected before we pick. It's almost a certainty that one of Sweed, Kelly, Thomas, Harvey, Merling, or Balmer will be available. I'd be happy when any of those players in the first round. |
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GSPODS
Hog
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 4983
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| CanesSkins26 wrote: | | Quote: | | There is a good possibility that neither tall wide receivers nor high-prospect defensive linemen will still be on the board when the Redskins draft at #21. |
I highly disagree with this. There are only going to be 20 players selected before we pick. It's almost a certainty that one of Sweed, Kelly, Thomas, Harvey, Merling, or Balmer will be available. I'd be happy when any of those players in the first round. |
I'd be happier if the Redskins traded, say three of their draft choices to a team with more needs and obtained another first round pick. The Redskins need three or four good prospects, not eleven lousy ones. And, no, I am not suggesting the Redskins trade away their first round draft pick. I am suggesting that the Redskins could use both Sweed and Merling, or both Kelly and Balmer, or both Thomas and Harvey.
However the draft shakes out, the Skins could use two of these players instead of 11 lower round draft choices. I'd rather have two of these players and five or six lower round draft choices. But I am not the actual GM. I just play one on a message board. So do most of the posters here. This simply confirms what we already knew, which is that even Redskins fans can't agree on how things should be done at Redskins Park. |
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