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SKINFAN
Hog
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 1672
Location: Sterling, Virginia
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| scared and learning, same effect. The giants got good production out of their rookies, but look who's throwing to them. Eli may not be great but he knows the system he's playing in. We have enough recievers in house. We need line personnel, both O and D. Personally, I like Mix over any of the WR's in the draft. He is big, he played with Jason in college, with a bit f work they can be successful. We have Reche "eyes, eyes baby" caldwell and Thrash, not to mention McCardell.. We need a roadblock or speedbump up front so Jason can go thru with his progression instead of running for his life. Does anyone know what JC ran on the 40 BTW? |
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CanesSkins26
Canes Skin
Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 6870
Location: Alexandria, VA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | We have enough recievers in house. |
No we don't. We ARE being moved to the slot, who is going to start alongside Moss? McCardell? Mix? We have depth questions on the oline and secondary, but we are in need of starters at wide receiver and on the defensive line. |
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andyjens89
Hog
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
Posts: 1894
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| SKINFAN wrote: | | Does anyone know what JC ran on the 40 BTW? |
| Quote: | | Agility tests: CAMPUS: 4.69 in the 40-yard dash. ... 285-pound bench press. ... 370-pound squat. ... 305-pound power clean. ... 35-inch vertical jump. ... 33 -inch arm length. ... 9 1/8-inch hands. ... Right-handed. ... 14/28 Wonderlic score. COMBINE: 4.72 seconds in 40-yard dash. ... 28 Wonderlic score. ... Did not participate in other workout drills. |
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/2005draft/Campbell,Jason-QB-Auburn.htm |
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SKINFAN
Hog
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 1672
Location: Sterling, Virginia
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| CanesSkins26 wrote: | | Quote: | | We have enough recievers in house. |
No we don't. We ARE being moved to the slot, who is going to start alongside Moss? McCardell? Mix? We have depth questions on the oline and secondary, but we are in need of starters at wide receiver and on the defensive line. |
I was hoping Thrash, Hot Thrash. Then slowly get Mix in there... Your right on the DL but they were fine last year, they can hold their own for 1 more year. Santana will get his groove back, I hope, and ARE will be perfect in the slot. We have Cooley to throw to, and Portis... I think we can do without a reciever this year, be we cannot do without a OL. We got away with what we had during the reg season but when we entered the playoffs, they exposed them guys, Todd Collins was running for his life in Seattle. The DL might need some shoring, but we have OL starters coming off of injuries, we need fresh blood there. |
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brad7686
B-rad
Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 2991
Location: De La War
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Hardy ran a 4.44 at the combine, showing even more how underrated he is. That is a 6-6 or 6-7 guy running a 4.44. If somehow he does in fact make it to our portion of the first round, they should jump it immediately. Will they? Probly not. |
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SkinsFreak
Fire in the Sky
Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 4884
Location: Surfside
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| brad7686 wrote: | | Hardy ran a 4.44 at the combine, showing even more how underrated he is. That is a 6-6 or 6-7 guy running a 4.44. If somehow he does in fact make it to our portion of the first round, they should jump it immediately. Will they? Probly not. |
Hardy did look pretty good and grabbed the attention of several analysts. To be honest, if we were going to grab a WR in the 1st, and if all or any of these guys were available, at this point, and it could change, I'd be torn between Hardy, Sweed and Kelly. All of them are outstanding and could make immediate contributions to our offense. |
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HEROHAMO
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Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Posts: 4027
Location: SANTA ANA,CA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| andyjens89 wrote: | | yupchagee wrote: | | andyjens89 wrote: | Andre Caldwell?
He ran a 4.37 and is 6'1" |
Looking for a brother act? |
Cousins, but yeah basically |
No they are brothers. |
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andyjens89
Hog
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
Posts: 1894
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| You're right, I could've swore they were cousins. I must've been thinking of someone else |
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CanesSkins26
Canes Skin
Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 6870
Location: Alexandria, VA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Your right on the DL but they were fine last year, they can hold their own for 1 more year. |
How did they hold their own? There was no consistent pressure from that unit. Carter was much improved, but despite his 10.5 sacks he did not provide consistent pressure the way elite defensive ends do. Montgomery was also solid, but didn't provide a consistent push up the middle. Griffin is injury prone and is nowhere near the player that he used to be. Golston is strictly a backup. Daniels is a black hole at the other end position when he isn't injured. Wilson was a nice surprise but needs a lot more work before he is anything other than a part-time player. Quarterbacks had all day to throw against these guys. Without blitzing we generate no pressure on the qb.
As for Thrash, one good game doesn't make you a starting caliber receiver. There's no guarantee that he is even back with the team next year. Mix has nice size, but he has 3 career NFL receptions and in his best season at Auburn he had 19 catches and 3 td's. He has shown nothing to indicate that he can contribute in the passing game, let alone start. Lloyd is most likely gone. McCardell is 38 years old and who knows if he will even play. Caldwell is decent, but other than one season with Tom Brady as his qb, he hasn't done very much and is probably nothing more than a #4 or #5 receiver. In a west coast offense like the one that Zorn wants to implement you need 3-4 receivers that you can count on to contribute because you will be running a lot of 3 and sometimes even 4 receiver sets. Right now a 4 receiver set for us would be Moss, Thrash, ARE, and Caldwell. That lineup isn't going to worry an opposing defense. We need an infusion of youth and talent into the wr unit and with the new offense it has to start this offseason or we are once again going to see a mediocre offense. |
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SkinsFreak
Fire in the Sky
Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 4884
Location: Surfside
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| CanesSkins26 wrote: | | Quote: | | Your right on the DL but they were fine last year, they can hold their own for 1 more year. |
How did they hold their own? There was no consistent pressure from that unit. Carter was much improved, but despite his 10.5 sacks he did not provide consistent pressure the way elite defensive ends do. Montgomery was also solid, but didn't provide a consistent push up the middle. Griffin is injury prone and is nowhere near the player that he used to be. Golston is strictly a backup. Daniels is a black hole at the other end position when he isn't injured. Wilson was a nice surprise but needs a lot more work before he is anything other than a part-time player. Quarterbacks had all day to throw against these guys. Without blitzing we generate no pressure on the qb.
As for Thrash, one good game doesn't make you a starting caliber receiver. There's no guarantee that he is even back with the team next year. Mix has nice size, but he has 3 career NFL receptions and in his best season at Auburn he had 19 catches and 3 td's. He has shown nothing to indicate that he can contribute in the passing game, let alone start. Lloyd is most likely gone. McCardell is 38 years old and who knows if he will even play. Caldwell is decent, but other than one season with Tom Brady as his qb, he hasn't done very much and is probably nothing more than a #4 or #5 receiver. In a west coast offense like the one that Zorn wants to implement you need 3-4 receivers that you can count on to contribute because you will be running a lot of 3 and sometimes even 4 receiver sets. Right now a 4 receiver set for us would be Moss, Thrash, ARE, and Caldwell. That lineup isn't going to worry an opposing defense. We need an infusion of youth and talent into the wr unit and with the new offense it has to start this offseason or we are once again going to see a mediocre offense. |
Okay, so who would you take in the 1st and 2nd rounds?
I'd take a WR in the 1st and a DE in the 2nd. I'd stick with the 21st pick, but I would 'consider' moving up into the late 1st round or the early 2nd round to get a quality DE. But I'd go in that order, WR then a DE. But that's just my opinion. |
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CanesSkins26
Canes Skin
Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 6870
Location: Alexandria, VA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| SkinsFreak wrote: | | CanesSkins26 wrote: | | Quote: | | Your right on the DL but they were fine last year, they can hold their own for 1 more year. |
How did they hold their own? There was no consistent pressure from that unit. Carter was much improved, but despite his 10.5 sacks he did not provide consistent pressure the way elite defensive ends do. Montgomery was also solid, but didn't provide a consistent push up the middle. Griffin is injury prone and is nowhere near the player that he used to be. Golston is strictly a backup. Daniels is a black hole at the other end position when he isn't injured. Wilson was a nice surprise but needs a lot more work before he is anything other than a part-time player. Quarterbacks had all day to throw against these guys. Without blitzing we generate no pressure on the qb.
As for Thrash, one good game doesn't make you a starting caliber receiver. There's no guarantee that he is even back with the team next year. Mix has nice size, but he has 3 career NFL receptions and in his best season at Auburn he had 19 catches and 3 td's. He has shown nothing to indicate that he can contribute in the passing game, let alone start. Lloyd is most likely gone. McCardell is 38 years old and who knows if he will even play. Caldwell is decent, but other than one season with Tom Brady as his qb, he hasn't done very much and is probably nothing more than a #4 or #5 receiver. In a west coast offense like the one that Zorn wants to implement you need 3-4 receivers that you can count on to contribute because you will be running a lot of 3 and sometimes even 4 receiver sets. Right now a 4 receiver set for us would be Moss, Thrash, ARE, and Caldwell. That lineup isn't going to worry an opposing defense. We need an infusion of youth and talent into the wr unit and with the new offense it has to start this offseason or we are once again going to see a mediocre offense. |
Okay, so who would you take in the 1st and 2nd rounds?
I'd take a WR in the 1st and a DE in the 2nd. I'd stick with the 21st pick, but I would 'consider' moving up into the late 1st round or the early 2nd round to get a quality DE. But I'd go in that order, WR then a DE. But that's just my opinion. |
At this point that it is still difficult to say. With the combine just having taken place and a lot of individual pro days still left, it's pretty hard to gauge where a lot of players are going to go. Prior to the combine, I was all for taking Sweed in the first. However, based on Hardy's performance, if we can get him in the second round I would be fine with passing on Sweed in the first and instead going with the best DT or DE available. I would love for Balmer to fall to us, but it probably wont happen. Harvey and Merling are options as well in the first. On the other hand, if the front office thinks that they could still land Calais Campbell (prob not but his stock has slipped a little after the combine) in the second, then I would go with a guy like Kelly or Sweed if they are available in the first. What we do in free agency will also play a factor in this obviously. If we add a wide receiver that way, then I would like to see them go with an offensive lineman in the second and the best available defensive lineman in the first. Then again, if it was me I would be looking to get more draft picks via trade. |
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brad7686
B-rad
Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 2991
Location: De La War
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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| CanesSkins26 wrote: | | SkinsFreak wrote: | | CanesSkins26 wrote: | | Quote: | | Your right on the DL but they were fine last year, they can hold their own for 1 more year. |
How did they hold their own? There was no consistent pressure from that unit. Carter was much improved, but despite his 10.5 sacks he did not provide consistent pressure the way elite defensive ends do. Montgomery was also solid, but didn't provide a consistent push up the middle. Griffin is injury prone and is nowhere near the player that he used to be. Golston is strictly a backup. Daniels is a black hole at the other end position when he isn't injured. Wilson was a nice surprise but needs a lot more work before he is anything other than a part-time player. Quarterbacks had all day to throw against these guys. Without blitzing we generate no pressure on the qb.
As for Thrash, one good game doesn't make you a starting caliber receiver. There's no guarantee that he is even back with the team next year. Mix has nice size, but he has 3 career NFL receptions and in his best season at Auburn he had 19 catches and 3 td's. He has shown nothing to indicate that he can contribute in the passing game, let alone start. Lloyd is most likely gone. McCardell is 38 years old and who knows if he will even play. Caldwell is decent, but other than one season with Tom Brady as his qb, he hasn't done very much and is probably nothing more than a #4 or #5 receiver. In a west coast offense like the one that Zorn wants to implement you need 3-4 receivers that you can count on to contribute because you will be running a lot of 3 and sometimes even 4 receiver sets. Right now a 4 receiver set for us would be Moss, Thrash, ARE, and Caldwell. That lineup isn't going to worry an opposing defense. We need an infusion of youth and talent into the wr unit and with the new offense it has to start this offseason or we are once again going to see a mediocre offense. |
Okay, so who would you take in the 1st and 2nd rounds?
I'd take a WR in the 1st and a DE in the 2nd. I'd stick with the 21st pick, but I would 'consider' moving up into the late 1st round or the early 2nd round to get a quality DE. But I'd go in that order, WR then a DE. But that's just my opinion. |
At this point that it is still difficult to say. With the combine just having taken place and a lot of individual pro days still left, it's pretty hard to gauge where a lot of players are going to go. Prior to the combine, I was all for taking Sweed in the first. However, based on Hardy's performance, if we can get him in the second round I would be fine with passing on Sweed in the first and instead going with the best DT or DE available. I would love for Balmer to fall to us, but it probably wont happen. Harvey and Merling are options as well in the first. On the other hand, if the front office thinks that they could still land Calais Campbell (prob not but his stock has slipped a little after the combine) in the second, then I would go with a guy like Kelly or Sweed if they are available in the first. What we do in free agency will also play a factor in this obviously. If we add a wide receiver that way, then I would like to see them go with an offensive lineman in the second and the best available defensive lineman in the first. Then again, if it was me I would be looking to get more draft picks via trade. |
The only thing keeping Hardy in the second round discussion was that he played for Indiana(still played AGAINST good teams) and his explosiveness was slightly in question, even though he hauled in a 40 yarder or longer in many games last year. Now that he ran that 4.44, i think our first will be in the area he goes instead of him going in the early to mid 2nd, i dont think he ever would have made it to us in the second anyway. I think a DE would be nice, but i think we can get one in the second that will be good enough especially considering that we really just need a guy that plays the pass and run well and not a dominant pass rusher(which is always the sexier pick). I personally believe someone like Lawrence Jackson will have a great chance to be there in the second. |
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SkinsFreak
Fire in the Sky
Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 4884
Location: Surfside
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:28 am Post subject: |
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| CanesSkins26 wrote: | | Prior to the combine, I was all for taking Sweed in the first. |
Mike Mayock now has Limas Sweed ranked as the #1 WR prospect in this years draft. Interesting. Before the combine, I think he had Manningham ranked #1.
I think the combine is way overrated, with the exception of maybe the 40 yard dash. Game tape of players in live action, in full pads, against real opponents, is the only gauge in my opinion. |
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SKINFAN
Hog
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 1672
Location: Sterling, Virginia
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:40 am Post subject: |
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cane, your right we got almost no pressure, but we also did not give up big chunks of rushing yards, to me that's holding your own. Doing good is getting pressure, and dominating is getting 3-5 sacks a game. They clog the middle, like they were supposed to. I'm not saying thrash is the cat's meow, but if 'Tana get's his groove back, the need for a breakout #2 reciever will be overlooked if you can get production with ARE and Capt Kaos like last year. I was just thinking that maybe, CP and Betts can get better production with an upgraded OL, w/c I hope in turn can open up the passing game. If that happens I'm hoping even Thrash or Mix can get some catches. I totally agree with you on Bloyd, He's gone. I wish we got some production out of him, but we need to move on. I will eat crow and let everybody know I'm wrong if he gets 600+ yards next season on this team. I'm just looking at the class for WR's and IMO we can get some of them on the 2nd or 3rd round. The OL class just looks good for the 1st round.
thanks andy, for the info on JC 4.7's is not too shabby for JC eh' |
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CanesSkins26
Canes Skin
Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 6870
Location: Alexandria, VA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| SkinsFreak wrote: | | CanesSkins26 wrote: | | Prior to the combine, I was all for taking Sweed in the first. |
Mike Mayock now has Limas Sweed ranked as the #1 WR prospect in this years draft. Interesting. Before the combine, I think he had Manningham ranked #1.
I think the combine is way overrated, with the exception of maybe the 40 yard dash. Game tape of players in live action, in full pads, against real opponents, is the only gauge in my opinion. |
Manningham had a horrible combine. His 40 times really, really hurt him. I believe that his second run was a 4.58. |
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