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Skinsfan55
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Joined: 04 Feb 2004
Posts: 5261
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:11 am Post subject: |
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| GSPODS wrote: |
Who says Reed Doughty will have to beat anyone in camp to earn the starting job he already has? |
A well run football team would not let a player like Reed Doughty go unchallenged for a starting job.
Of course the Redskins have been a very poorly run football team for the past 10 years or so (maybe longer) so you may be right. Only guys who are stars have job security in the NFL. |
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PulpExposure
Pushing Paper
Joined: 06 Sep 2005
Posts: 4461
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:26 am Post subject: |
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| SkinsJock wrote: | This is a win/win situation - IF we have a great draft we will be better off next season (2009) as we continue the growth that began under Gibbs  IF we have a terrible draft we will get rid of Cerrato and that would be a huge boost for our future.  |
Fantasy land. IF we have a terrible draft, Cerrato will still be back. |
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GSPODS
Hog
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 4983
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| Skinsfan55 wrote: | | GSPODS wrote: |
Who says Reed Doughty will have to beat anyone in camp to earn the starting job he already has? |
A well run football team would not let a player like Reed Doughty go unchallenged for a starting job.
Of course the Redskins have been a very poorly run football team for the past 10 years or so (maybe longer) so you may be right. Only guys who are stars have job security in the NFL. |
I was more or less looking for a bona fide source which meets clear and convincing evidence standards. Did this supposed competition come from Vinny Cerrato? Scott Campbell? Jim Zorn? Greg Blache?
I'm not saying the Redskins won't bring in another safety, either through the draft or through free agency. Clearly, they have to have another safety on the roster. But unless they draft Kenny Phillips, I don't see a rookie getting the nod over Doughty simply on NFL game experience.
And no team would be foolish enough to wait until the June cuts to fill what is obviously a needed roster position. Supposing nobody cuts a viable safety? |
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fleetus
Hog
Joined: 25 Apr 2004
Posts: 1757
Location: Charlottesville, Va.
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:46 am Post subject: |
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| GSPODS wrote: | | Skinsfan55 wrote: | | GSPODS wrote: |
Who says Reed Doughty will have to beat anyone in camp to earn the starting job he already has? |
A well run football team would not let a player like Reed Doughty go unchallenged for a starting job.
Of course the Redskins have been a very poorly run football team for the past 10 years or so (maybe longer) so you may be right. Only guys who are stars have job security in the NFL. |
I was more or less looking for a bona fide source which meets clear and convincing evidence standards. Did this supposed competition come from Vinny Cerrato? Scott Campbell? Jim Zorn? Greg Blache?
I'm not saying the Redskins won't bring in another safety, either through the draft or through free agency. Clearly, they have to have another safety on the roster. But unless they draft Kenny Phillips, I don't see a rookie getting the nod over Doughty simply on NFL game experience.
And no team would be foolish enough to wait until the June cuts to fill what is obviously a needed roster position. Supposing nobody cuts a viable safety? |
You're just being argumentative. It's an obvious point which shouldn't require this much freakin discussion. Doughty is unproven. We have 9 picks, so drafting a safety is a real possibility. PLUS, There are ALWAYS veteran safeties available as free agents (which is how we got Prioleau, Stoutmire and Fox) Stoutmire is still on the roster and by himself could challenge Doughty. Doughty is by no means penciled in as starter and it should not even be worthy of argument. The original point was we have an old team, whether you pretend Doughty is a starter or not. So, nuff said. |
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GSPODS
Hog
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 4983
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:00 am Post subject: |
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| fleetus wrote: | | GSPODS wrote: | | Skinsfan55 wrote: | | GSPODS wrote: |
Who says Reed Doughty will have to beat anyone in camp to earn the starting job he already has? |
A well run football team would not let a player like Reed Doughty go unchallenged for a starting job.
Of course the Redskins have been a very poorly run football team for the past 10 years or so (maybe longer) so you may be right. Only guys who are stars have job security in the NFL. |
I was more or less looking for a bona fide source which meets clear and convincing evidence standards. Did this supposed competition come from Vinny Cerrato? Scott Campbell? Jim Zorn? Greg Blache?
I'm not saying the Redskins won't bring in another safety, either through the draft or through free agency. Clearly, they have to have another safety on the roster. But unless they draft Kenny Phillips, I don't see a rookie getting the nod over Doughty simply on NFL game experience.
And no team would be foolish enough to wait until the June cuts to fill what is obviously a needed roster position. Supposing nobody cuts a viable safety? |
You're just being argumentative. It's an obvious point which shouldn't require this much freakin discussion. Doughty is unproven. We have 9 picks, so drafting a safety is a real possibility. PLUS, There are ALWAYS veteran safeties available as free agents (which is how we got Prioleau, Stoutmire and Fox) Stoutmire is still on the roster and by himself could challenge Doughty. Doughty is by no means penciled in as starter and it should not even be worthy of argument. The original point was we have an old team, whether you pretend Doughty is a starter or not. So, nuff said. |
Stoutmire doesn't appear on the Redskins roster.
Are you sure he's on the Redskins roster?
Drafting a safety is pretty much a definite.
Prioleau, Stoutmire and Fox are not what I would consider starting caliber safeties, regardless of how they were obtained.
Nobody is penciled in as a starter before the draft, training camp, and cuts.
What does having an old team have to do with Doughty? I missed the point in that statement.
The point is we have nothing other than speculation about what the Redskins could or should or will do. All the interviews, statements, articles, websites, blogs and message boards combined have no idea what the Redskins are doing. We just hope the Redskins front office is a lot less clueless than we are. |
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SkinsFreak
Fire in the Sky
Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 4884
Location: Surfside
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:06 am Post subject: |
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| GSPODS wrote: | The Redskins have not listed "a starting safety" as a top priority.
The Redskins have listed "a safety" as a depth need.
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I have heard and read that the Skins feel safety is a position of need. It has even come directly from Zorn, as I posted a link to a video in which Zorn identified safety as a position of need. But nowhere, have I seen or heard any reports or pressers, from the organization, that said they are only in need of "safety depth", or made any such distinction between needing depth vs. a starter.
Do you have a link to a direct quote stating they're only interested in "safety depth"? |
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GSPODS
Hog
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 4983
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:16 am Post subject: |
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| SkinsFreak wrote: | | GSPODS wrote: | The Redskins have not listed "a starting safety" as a top priority.
The Redskins have listed "a safety" as a depth need.
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I have heard and read that the Skins feel safety is a position of need. It has even come directly from Zorn, as I posted a link to a video in which Zorn identified safety as a position of need. But nowhere, have I seen or heard any reports or pressers, from the organization, that said they are only in need of "safety depth", or made any such distinction between needing depth vs. a starter.
Do you have a link to a direct quote stating they're only interested in "safety depth"? |
I've been asking for a quote saying the Redskins are looking for a starter.
Obviously they have to add a safety. They don't have enough to fill the roster. The argument is whether they are looking for a starter or a backup. And if they are looking for a starter, they would likely either have to draft Kenny Phillips or to look to free agency, IMO. The safety position isn't very deep in this draft as far as immediate starting talent goes.
Phillips is the only projected first round safety and not everybody is sold on his abilities at the next level. The majority of the safeties in this draft are projected as third round or lower prospects. I wouldn't mind the Skins drafting Quintin Demps or Josh Barrett in the third round but I doubt either one would take Doughty's starting position. |
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SkinsFreak
Fire in the Sky
Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 4884
Location: Surfside
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:03 am Post subject: |
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| GSPODS wrote: | | I've been asking for a quote saying the Redskins are looking for a starter. |
First, I don't believe anyone has made any assertion that the Skins have SAID they want a stater at safety. As I said, they have mentioned it as an area of need, and to my knowledge, have made no distinction as to whether they are primarily going after a starter or just looking for depth.
But, again, you said...
| GSPODS wrote: | | The Redskins have listed "a safety" as a depth need. |
Show me where that is listed and provide a direct quote or link.
Second. Phillips is not the only 1st round projection at safety. In fact, he isn't even rated as the top safety prospect in this class at this point. Several mocks I've seen have Johnson going in the 1st, perhaps to the Giants. It is my opinion that any of the top five safety prospects could beat out Doughty for a starting role. Obviously they'll have to prove it in camp, but don't forget, Doughty was a 6th round pick from a Division II school. |
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VetSkinsFan
One Step Away
Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 7779
Location: NoVA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:10 am Post subject: |
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Coaches could look to add a safety in free agency or the draft to challenge Doughty and improve depth at the position. Team officials have indicated that safety is a need position this offseason.
http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=34711 |
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SkinsFreak
Fire in the Sky
Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 4884
Location: Surfside
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:24 am Post subject: |
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| VetSkinsFan wrote: | Coaches could look to add a safety in free agency or the draft to challenge Doughty and improve depth at the position. Team officials have indicated that safety is a need position this offseason.
http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=34711 |
Exactly, a challenger for Doughty and the starting role, or merely depth behind Doughty. But not a direct quote stating we are ONLY looking for depth, as in a sole back-up role, as GSPODS is asserting. |
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VetSkinsFan
One Step Away
Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 7779
Location: NoVA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| SkinsFreak wrote: | | VetSkinsFan wrote: | Coaches could look to add a safety in free agency or the draft to challenge Doughty and improve depth at the position. Team officials have indicated that safety is a need position this offseason.
http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=34711 |
Exactly, a challenger for Doughty and the starting role, or merely depth behind Doughty. But not a direct quote stating we are ONLY looking for depth, as in a sole back-up role, as GSPODS is asserting. |
I was reinforcing my position. He's better than I am at research  |
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yupchagee
#14
Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 4126
Location: Louisville KY
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| SkinsFreak wrote: | | GSPODS wrote: | | I've been asking for a quote saying the Redskins are looking for a starter. |
First, I don't believe anyone has made any assertion that the Skins have SAID they want a stater at safety. As I said, they have mentioned it as an area of need, and to my knowledge, have made no distinction as to whether they are primarily going after a starter or just looking for depth.
But, again, you said...
| GSPODS wrote: | | The Redskins have listed "a safety" as a depth need. |
Show me where that is listed and provide a direct quote or link.
Second. Phillips is not the only 1st round projection at safety. In fact, he isn't even rated as the top safety prospect in this class at this point. Several mocks I've seen have Johnson going in the 1st, perhaps to the Giants. It is my opinion that any of the top five safety prospects could beat out Doughty for a starting role. Obviously they'll have to prove it in camp, but don't forget, Doughty was a 6th round pick from a Division II school. |
Northern Colorado is division 1-AA. What does that have to do with anything? He played well at the end of the season & Cooley says look for him to have a breakout year. |
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GSPODS
Hog
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 4983
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:31 am Post subject: |
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| SkinsFreak wrote: | | VetSkinsFan wrote: | Coaches could look to add a safety in free agency or the draft to challenge Doughty and improve depth at the position. Team officials have indicated that safety is a need position this offseason.
http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=34711 |
Exactly, a challenger for Doughty and the starting role, or merely depth behind Doughty. But not a direct quote stating we are ONLY looking for depth, as in a sole back-up role, as GSPODS is asserting. |
"Instead of just adding a couple of guys this time, we need [a draft] where we're adding quantity and quality guys. We need talented guys that can initially play a role and have the potential to become starters. And the biggest thing you need is good people.
"Is that a lot? Yeah. But we feel like we're in good shape. We're not looking for these young guys to come in here and start. And with our team right now, it would be difficult for a young guy to do that."
Copied from the Cerrato Discusses the Draft thread.
http://www.thehogs.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26628
I'll take Cerrato's word over any reporter. |
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SkinsFreak
Fire in the Sky
Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 4884
Location: Surfside
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| yupchagee wrote: | | Northern Colorado is division 1-AA. What does that have to do with anything? He played well at the end of the season & Cooley says look for him to have a breakout year. |
Not yet... and at least when Doughty was there, they were definitely still a Division II school.
| Quote: | | Sports teams at the school are called Bears. Northern Colorado is currently in the fourth year of a four-year process of moving from NCAA’s Division II to Division I (I-AA for football). |
I absolutely agree Doughty came on at the end of the season and he very well could break out this coming season. It's my opinion, that a safety drafted in one of the first 3 rounds from a big school in a more competitive conference could have a greater chance of earning a starting role over a 6th rounder from a smaller school that played in a less competitive conference. Doughty could win the spot, he clearly has the advantage of already playing at the NFL level. I'm just stating an opinion. |
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yupchagee
#14
Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 4126
Location: Louisville KY
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| SkinsFreak wrote: | | yupchagee wrote: | | Northern Colorado is division 1-AA. What does that have to do with anything? He played well at the end of the season & Cooley says look for him to have a breakout year. |
Not yet... and at least when Doughty was there, they were definitely still a Division II school.
| Quote: | | Sports teams at the school are called Bears. Northern Colorado is currently in the fourth year of a four-year process of moving from NCAA’s Division II to Division I (I-AA for football). |
I absolutely agree Doughty came on at the end of the season and he very well could break out this coming season. It's my opinion, that a safety drafted in one of the first 3 rounds from a big school in a more competitive conference could have a greater chance of earning a starting role over a 6th rounder from a smaller school that played in a less competitive conference. Doughty could win the spot, he clearly has the advantage of already playing at the NFL level. I'm just stating an opinion. |
I remember it being refered to as division 1-AA. Wikidepia is frequently innacurate. |
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