| Welcome to the home of some of the Washington Redskins' most ravenous fans. If this is your first visit, please read our rules and regulations. You must register before you can access all of the forums, and to use all the board's features and options; members also enjoy fewer advertisements. |
| Author |
Message |
fleetus
Hog
Joined: 25 Apr 2004
Posts: 1757
Location: Charlottesville, Va.
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:26 am Post subject: |
 |
|
Well, not really. I think they could draft another late round safety and it may be possible for that guy to beat Doughty. Laron's brother (Dawan) was drafted in the 5th round and he started at safety as a rookie for the Ravens. it's not uncommon, especially when the incumbent is as shaky as Doughty. Nothing against him, would love to see him step up and earn that job.
Not that Scouts Inc. is the bible, but, to put this in perspective that will be easy to understand, they grade Doughty with a 58 out of 100. Right now, there are 10 safeties in the draft with grades 58 or higher. The lowest of the ten, and a safety I'd love to see the Skins draft, Jamie Silva, is projected to go in the 6th or 7th round. He is also graded a 58. So, even though a rookie will need to learn the defensive scheme, there is by no means a requirement that they be drafted in the first three rounds to be good enough to earn a starting job in camp, IMO.
Here's the ten safeties graded as high as Doughty or higher, their projected round and their grades:
Kenny Phillips - 88 1st/2nd
*Tyrell Johnson - 77 2nd/3rd (one mock had Giants selecting him 31st)
*DeJuan Morgan - 75 2nd/3rd
Thomas DeCoud - 71 3rd/4th
Joshua Barrett -69 3rd/4th
Tom Zbikowski - 67 3rd/4th
Marcus Griffin - 62 4th/5th
*Quintin Demps -60 4th/5th
Simeon Castille - 59 5th-7th
*Jamie Silva - 58 6th/7th
* Players I like  |
|
| Back to top |
|
CanesSkins26
Canes Skin
Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 6870
Location: Alexandria, VA
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 4:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Some info on Merling...
| Quote: | Strengths:
Terrific size and bulk with long arms...Great quickness...Has a non-stop motor...Is very strong and powerful...Plays with a nasty demeanor...Excellent range and he is relentless in pursuit...Natural pass rusher with a variety of moves...Can take on multiple blockers and shed the double team...Does a nice job versus the run...Has good instincts & awareness...Reliable tackler...Solid technician...Does a nice job in space...Extremely versatile...Can play a number of positions in different schemes.
Weaknesses:
May lack elite athleticism...Won't scare anyone off the edge...Does not have great timed speed and isn't real explosive...Might be a bit of a 'tweener...He can be too aggressive at times...Will get pushed back...Needs to work on his hand use...Has to work on keeping his shoulders square...Intelligence could be an issue with him. |
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/de/phillipmerling.html |
|
| Back to top |
|
yupchagee
#14
Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 4113
Location: Louisville KY
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| CanesSkins26 wrote: | Some info on Merling...
| Quote: | Strengths:
Terrific size and bulk with long arms...Great quickness...Has a non-stop motor...Is very strong and powerful...Plays with a nasty demeanor...Excellent range and he is relentless in pursuit...Natural pass rusher with a variety of moves...Can take on multiple blockers and shed the double team...Does a nice job versus the run...Has good instincts & awareness...Reliable tackler...Solid technician...Does a nice job in space...Extremely versatile...Can play a number of positions in different schemes.
Weaknesses:
May lack elite athleticism...Won't scare anyone off the edge...Does not have great timed speed and isn't real explosive...Might be a bit of a 'tweener...He can be too aggressive at times...Will get pushed back...Needs to work on his hand use...Has to work on keeping his shoulders square...Intelligence could be an issue with him. |
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/de/phillipmerling.html |
| Quote: | | ..Natural pass rusher with a variety of moves... |
| Quote: | | ...Won't scare anyone off the edge... |
Does anyone else see the inconsistency here? |
|
| Back to top |
|
gay4pacman
Pacman Rules
Joined: 17 Apr 2005
Posts: 1855
Location: Lawn Monster
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
| not really. What about someone like chris wilson... He has all the moves, spin, bull, speed with a good shoulder dip, counter, etc.. but doesnt scare anyone coming off the edge. Developing those moves makes him a better pass rusher but he doesnt yet have the intangibles to make him a scary pass rusher off the edge. until he can do that he will always be a situational pass rusher. |
|
| Back to top |
|
GSPODS
Hog
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 4983
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
I see that you mock my draft ...
And my draft will not be mocked. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Link
|
|
 |
VetSkinsFan
One Step Away
Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 7779
Location: NoVA
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Chris Wilson needs to bulk up a bit. |
|
| Back to top |
|
GSPODS
Hog
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 4983
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
| VetSkinsFan wrote: | | Chris Wilson needs to bulk up a bit. |
Or learn to play linebacker. |
|
| Back to top |
|
PulpExposure
Pushing Paper
Joined: 06 Sep 2005
Posts: 4461
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
| fleetus wrote: | | Not that Scouts Inc. is the bible, but, to put this in perspective that will be easy to understand, they grade Doughty with a 58 out of 100. Right now, there are 10 safeties in the draft with grades 58 or higher. |
Two things to consider. First is those player ratings are from preseason 2007, and it's likely Doughty will be rated higher this year.
The second, and the main difference, is Doughty is rated 58/100 as an NFL player, and those safeties are rated 58/100 as draft prospects. I.e., they have Darren McFadden ranked as a 98, and the highest NFL player is ranked 95 (Peyton Manning). It's absurd to think McFadden is a better NFL player than Manning, until you realize McFadden is ranked as a draft prospect, not as an NFL player.
Completely different scales, if you look at them.
For NFL Players:
| Quote: | 100-90: Elite Player
Player demonstrates rare abilities and can create mismatches that have an obvious impact on the game ... Premier NFL player who has all the skills to consistently play at a championship level ... Rates as one of the top players in the league at his position.
89-80: Outstanding Player
Player has abilities to create mismatches versus most opponents in the NFL ... A feature player who has an impact on the outcome of the game ... Cannot be shut down by a single player and plays on a consistent level week-in and week-out.
79-70: Good Starter
Solid starter who is close to being an outstanding player ... Has few weaknesses and will usually win his individual matchup but does not dominate in every game, especially when matched up against the top players in the league.
69-60: Average Starter
A valuable roster player but is not dominant against the better players he faces on a week-to-week basis... Gives great effort and you are glad that he is on your team, but he may or may not go to the next level.
59- 50: Good Backup
A player who is on the bubble and starts only because of a deficiency at the position ... He lacks complete overall skills, and although he will battle he will hinder his team's ability to play at a championship level if he is forced to be in the starting lineup consistently over a 16-game season ... A player you don't mind having on your team but someone you are always looking to upgrade.
49-40: Below Average Backup/Core Special Teamers
Strictly a backup player who is not capable of starting ... If he is forced to start he is no more than a short-term fix ... He may make the team because of special teams contributions or experience ... A player you are always looking to upgrade as he will always be a borderline roster guy.
30: Rookie -- Post-draft
No professional tape to evaluate ... Will have a college report but will not get an NFL grade until the spring after his rookie season ... Will carry the 30 grade throughout his first NFL season.
20: Developmental Player
A player with very little film to evaluate ... A guy who might show "flashes" in the preseason but does not have any regular-season views ... He has very little experience but he has to be tracked due to his developmental potential.
10: Evaluation in Process -- Need More Information
|
For Potential draftees (from a pop-up, click explanation of grades:
| Quote: | 90-100 Rare Prospect Player demonstrates rare abilities and can create mismatches that have an obvious impact on the game. Is a premier college player that has all the skill to take over a game and play at a championship level. He rates in the top 5 players in the nation at his position and is considered a first round draft prospect.
80-89 - Outstanding Prospect Player has abilities to create mismatches versus most opponents in the NFL. A feature player that has an impact on the outcome of the game. Cannot be shut down by a single player and plays on a consistent level week in and week out. He rates in the top 10 at his position and is considered a second round draft prospect.
70-79 - Solid Prospect Still a standout player at the college level that is close to being an elite player. He has no glaring weaknesses and will usually win his individual matchups, but does not dominate in every game, especially when matched up against the top players in the country. He will usually rate in the top third of players at his position and is considered a third round draft prospect.
60-69 - Good Prospect This player is an good starter that will give a solid effort week in and week out, but he is overmatched versus the better players in the nation. His weaknesses will be exposed against top competition. He is usually a prospect that is missing something from his game. For example, he has the size and skills to be an outstanding prospect, but lacks the speed. He will usually rate in the top half of the players at his position and is considered a middle round draft choice.
50-59 - Adequate Prospect These are usually players that play at a high level in college, but lack some measurables or skills to play at that same level in the NFL. He may be a player that has a lot of developmental qualities, or could be a player that will contribute right away on special teams or in a situational capacity. He will usually rate in the second-third at his position and is considered a fifth round draft choice.
21-49 - Borderline Draft Prospect These are players that teams like something about, but certainly do not have the full package in terms of NFL talent. A lot of times, teams will take chances on character players or developmental type athletes with this grade. And often, these are players that come from smaller schools or did not standout at the college level. NFL teams are looking for 'diamonds in the rough' with this type of prospect. He will usually rate in the bottom third of players at his position and will be considered a late round draft choice or un-drafted free agent.
20 - Free Agent Prospect These are players that did not make our original 'evaluation list' but are prospects that need to be monitored. Especially in the pre-season, these players will fluctuate up and down depending on performance in their final year of eligibility.
10 - Not a legitimate Prospect These are players that lack NFL measurables and/or skills. They are players that we feel would not even make a solid contribution as a training camp body.
|
Apples & oranges, Fleetus. |
|
| Back to top |
|
yupchagee
#14
Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 4113
Location: Louisville KY
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| gay4pacman wrote: | | not really. What about someone like chris wilson... He has all the moves, spin, bull, speed with a good shoulder dip, counter, etc.. but doesnt scare anyone coming off the edge. Developing those moves makes him a better pass rusher but he doesnt yet have the intangibles to make him a scary pass rusher off the edge. until he can do that he will always be a situational pass rusher. |
Wilson had 4 sacks in very limited playing time. I think we will scare some people off the edge. |
|
| Back to top |
|
CanesSkins26
Canes Skin
Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 6870
Location: Alexandria, VA
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
Wilson had 4 sacks in very limited playing time. I think we will scare some people off the edge. |
2 of his sacks were coverage sacks. Nobody is going to be scared of Wilson at this point in his career. He works hard and has talent, but he needs to bulk up if he wants to be anything other than a part-time player. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Link
|
|
|
yupchagee
#14
Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 4113
Location: Louisville KY
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| CanesSkins26 wrote: | | Quote: |
Wilson had 4 sacks in very limited playing time. I think we will scare some people off the edge. |
2 of his sacks were coverage sacks. Nobody is going to be scared of Wilson at this point in his career. He works hard and has talent, but he needs to bulk up if he wants to be anything other than a part-time player. |
Lots of sacks are coverage sacks, but they still count. His speed off the edge has to make opposing OL's a little nervous. In any case, we are off yopic as my initial comment was about the analysis of Merling, who does not lack size. |
|
| Back to top |
|
VetSkinsFan
One Step Away
Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 7779
Location: NoVA
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| yupchagee wrote: | | CanesSkins26 wrote: | | Quote: |
Wilson had 4 sacks in very limited playing time. I think we will scare some people off the edge. |
2 of his sacks were coverage sacks. Nobody is going to be scared of Wilson at this point in his career. He works hard and has talent, but he needs to bulk up if he wants to be anything other than a part-time player. |
Lots of sacks are coverage sacks, but they still count. His speed off the edge has to make opposing OL's a little nervous. In any case, we are off yopic as my initial comment was about the analysis of Merling, who does not lack size. |
I think we need a DT, not a DE.... We have enough DEs. |
|
| Back to top |
|
CanesSkins26
Canes Skin
Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 6870
Location: Alexandria, VA
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| VetSkinsFan wrote: | | yupchagee wrote: | | CanesSkins26 wrote: | | Quote: |
Wilson had 4 sacks in very limited playing time. I think we will scare some people off the edge. |
2 of his sacks were coverage sacks. Nobody is going to be scared of Wilson at this point in his career. He works hard and has talent, but he needs to bulk up if he wants to be anything other than a part-time player. |
Lots of sacks are coverage sacks, but they still count. His speed off the edge has to make opposing OL's a little nervous. In any case, we are off yopic as my initial comment was about the analysis of Merling, who does not lack size. |
I think we need a DT, not a DE.... We have enough DEs. |
I think that we could use both. We have no real depth at either position and are in need of an infusion of talent on the defensive line. |
|
| Back to top |
|
yupchagee
#14
Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 4113
Location: Louisville KY
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| VetSkinsFan wrote: | | yupchagee wrote: | | CanesSkins26 wrote: | | Quote: |
Wilson had 4 sacks in very limited playing time. I think we will scare some people off the edge. |
2 of his sacks were coverage sacks. Nobody is going to be scared of Wilson at this point in his career. He works hard and has talent, but he needs to bulk up if he wants to be anything other than a part-time player. |
Lots of sacks are coverage sacks, but they still count. His speed off the edge has to make opposing OL's a little nervous. In any case, we are off yopic as my initial comment was about the analysis of Merling, who does not lack size. |
I think we need a DT, not a DE.... We have enough DEs. |
My guess is that we'll draft 1 of each. I think the 1st priority is a pass rusher, & pass rushing DT's are hard to find after Ellis & Dorsey. They will be gone long before we pick. I think we'll look for a development type in the mid to late rounds. |
|
| Back to top |
|
fleetus
Hog
Joined: 25 Apr 2004
Posts: 1757
Location: Charlottesville, Va.
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| PulpExposure wrote: | | fleetus wrote: | | Not that Scouts Inc. is the bible, but, to put this in perspective that will be easy to understand, they grade Doughty with a 58 out of 100. Right now, there are 10 safeties in the draft with grades 58 or higher. |
Two things to consider. First is those player ratings are from preseason 2007, and it's likely Doughty will be rated higher this year.
The second, and the main difference, is Doughty is rated 58/100 as an NFL player, and those safeties are rated 58/100 as draft prospects. I.e., they have Darren McFadden ranked as a 98, and the highest NFL player is ranked 95 (Peyton Manning). It's absurd to think McFadden is a better NFL player than Manning, until you realize McFadden is ranked as a draft prospect, not as an NFL player.
Completely different scales, if you look at them.
For NFL Players:
| Quote: | 100-90: Elite Player
Player demonstrates rare abilities and can create mismatches that have an obvious impact on the game ... Premier NFL player who has all the skills to consistently play at a championship level ... Rates as one of the top players in the league at his position.
89-80: Outstanding Player
Player has abilities to create mismatches versus most opponents in the NFL ... A feature player who has an impact on the outcome of the game ... Cannot be shut down by a single player and plays on a consistent level week-in and week-out.
79-70: Good Starter
Solid starter who is close to being an outstanding player ... Has few weaknesses and will usually win his individual matchup but does not dominate in every game, especially when matched up against the top players in the league.
69-60: Average Starter
A valuable roster player but is not dominant against the better players he faces on a week-to-week basis... Gives great effort and you are glad that he is on your team, but he may or may not go to the next level.
59- 50: Good Backup
A player who is on the bubble and starts only because of a deficiency at the position ... He lacks complete overall skills, and although he will battle he will hinder his team's ability to play at a championship level if he is forced to be in the starting lineup consistently over a 16-game season ... A player you don't mind having on your team but someone you are always looking to upgrade.
49-40: Below Average Backup/Core Special Teamers
Strictly a backup player who is not capable of starting ... If he is forced to start he is no more than a short-term fix ... He may make the team because of special teams contributions or experience ... A player you are always looking to upgrade as he will always be a borderline roster guy.
30: Rookie -- Post-draft
No professional tape to evaluate ... Will have a college report but will not get an NFL grade until the spring after his rookie season ... Will carry the 30 grade throughout his first NFL season.
20: Developmental Player
A player with very little film to evaluate ... A guy who might show "flashes" in the preseason but does not have any regular-season views ... He has very little experience but he has to be tracked due to his developmental potential.
10: Evaluation in Process -- Need More Information
|
For Potential draftees (from a pop-up, click explanation of grades:
| Quote: | 90-100 Rare Prospect Player demonstrates rare abilities and can create mismatches that have an obvious impact on the game. Is a premier college player that has all the skill to take over a game and play at a championship level. He rates in the top 5 players in the nation at his position and is considered a first round draft prospect.
80-89 - Outstanding Prospect Player has abilities to create mismatches versus most opponents in the NFL. A feature player that has an impact on the outcome of the game. Cannot be shut down by a single player and plays on a consistent level week in and week out. He rates in the top 10 at his position and is considered a second round draft prospect.
70-79 - Solid Prospect Still a standout player at the college level that is close to being an elite player. He has no glaring weaknesses and will usually win his individual matchups, but does not dominate in every game, especially when matched up against the top players in the country. He will usually rate in the top third of players at his position and is considered a third round draft prospect.
60-69 - Good Prospect This player is an good starter that will give a solid effort week in and week out, but he is overmatched versus the better players in the nation. His weaknesses will be exposed against top competition. He is usually a prospect that is missing something from his game. For example, he has the size and skills to be an outstanding prospect, but lacks the speed. He will usually rate in the top half of the players at his position and is considered a middle round draft choice.
50-59 - Adequate Prospect These are usually players that play at a high level in college, but lack some measurables or skills to play at that same level in the NFL. He may be a player that has a lot of developmental qualities, or could be a player that will contribute right away on special teams or in a situational capacity. He will usually rate in the second-third at his position and is considered a fifth round draft choice.
21-49 - Borderline Draft Prospect These are players that teams like something about, but certainly do not have the full package in terms of NFL talent. A lot of times, teams will take chances on character players or developmental type athletes with this grade. And often, these are players that come from smaller schools or did not standout at the college level. NFL teams are looking for 'diamonds in the rough' with this type of prospect. He will usually rate in the bottom third of players at his position and will be considered a late round draft choice or un-drafted free agent.
20 - Free Agent Prospect These are players that did not make our original 'evaluation list' but are prospects that need to be monitored. Especially in the pre-season, these players will fluctuate up and down depending on performance in their final year of eligibility.
10 - Not a legitimate Prospect These are players that lack NFL measurables and/or skills. They are players that we feel would not even make a solid contribution as a training camp body.
|
Apples & oranges, Fleetus. |
Duly noted. I still believe that the original point remains the same. Doughty is not locked in as starter. And the Skins will draft a safety or sign a free agent to compete for that job. I believe Kenoy Kennedy is a free agent right now and there will surely be some available after the draft and June 1st. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Link
|
|
|
| Page 8 of 10 | All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
