Official Post Game Discussion- Skins/Broncos

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Postby langleyparkjoe » Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:02 am

Folks, I wasn't able to watch the game yesterday and I coldn't DVR it, is there anyplace online or wherever that I could watch it?????
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Postby VetSkinsFan » Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:14 am

While I think Moss adds to our team, I'd trade Cooley for an early pick (maybe an early 2nd rounder so we can stockpile Olinemen). We have Davis and he can learn to block a little better and do what we need there, and is younger. I really believe having 2 quality TEs is a luxary, a luxary the Skins can't afford - consdering our other issues.


You'd trade our best receiver and Pro Bowl TE and rely on a TE who's had a few decent games? And keep Moss instead?

Wow. Cooley is a guy we can rely on WHILE rebuilding, and you want to get rid of him? This is nominated as the bonehead post of the week.
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Postby dlc » Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:35 am

VetSkinsFan wrote:
While I think Moss adds to our team, I'd trade Cooley for an early pick (maybe an early 2nd rounder so we can stockpile Olinemen). We have Davis and he can learn to block a little better and do what we need there, and is younger. I really believe having 2 quality TEs is a luxary, a luxary the Skins can't afford - consdering our other issues.


You'd trade our best receiver and Pro Bowl TE and rely on a TE who's had a few decent games? And keep Moss instead?

Wow. Cooley is a guy we can rely on WHILE rebuilding, and you want to get rid of him? This is nominated as the bonehead post of the week.


This might not be the right move, but it's definitely not a bonehead post. Cooley is a good WR, but most people want to keep him around because he's a likable guy. Isn't that Snyder's mentality to personnel decisions?

A TE has two even responsiblities and Cooley is very good at one and below average on the other. Because he's likable, most people overlook the times he gets blown up by an LB or sometimes wiffs altogether.

With the exceptions of some (like Monk, Green, Mann), you should always be ready to trade players if it makes the team better as a whole. If we got a 2nd rounder or a pretty decent RT for Cooley with Yoder and Davis filling in, that's how you get better.

Bonehead decisions are picking players mostly on popularity and personality.

Look at the good teams. Indy dropped Marvin Harrison, Marshall Faulk, Edgerrin James. Patriots traded away Ty Law, Assante Samuel, Vrabel, Seymour (too many to list). These aren't just great players, most were symbols of the team before they left.

Smart teams look beyond emotional ties. Personnel is like investments, buy low and sell high.

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Postby RayNAustin » Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:42 am

frankcal20 wrote:I don't think we would have won today if Collins is in the game. Ray, just be happy we won.


I am always happy when the Skins win. But let's not put perfume on a pig here. Campbell was woefully inaccurate as always ... the pass to a wide open Moss is INEXCUSABLE ... the ball wasn't even in the same zip code .. and he had perfect pass pro. The TD to Yoder was off the mark and required a diving catch. Then there were several other passes that were off the mark, and the majority of he yards came from YAC on great efforts by ARE, Davis, Thomas on dinks and dunks. Totally pedestrian performance while the o-line played extremely well, and the run game carried the offense. Might I add that in the intentional grounding call (bad call) we had a guy (Yoder I think?) WIDE OPEN in the middle of the field with nobody within 10 yards of him ... an easy TD. Luckily, we had a trick play that scored.

Had Orton not been injurred, and our punter not thrown a TD pass, it would have been another one of those "IF ONLY" games again.

What we learned from yesterday is this:

1) we need a QB

2) Rogers should share the cab out of DC with Campbell at the end of the year

3) We have plenty of talent at the WR position ... we just need someone to get them the ball CONSISTENTLY.

4) Landry is very mediocre, and we really need a play maker at FS. He ain't it

5) The offense is a couple of good o-linemen and a QB away from being extremely talented and competitive.

6) Zorn's overall approach on offense is flawed, and he should be in the cab with Campell and Rogers.

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Postby Redskin in Canada » Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:46 am

It feels good today in an otherwise dismal season. I hope they manage to achieve an 8 - 8 record plus / minus one game. That's my highest hope right now. Then they would have met my expectation for this season.

Considering the circumstances, 8 - 8 would be an excellent result. After that, there will be many substantial changes in this team and I do not know what to say about those yet.
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Postby SkinsFan_GA » Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:49 am

I was able to catch a majority of the game online and I must say it was definately a nice change of pace to our season thus far. While there were some mistakes, I must say we looked more like a TEAM IMO yesterday than any other time this season. Hopefully that mentality can carry over next week. Great game Skins.

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Postby cleg » Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:51 am

It is probably a coincidence that the last 6 quarters of football have been the best of the year and have also been without Portis but I like what I am seeing from the B team, and the O line's F team. This offseaso in addition to Vinny I would like to see Moss, Portis, ARE and Rogers gone. No need to have their attitudes hanging around a rebuilding team. Rogers can pout all he wants for being benched but he should just be cut right now - if that dude could have caught the ball there would have been at least two more wins each season he's been taking up space.
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Postby SkinsFan_GA » Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:52 am

Redskin in Canada wrote:It feels good today in an otherwise dismal season. I hope they manage to achieve an 8 - 8 record plus / minus one game. That's my highest hope right now. Then they would have met my expectation for this season.

Considering the circumstances, 8 - 8 would be an excellent result. After that, there will be many substantial changes in this team and I do not know what to say about those yet.


It's sad to say but I'm actually looking forward to this offseason. I'm interested to see what changes in personnel changes will be made, what kind of draft we'll have, etc...

This season quickly became a bit of a wash, hopefully we'll make some smart moves this offseason and rebuild for a better team in the future. As for the 8-8 finish, I would be thrilled to somehow find a way to win 5 more. I won't exactly hold my breath but if we play like yesterday I think we could compete for the win week in and week out.

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Postby VetSkinsFan » Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:55 am

dlc wrote:
VetSkinsFan wrote:
While I think Moss adds to our team, I'd trade Cooley for an early pick (maybe an early 2nd rounder so we can stockpile Olinemen). We have Davis and he can learn to block a little better and do what we need there, and is younger. I really believe having 2 quality TEs is a luxary, a luxary the Skins can't afford - consdering our other issues.


You'd trade our best receiver and Pro Bowl TE and rely on a TE who's had a few decent games? And keep Moss instead?

Wow. Cooley is a guy we can rely on WHILE rebuilding, and you want to get rid of him? This is nominated as the bonehead post of the week.


This might not be the right move, but it's definitely not a bonehead post. Cooley is a good WR, but most people want to keep him around because he's a likable guy. Isn't that Snyder's mentality to personnel decisions?

A TE has two even responsiblities and Cooley is very good at one and below average on the other. Because he's likable, most people overlook the times he gets blown up by an LB or sometimes wiffs altogether.

With the exceptions of some (like Monk, Green, Mann), you should always be ready to trade players if it makes the team better as a whole. If we got a 2nd rounder or a pretty decent RT for Cooley with Yoder and Davis filling in, that's how you get better.

Bonehead decisions are picking players mostly on popularity and personality.

Look at the good teams. Indy dropped Marvin Harrison, Marshall Faulk, Edgerrin James. Patriots traded away Ty Law, Assante Samuel, Vrabel, Seymour (too many to list). These aren't just great players, most were symbols of the team before they left.

Smart teams look beyond emotional ties. Personnel is like investments, buy low and sell high.


Cooley is a franchise player and you don't trade away franchise player. He's led the team in receptions the past three years (2006-08 ) and was only behind Moss by 13 catches in Moss' record year. He had 37 catches as a rookie.

To think that we support Cooley b/c he's "a likeable guy" is absurd at the very least. He's a competitor, he's a Pro Bowler, and he's our best receiver. That, my friend, is why this is a boneheaded move.

And the majority of those players listed were either on the decline or on the end of their prime (stereotypically). Cooley's not there, and Asante was too expensive. Apples and oranges.

Please show me, with what I illustrated, how this is an emotional decision...
Last edited by VetSkinsFan on Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
...any given Sunday....

RIP #21 Sean Taylor. You will be loved and adored by Redskins fans forever!!!!!

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Postby DEHog » Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:02 am

Franchise player??? I guess I have a different definition of a franchise player...it's one you can't win without...last time I checked we don't have one of those??
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Postby roybus14 » Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:18 am

RayA - I can no longer argue with you on Campbell. What you said was right on. I put up a new thread about that missed pass to Moss sealing his fate.

But about the other stuff.... Landry is not the answer at FS and a decision on personnel needs to be made on that position. Yes Horton is good but he's not a FS. Reed is good but he's not a FS either. Right now, the secondary is operating with nothing but SS's.

After the OLine is addressed with a high draft pick and signing one of the young studs available in free agency, the next areas that need to be addressed in my opinion are at FS, CB, LB, QB and RB.

FS - We don't need another "hitter" at FS. We need a ball-hawk at FS. Sean Taylor gave us both which is rare in this league. But we need another ball-hawk so that Landry can go back to his natural position of SS. If Hall could learn how to tackle and the youngin's at CB do step up, we could move Hall to FS...

CB - Carlos is done. Coach-up Barnes and Tryon and let Carlos go, period..

LB - The LB position needs to be upgraded because IMO, Orakpo needs to be next to Haynesworth. He's proven that week after week with the sacks. You need two LBs. One to replace Orakpo and one to groom to replace London in another year or two because he's played in 180+ straight games and he's getting older. Not saying London is losing or has lost it but good teams prepare for when players get old.

QB - Well, Jason IMO, showed us yesterday that with protection and time, he is inaccurate. Don't know if Colt is the answer but this needs to be addressed.

RB - Let's stop with the Clinton is the "guy" stuff and face reality. He's just not getting it done anymore. And I seriously doubt that starting Levi Jones suddenly solved our running game issue. Ladell Betts is faster and more deliberate in hitting the line than Clinton is. This happens every year in this league where your "featured back" can't get it done anymore. I appreciate what Clinton has done since he's been here but it's time to move on. It's a different running style and mind set. Yes, Ladell is fresher but, let's face it, Clinton doesn't have it anymore. Let's keep going with Betts, Rock and Ganther and then in the off-season, make the "hard" decision that teams like Indy, Arizona, New England, Baltimore, etc. have made on their RB situations and move on.
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Postby Irn-Bru » Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:25 am

Good game by the Skins. We haven't seen that much heart all year; they actually looked like they wanted this one, badly. I can take tough losses and up-and-down seasons as long as this team plays with heart. And that's what made the first half of this year so difficult to watch, or even to care whatsoever. Glad to see some fire back in the team — but will it last?

This season reminds me a lot of the last several years under Gibbs. Lots of people came on THN and (wrongly) asserted that the team didn't have heart or didn't want to win. It's sad that they couldn't see it — I really did feel bad for them — because even the 5-11 and 6-10 teams under Gibbs were are least entertaining and fun to watch. There were many frustrating moments but there was no question in my mind that the team was committed to winning. We had a fighting chance in almost every game we played under Gibbs's watch. I was always on the edge of my seat. Compare that to the first half of this year, and the difference is like that between night and day.

And for one Sunday this team brought some fight back into their game. Let's hope they hang on to it, or perhaps even build on it.

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Postby djlash » Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:30 am

Some fairly obvious choices but I'm going to give it to Levi Jones. Although he had some help with the running back chipping he did a great job yesterday.

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Postby RedskinsFreak » Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:42 am

DEHog wrote:Different feel at the game yesterday, the Skins dispensed many VP’s yesterday. I was ask a few times how my game day experience was going…


Image

Their over-attention to this is mis-placed.

Al Davis had it right when he came up with the formula for the ultimate game-day experience:

"Just win, baby"

Our senses are grated and intelligence insulted by the loud explosions, out-of-place music, attempts to orchestrate our responses with scoreboard messages (on the most antiquated info display system in major pro sports) and obnoxious PA guy.

As luck would have it I got an on-field pass and it was great to see the side lines lined with military personnel Kudos to Snyder for being on the sideline and mingling with them!! My point is I know we need some change and while I don’t always agree with our FO…I do think they get it. In speaking with one of the VP’s I told them I believe much good will come from this year. I told them it shouldn’t take this to get them to threat the fans better, but much is learned during times of adversity.


They've "threat"ed the fans for a decade!!! ;) (It's a typo, I get it .. just couldn't pass that one up)

The way you expressed that should make an impression with the VP you talked with. Hopefully, it reaches the right ears.
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Postby DEHog » Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:51 am

RedskinsFreak wrote:
DEHog wrote:Different feel at the game yesterday, the Skins dispensed many VP’s yesterday. I was ask a few times how my game day experience was going…


Image

Their over-attention to this is mis-placed.

Al Davis had it right when he came up with the formula for the ultimate game-day experience:

"Just win, baby"

Our senses are grated and intelligence insulted by the loud explosions, out-of-place music, attempts to orchestrate our responses with scoreboard messages (on the most antiquated info display system in major pro sports) and obnoxious PA guy.

As luck would have it I got an on-field pass and it was great to see the side lines lined with military personnel Kudos to Snyder for being on the sideline and mingling with them!! My point is I know we need some change and while I don’t always agree with our FO…I do think they get it. In speaking with one of the VP’s I told them I believe much good will come from this year. I told them it shouldn’t take this to get them to threat the fans better, but much is learned during times of adversity.


They've "threat"ed the fans for a decade!!! ;) (It's a typo, I get it .. just couldn't pass that one up)

The way you expressed that should make an impression with the VP you talked with. Hopefully, it reaches the right ears.


Should be noted that it was all before we won...The real test we be when/if we start winning again..how they treat us...I'm not saying it changed my mind about anything but I'm hopeful (and if it takes) a season like this will help to change things...and as I said is shouldn't have to take a season like this to make it happen.
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