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fleetus
Hog
Joined: 25 Apr 2004
Posts: 1757
Location: Charlottesville, Va.
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| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:50 am Post subject: Why the Skins need to take Tyrone Smith |
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If he's available, you have to look at adding the book end to compliment Trent Williams.
Arguably, the Skins biggest needs are NT and OLB. Neither position has a player likely to be a good fit for the Redskins at #10. Not sold on Quinn as a 3-4 OLB, at least not as high as 10.
Most analysts are then predicting the Skins would draft for the next priorities, either DE or WR. Sure, you can have a dominant DE in the 3-4, but you don't need one. Many 3-4 DE's are road graders. For this reason, you draft them like offensive guards. When's the last time a team drafted a guard in the top 10? And is there even a dominant type 3-4 DEin this draft? Are they worth #10 when you could bolster position depth nicely with a 5th-6th round player.
WR is a definite need and I wouldn't be shocked or dismayed to see Jones taken #10. But, Shanahan needs to build a whole team here. Before you can expect the skill positions to develop you need a better offensive line. Jamaal Brown is not likely to make it through a full season again and his Pro Bowl days are probably past.
Draft Tyrone Smith and you are setting the stage to add a rookie QB in the 2nd round or next year. Solidifying both offensive tackles for the next 8-10 years is a good way to build a foundation for future success.
Last edited by fleetus on Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:18 am; edited 1 time in total |
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VetSkinsFan
One Step Away
Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 7779
Location: NoVA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:13 am Post subject: Re: Why the Skins need to take Tyrone Smith |
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| fleetus wrote: | If he's available, you have to look at adding the book end to compliment Trent Williams.
Arguably, the Skins biggest needs are NT and OLB. Neither position has a player likely to be a good fit for the Redskins at #10. Not sold on Quinn as a 3-4 OLB, at least not as high as 10.
Most analysts are then predicting the Skins would draft for the next priorities, either DE or WR. My problem with this logic is, that DE is just not a game changing type player in the 3-4. Sure, you can design a 3-4 around a dominant DE, but usually 3-4 DE's are road graders. For this reason, you draft them like offensive guards. When's the last time a team drafted a guard in the top 10?
WR is a definite need and I wouldn't be shocked to see Jones taken #10. But, Shanahan needs to build a team here. Before you can expect the offense to develop a passing game to benefit a guy like Jones, you need a better offensive line. Jamaal Brown is not likely to make it through a full season again and his Pro Bowl days are probably past.
Draft Tyrone Smith and you are setting the stage to add a rookie QB next year and solidifying the O-line for the next 8-10 years. |
We have Capers who dropped last year and we picked up in the 7th. And I think still think we need a WR looking at our depleted WR corps more than we need a RT, since the line started to come together (IMO, anyway) towards the end of the year. |
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fleetus
Hog
Joined: 25 Apr 2004
Posts: 1757
Location: Charlottesville, Va.
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| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:26 am Post subject: Re: Why the Skins need to take Tyrone Smith |
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| VetSkinsFan wrote: | | fleetus wrote: | If he's available, you have to look at adding the book end to compliment Trent Williams.
Arguably, the Skins biggest needs are NT and OLB. Neither position has a player likely to be a good fit for the Redskins at #10. Not sold on Quinn as a 3-4 OLB, at least not as high as 10.
Most analysts are then predicting the Skins would draft for the next priorities, either DE or WR. My problem with this logic is, that DE is just not a game changing type player in the 3-4. Sure, you can design a 3-4 around a dominant DE, but usually 3-4 DE's are road graders. For this reason, you draft them like offensive guards. When's the last time a team drafted a guard in the top 10?
WR is a definite need and I wouldn't be shocked to see Jones taken #10. But, Shanahan needs to build a team here. Before you can expect the offense to develop a passing game to benefit a guy like Jones, you need a better offensive line. Jamaal Brown is not likely to make it through a full season again and his Pro Bowl days are probably past.
Draft Tyrone Smith and you are setting the stage to add a rookie QB next year and solidifying the O-line for the next 8-10 years. |
We have Capers who dropped last year and we picked up in the 7th. And I think still think we need a WR looking at our depleted WR corps more than we need a RT, since the line started to come together (IMO, anyway) towards the end of the year. |
I agree with you for the most part. and I wouldn't mind seeing them draft Jones. But if given the choice between Jones or T. Smith, I would take Smith. Either would be a good addition, but I see Smith as a safer pick. OL's usually are pretty good bets, while WR's tend to be a real crap shoot in the top 10 of the draft. Also, I see Smith as an instant improvement, like Trent was last year. WR's usually take a few years to develop, when and IF they do.
Lastly, if you had to map out the future of building this team for success in 2-3 years, I think drafting two tackles and adding a free agent WR works better than anything else. You see good WR's in free agency all the time, but rarely does a Joe Thomas, Orlando Pace type guy become a free agent. You have to draft those guys. |
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skins2357
Hog
Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 669
Location: Columbia MD
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| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:35 am Post subject: |
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| I would rather a 25 year old Ryan Harris from Denver in free agency. I agree that we need to rebuild our O Line, but spending a 10 pick on a RT is ubsurd. If your going to draft a OL with the 10th pick in the draft, it better be a LT, because thats the only OL that warrants a pick that high. Im not saying not to draft Smith, but not a RT. Someone will draft Smith highly, and he will play LT, but I doubt abyone spends a top 15 pick on him them puts him on the right side. Sign Ryan Harris to a 4-5 year deal, and you'll have your bookends between him and Trent |
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VetSkinsFan
One Step Away
Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 7779
Location: NoVA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:30 am Post subject: Re: Why the Skins need to take Tyrone Smith |
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| fleetus wrote: | | VetSkinsFan wrote: | | fleetus wrote: | If he's available, you have to look at adding the book end to compliment Trent Williams.
Arguably, the Skins biggest needs are NT and OLB. Neither position has a player likely to be a good fit for the Redskins at #10. Not sold on Quinn as a 3-4 OLB, at least not as high as 10.
Most analysts are then predicting the Skins would draft for the next priorities, either DE or WR. My problem with this logic is, that DE is just not a game changing type player in the 3-4. Sure, you can design a 3-4 around a dominant DE, but usually 3-4 DE's are road graders. For this reason, you draft them like offensive guards. When's the last time a team drafted a guard in the top 10?
WR is a definite need and I wouldn't be shocked to see Jones taken #10. But, Shanahan needs to build a team here. Before you can expect the offense to develop a passing game to benefit a guy like Jones, you need a better offensive line. Jamaal Brown is not likely to make it through a full season again and his Pro Bowl days are probably past.
Draft Tyrone Smith and you are setting the stage to add a rookie QB next year and solidifying the O-line for the next 8-10 years. |
We have Capers who dropped last year and we picked up in the 7th. And I think still think we need a WR looking at our depleted WR corps more than we need a RT, since the line started to come together (IMO, anyway) towards the end of the year. |
I agree with you for the most part. and I wouldn't mind seeing them draft Jones. But if given the choice between Jones or T. Smith, I would take Smith. Either would be a good addition, but I see Smith as a safer pick. OL's usually are pretty good bets, while WR's tend to be a real crap shoot in the top 10 of the draft. Also, I see Smith as an instant improvement, like Trent was last year. WR's usually take a few years to develop, when and IF they do.
Lastly, if you had to map out the future of building this team for success in 2-3 years, I think drafting two tackles and adding a free agent WR works better than anything else. You see good WR's in free agency all the time, but rarely does a Joe Thomas, Orlando Pace type guy become a free agent. You have to draft those guys. |
I can accept that. The thing I can't shake is that we need more than 1 WR. We have 1 signed WR atm that has done anything at all for us. On the other side of the spectrum, look at the successful passing games in NO, SD, GB. They have 3-4 guys who could start on most clubs. We arguably could start 1 (I don't even know that we can count Armstrong as a shoe in for that category since he's just now in his sophomore year). And he's a FA, not even currently under contract.
I wouldn't be upset if we drafted a RT in the first as long as we address this glaring at WR agressively in some fashion. I know we're rebuilding, but we cannot completely neglect WR. We have to put an NFL caliber product on the field, even if it's not in the elite category. I can't get on board with throwing a season by not trying to partially address the gaping WR hole. To me, that's one fashion of throwing the season before it even starts. |
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fleetus
Hog
Joined: 25 Apr 2004
Posts: 1757
Location: Charlottesville, Va.
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| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:17 pm Post subject: Re: Why the Skins need to take Tyrone Smith |
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| VetSkinsFan wrote: | | fleetus wrote: | | VetSkinsFan wrote: | | fleetus wrote: | If he's available, you have to look at adding the book end to compliment Trent Williams.
Arguably, the Skins biggest needs are NT and OLB. Neither position has a player likely to be a good fit for the Redskins at #10. Not sold on Quinn as a 3-4 OLB, at least not as high as 10.
Most analysts are then predicting the Skins would draft for the next priorities, either DE or WR. My problem with this logic is, that DE is just not a game changing type player in the 3-4. Sure, you can design a 3-4 around a dominant DE, but usually 3-4 DE's are road graders. For this reason, you draft them like offensive guards. When's the last time a team drafted a guard in the top 10?
WR is a definite need and I wouldn't be shocked to see Jones taken #10. But, Shanahan needs to build a team here. Before you can expect the offense to develop a passing game to benefit a guy like Jones, you need a better offensive line. Jamaal Brown is not likely to make it through a full season again and his Pro Bowl days are probably past.
Draft Tyrone Smith and you are setting the stage to add a rookie QB next year and solidifying the O-line for the next 8-10 years. |
We have Capers who dropped last year and we picked up in the 7th. And I think still think we need a WR looking at our depleted WR corps more than we need a RT, since the line started to come together (IMO, anyway) towards the end of the year. |
I agree with you for the most part. and I wouldn't mind seeing them draft Jones. But if given the choice between Jones or T. Smith, I would take Smith. Either would be a good addition, but I see Smith as a safer pick. OL's usually are pretty good bets, while WR's tend to be a real crap shoot in the top 10 of the draft. Also, I see Smith as an instant improvement, like Trent was last year. WR's usually take a few years to develop, when and IF they do.
Lastly, if you had to map out the future of building this team for success in 2-3 years, I think drafting two tackles and adding a free agent WR works better than anything else. You see good WR's in free agency all the time, but rarely does a Joe Thomas, Orlando Pace type guy become a free agent. You have to draft those guys. |
I can accept that. The thing I can't shake is that we need more than 1 WR. We have 1 signed WR atm that has done anything at all for us. On the other side of the spectrum, look at the successful passing games in NO, SD, GB. They have 3-4 guys who could start on most clubs. We arguably could start 1 (I don't even know that we can count Armstrong as a shoe in for that category since he's just now in his sophomore year). And he's a FA, not even currently under contract.
I wouldn't be upset if we drafted a RT in the first as long as we address this glaring at WR agressively in some fashion. I know we're rebuilding, but we cannot completely neglect WR. We have to put an NFL caliber product on the field, even if it's not in the elite category. I can't get on board with throwing a season by not trying to partially address the gaping WR hole. To me, that's one fashion of throwing the season before it even starts. |
I hear ya. We have so many holes to fill and only 2 picks before round 5. There's no way it can all be done this year, so let's just hope they make these picks count and learn how to add more draft picks in the future (not give them away). |
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VetSkinsFan
One Step Away
Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 7779
Location: NoVA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:15 am Post subject: Re: Why the Skins need to take Tyrone Smith |
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| fleetus wrote: | | VetSkinsFan wrote: | | fleetus wrote: | | VetSkinsFan wrote: | | fleetus wrote: | If he's available, you have to look at adding the book end to compliment Trent Williams.
Arguably, the Skins biggest needs are NT and OLB. Neither position has a player likely to be a good fit for the Redskins at #10. Not sold on Quinn as a 3-4 OLB, at least not as high as 10.
Most analysts are then predicting the Skins would draft for the next priorities, either DE or WR. My problem with this logic is, that DE is just not a game changing type player in the 3-4. Sure, you can design a 3-4 around a dominant DE, but usually 3-4 DE's are road graders. For this reason, you draft them like offensive guards. When's the last time a team drafted a guard in the top 10?
WR is a definite need and I wouldn't be shocked to see Jones taken #10. But, Shanahan needs to build a team here. Before you can expect the offense to develop a passing game to benefit a guy like Jones, you need a better offensive line. Jamaal Brown is not likely to make it through a full season again and his Pro Bowl days are probably past.
Draft Tyrone Smith and you are setting the stage to add a rookie QB next year and solidifying the O-line for the next 8-10 years. |
We have Capers who dropped last year and we picked up in the 7th. And I think still think we need a WR looking at our depleted WR corps more than we need a RT, since the line started to come together (IMO, anyway) towards the end of the year. |
I agree with you for the most part. and I wouldn't mind seeing them draft Jones. But if given the choice between Jones or T. Smith, I would take Smith. Either would be a good addition, but I see Smith as a safer pick. OL's usually are pretty good bets, while WR's tend to be a real crap shoot in the top 10 of the draft. Also, I see Smith as an instant improvement, like Trent was last year. WR's usually take a few years to develop, when and IF they do.
Lastly, if you had to map out the future of building this team for success in 2-3 years, I think drafting two tackles and adding a free agent WR works better than anything else. You see good WR's in free agency all the time, but rarely does a Joe Thomas, Orlando Pace type guy become a free agent. You have to draft those guys. |
I can accept that. The thing I can't shake is that we need more than 1 WR. We have 1 signed WR atm that has done anything at all for us. On the other side of the spectrum, look at the successful passing games in NO, SD, GB. They have 3-4 guys who could start on most clubs. We arguably could start 1 (I don't even know that we can count Armstrong as a shoe in for that category since he's just now in his sophomore year). And he's a FA, not even currently under contract.
I wouldn't be upset if we drafted a RT in the first as long as we address this glaring at WR agressively in some fashion. I know we're rebuilding, but we cannot completely neglect WR. We have to put an NFL caliber product on the field, even if it's not in the elite category. I can't get on board with throwing a season by not trying to partially address the gaping WR hole. To me, that's one fashion of throwing the season before it even starts. |
I hear ya. We have so many holes to fill and only 2 picks before round 5. There's no way it can all be done this year, so let's just hope they make these picks count and learn how to add more draft picks in the future (not give them away). |
And that's the biggest thing I think. I can support any kind of intelligent, comprehensive plan that has a goal.
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SkinsJock
08 Champ
Joined: 24 Feb 2004
Posts: 11506
Location: New England
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:48 am Post subject: Re: Why the Skins need to take Tyrone Smith |
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| VetSkinsFan wrote: | | fleetus wrote: | | ... We have so many holes to fill and only 2 picks before round 5. There's no way it can all be done this year, so let's just hope they make these picks count and learn how to add more draft picks in the future (not give them away). |
And that's the biggest thing I think. I can support any kind of intelligent, comprehensive plan that has a goal. |
I think you both make good points here
HOWEVER, I think these guys will continue along the path that tries to make the most out of what they've got and that's a bit of a concern for me - I don't think we should be just looking at the positions of need (we have too many) - we should be doing what both of you have aluded to - we need to make really good choices and we we need a long term plan (admittedly with short term goals) NOT a short term, try and win now, concept - that's what Mike & Bruce seem to be trying here
we need to REALLY rebuild and look at getting that done over the next 2 drafts and this season and next - we need to try and add to our draft picks for both this draft and the next and not give any more picks away
we have an owner that might not like that plan but I hope these guys learn from the mistakes they have made since they came in and just bite the bulllet and really get this franchise on the right path which might be painful at first but will ensure success for the long term
we need to get a lot younger and start to build a good offensive line with depth and a defensive front 7 - this will take time - we have some young gems and we need to keep building through the draft and adding younger free agents NOT talented older players
the draft picks have to be good and we need as many as we can - those are 2 things we have not done well here  |
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1niksder
**********
Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Posts: 16571
Location: If I knew ... it would explain a lot but I've seen Homerville on a map, that wasn't helpful at all
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:28 am Post subject: Re: Why the Skins need to take Tyrone Smith |
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| VetSkinsFan wrote: | They have 3-4 guys who could start on most clubs. We arguably could start 1 (I don't even know that we can count Armstrong as a shoe in for that category since he's just now in his sophomore year). And he's a FA, not even currently under contract.
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On 1/5/2010 Armstrong signed a three-year deal, he will be a Restricted Free Agent in 2013 |
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TCIYM
Hog
Joined: 10 Apr 2009
Posts: 441
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:50 am Post subject: |
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| Tyron Smith may very well be a fine player, and I for one am diametrically opposed to drafting Julio Jones if Rex Grossman will be breaking him in, but right tackles are a dime a dozen and should never be drafted in the first round unless your quarterback is left-handed. There are several higher rated prospects expected to be on the board and the Redskins need damn near everything. I'd take a chance on Cam Newton before drafting a right tackle in the first round. |
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SkinsJock
08 Champ
Joined: 24 Feb 2004
Posts: 11506
Location: New England
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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IF we cannot trade out of this pick and IF Jones is available THEN we take him and go after Jake Locker with the 41st pick - Rex Grossman is not even under contract here yet (is he?) - I doubt these guys are looking at Rex as being anything more than a just a decent QB - he's not going to suddenly become a really good QB
hopefully we add to our draft picks - if we get very lucky with some free agents AND some very solid drafting in both this and next year's draft, we could start to get a little excited about this franchise again
until then I'm hoping that the FO and the talent evaluators can just start locating young players that will help at almost every position except TE and LT on offense - we have similar issues at a lot of positions on defense too
let's do this right and stop trying to use band-aids when major surgery is called for |
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TCIYM
Hog
Joined: 10 Apr 2009
Posts: 441
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Jake Locker won't be on the board when the #41 pick is on the clock. There is talk of Locker going as high as #12 to Minnesota. |
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TCIYM
Hog
Joined: 10 Apr 2009
Posts: 441
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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Insofar as Smith goes, there is this tidbit:
| Quote: | NFL.com's Gil Brandt says the Cowboys are "probably" going to draft USC OT Tyron Smith at No. 9 overall.
Brandt expects Wisconsin DE J.J. Watt to be Dallas' other consideration, though offensive tackle is a more valued position than 3-4 end. Brandt, like SI's Tony Pauline, is convinced that the Cowboys won't take Nebraska CB Prince Amukamara. Smith would likely play right tackle for the Cowboys, unless he proves a better pass protector than Doug Free right off the bat. Apr 11, 5:03 PM
Source: NFL.com |
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Countertrey
the 'mudge
Joined: 09 Jan 2004
Posts: 12767
Location: Curmudgeon Corner, Maine
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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| TCIYM wrote: | | Jake Locker won't be on the board when the #41 pick is on the clock. There is talk of Locker going as high as #12 to Minnesota. |
Frankly, I won't be surprised if Jake Locker goes as high as 10... just sayin... |
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TCIYM
Hog
Joined: 10 Apr 2009
Posts: 441
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Countertrey wrote: | | TCIYM wrote: | | Jake Locker won't be on the board when the #41 pick is on the clock. There is talk of Locker going as high as #12 to Minnesota. |
Frankly, I won't be surprised if Jake Locker goes as high as 10... just sayin... |
You may very well be onto something there. |
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