D'Angelo Hall Ticked, Addresses Pats Play

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Postby Red_One43 » Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:28 pm

The Hogster wrote:Red One wrote:

I have posted on these boards, Hall's stats after he got NFC Player of the Week and compared them to Asomugha and Revis and his stats come out good


Yeah, well I'll bet those guys aren't getting trashed and bashed by their own fans for mistakes. You hear that word? Mistake? Everyone makes them. Not everyone is forgiven apparently though.

We play Hall the kind of money that he is making to cover corners right. I think that we shuld expect players that make that kind of money to give 100% (Of course, I get that you are saying poor judgment).


We pay Hall to cover Wide Receivers. We are paying Reed Doughty and Dejon Gomes to cover Tight Ends like Gronk. Should Hall help his teammates? Absolutely. Does that play support Hall's comment that he thought he was being wrestled out of bounds and there was no need for him to deliver a kill shot? Yes. He was wrong of course, but wrong is different from not trying.

Look at 0:35 of the video and comment on that


Um, yes I have. Here goes again. It looks to me like Hall is in front of the play and two guys are hanging on him and riding him out of bounds like that bullrider. He pulled up assuming that those guys would finish the job. They didn't. Now he's the blame. Nice.
Try comparing Hall to Fletch - interesting that you don't go there.


I don't make that comparison because I don't have to. If we had 22 Fletchers we would be a dynasty. Maybe 5 players in the NFL can be compared to Fletcher. So, what's your point?

Not saying that you are one of these people, but I'm sick and tired of these arm chair cynical, sky is falling, over reacting Redskins fans who think that NFL players owe them something. They don't . They make mistakes and some make more than others. It's crazy to continue to get your panties in a bunch when a player lets you down every now and then. Name a player better in our secondary right now??? I'll wait. Give the dude some slack.

If you google that play, the national consensus is that it was a Beast Like play by Gronk. Only the Redskins nation, and the guys calling the game (aikman & buck) are making it a D Hall bash fest. Enjoy your company.


I am going to skip the Google because I heard what Hall's coach said about him on that play. That is all that counts for me.

As far as naming a better guy in our secondary, I think that Wilson is gaining respect as a pretty good cover guy. He has started out slow, but he was new to the defense. Would I say Wilson is better than Hall? I would put him over the opposing team's best reeiver before I put Hall. But this is not really the point. Saying that Hall is the best that we have means that we have a secondary that needs upgrading. As strongly as you want to defend him, we all know that he is not a cover corner and the chances of him improving are slim. Hall's days are numbered here, because when we get that cover guy, we can't afford to pay Hall and him. If he didn't talk so much trash, he wouldn't be singled out so much - you have to walk the walk if you talk the talk - everyone knows that.

I think that Hall responded well to whatever happened in the Pats game. He had a good/great game against the G men and didn't call attention to himself. No one is talking negative about his mouth, sportsmanship, or effort for the Giants game. I wanted to see him rebound from all the negative and have a good game - did. I posted earlier that I expect him to have a good three games with no incidents and I think that he will.

Will he be on the team next year? I wouldn't have a problem going after Grimes (Falcons) and dropping Hall, but I would understand us going after other positions and saving the CB for 2013 or drafting a young guy in the late rounds to develop or perhaps they see Thompson as that guy to develop.

Even though, I don't agree with you on interpreting the Gronk play, I do get the main thing that you are saying - Hall has value to this team - he ain't ain't all bad. I can agree with you on that.

As far as the criticism of him from Redskin fans, just like any Redskins, to include Grossman, Gano, Doughty, Rak, he is fair game. The Kerrigans, Rileys, Wilsons and the Fletchers all make mistakes too, but why don't folks criticize them like they do Hall - we all know the answer to that.

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Postby The Hogster » Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:43 am

DeAngelo Hall
Tackles: 85
Interceptions: 3
Passes Defended: 14
Forced Fumbles: 1

Darrell Revis
Tackles: 49
Interceptions: 4
Passes Defended: 14
Forced Fumbles: 0

Namdi Asogmua
Tackles: 49
Interceptions: 3
Passes Defended: 5
Forced Fumbles: 0

Charles Woodson
Tackles: 70
Interceptions: 7
Passes Defended: 16
Forced Fumbles: 1


DeAngelo Hall's 85 tackles leads this group of elite corners this year. His passes defended--14--is second to only Charles Woodson. Last season he finished with 95 tackles, 16 PD, 6 INT and a game winning Touchdown. Oh yeah, and he went to the Pro Bowl and was MVP getting another INT, and returning a fumble for a Touchdown. He could have checked out since that game means nothing but whatever.

Now, people with a bias against DeAngelo will surely discount these stats by saying he can't cover so he's in on more tackles by being thrown at more. That's only partially true. If you look inside the numbers, you will see that many of tackles by corners are made in run support.

Put simply, people HATE DeAngelo Hall mainly because of his personality and fits of stupidity in games. But, at the end of the day, the guy is a good corner and you people need to check yourselves. Football players are people. People have things about them that annoy other people. That matters if he's dating your daughter. But, when he's trying to help your football team win, you need to man up and pay more attention to what he does on the field.

If you dislike DeAngelo Hall, that's fine. Just say so. But, don't wait for him to screw up to take a huge crap on him to pass off your dislike for football reasons. It's a joke really.
Last edited by The Hogster on Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Chris Luva Luva » Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:27 am

That's a very telling group of stats.
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Postby mastdark81 » Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:51 am

@The HOGSTER great points.

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Postby riggofan » Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:29 pm

Nice stats HOGSTER. You killed it!
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Postby RayNAustin » Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:53 pm

The Hogster wrote:DeAngelo Hall
Tackles: 85
Interceptions: 3
Passes Defended: 14
Forced Fumbles: 1

Darrell Revis
Tackles: 49
Interceptions: 4
Passes Defended: 14
Forced Fumbles: 0

Namdi Asogmua
Tackles: 49
Interceptions: 3
Passes Defended: 5
Forced Fumbles: 0

Charles Woodson
Tackles: 70
Interceptions: 7
Passes Defended: 16
Forced Fumbles: 1


DeAngelo Hall's 85 tackles leads this group of elite corners this year. His passes defended--14--is second to only Charles Woodson. Last season he finished with 95 tackles, 16 PD, 6 INT and a game winning Touchdown. Oh yeah, and he went to the Pro Bowl and was MVP getting another INT, and returning a fumble for a Touchdown. He could have checked out since that game means nothing but whatever.

Now, people with a bias against DeAngelo will surely discount these stats by saying he can't cover so he's in on more tackles by being thrown at more. That's only partially true. If you look inside the numbers, you will see that many of tackles by corners are made in run support.

Put simply, people HATE DeAngelo Hall mainly because of his personality and fits of stupidity in games. But, at the end of the day, the guy is a good corner and you people need to check yourselves. Football players are people. People have things about them that annoy other people. That matters if he's dating your daughter. But, when he's trying to help your football team win, you need to man up and pay more attention to what he does on the field.

If you dislike DeAngelo Hall, that's fine. Just say so. But, don't wait for him to screw up to take a huge crap on him to pass off your dislike for football reasons. It's a joke really.


I like DeAngelo ... and I hope he remains a Redskin for years to come. I think he's an asset, and the best corner, as well as one of the best play makers on the team. And I've defended him when others have nitpicked his performances being undeservedly critical.

But in this instance ... he should have ADDED an assist to those otherwise stellar stats you highlighted. I don't think Hall is lazy ... nor do I think Hall shies away from contact (such as the case with Neon Deon). He just screwed up, and didn't finish the play, and the lack of effort was obvious.

So, I'd just like to see "ownership". You foul up, own it ... don't pretend, don't make excuses ... don't say "but I had a good game, and I don't know what all the fuss is about". There would be a lot less fussing, if there was a little more confessing.

And, I'm sorry, but blaming Doughty (6'1 210 lbs) and Gomes (5'11 200 lbs) for having trouble bring down Gronkowski (6'6 265 lbs) does not get Hall off the hook for standing there like a statue watching his team mates drug down the field by that HORSE.
Last edited by RayNAustin on Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Countertrey » Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:47 pm

^+1. Hall ordinarily does not shy away from contact near the sideline. The "it could result in an uneccesary roughness penalty" is a smokescreen... Hall should have thrown a shoulder, which WOULD have forced him out of bounds, and bailed out his team mates.

It's unfortunate that he didn't own it... but it's also not the end of the world. I'm still a fan.
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Postby SkinsJock » Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:53 pm

Countertrey wrote:^+1. Hall ordinarily does not shy away from contact near the sideline. The "it could result in an uneccesary roughness penalty" is a smokescreen... Hall should have thrown a shoulder, which WOULD have forced him out of bounds, and bailed out his team mates.

It's unfortunate that he didn't own it... but it's also not the end of the world. I'm still a fan.


+1 - he's still a good CB and I hope he's a part of the mix here next year as we get into a playoff race


I'm kind of excited about our defense and hopefully we'll get an offense that can score some points here
It's taken years for the Redskins to become as bad as we are - there is no way that the team is going to be consistently competitive in the near future, the problems here are complex - we'll win some games but it will take years to be good again

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Postby The Hogster » Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:09 pm

Revis Whiffing on Tebow. I wonder if their fans want to cut him after he's Tarred & Feathered.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlgMvml3v8o
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Postby Red_One43 » Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:47 pm

RayNAustin wrote:
The Hogster wrote:DeAngelo Hall
Tackles: 85
Interceptions: 3
Passes Defended: 14
Forced Fumbles: 1

Darrell Revis
Tackles: 49
Interceptions: 4
Passes Defended: 14
Forced Fumbles: 0

Namdi Asogmua
Tackles: 49
Interceptions: 3
Passes Defended: 5
Forced Fumbles: 0

Charles Woodson
Tackles: 70
Interceptions: 7
Passes Defended: 16
Forced Fumbles: 1


DeAngelo Hall's 85 tackles leads this group of elite corners this year. His passes defended--14--is second to only Charles Woodson. Last season he finished with 95 tackles, 16 PD, 6 INT and a game winning Touchdown. Oh yeah, and he went to the Pro Bowl and was MVP getting another INT, and returning a fumble for a Touchdown. He could have checked out since that game means nothing but whatever.

Now, people with a bias against DeAngelo will surely discount these stats by saying he can't cover so he's in on more tackles by being thrown at more. That's only partially true. If you look inside the numbers, you will see that many of tackles by corners are made in run support.

Put simply, people HATE DeAngelo Hall mainly because of his personality and fits of stupidity in games. But, at the end of the day, the guy is a good corner and you people need to check yourselves. Football players are people. People have things about them that annoy other people. That matters if he's dating your daughter. But, when he's trying to help your football team win, you need to man up and pay more attention to what he does on the field.

If you dislike DeAngelo Hall, that's fine. Just say so. But, don't wait for him to screw up to take a huge crap on him to pass off your dislike for football reasons. It's a joke really.


I like DeAngelo ... and I hope he remains a Redskin for years to come. I think he's an asset, and the best corner, as well as one of the best play makers on the team. And I've defended him when others have nitpicked his performances being undeservedly critical.

But in this instance ... he should have ADDED an assist to those otherwise stellar stats you highlighted. I don't think Hall is lazy ... nor do I think Hall shies away from contact (such as the case with Neon Deon). He just screwed up, and didn't finish the play, and the lack of effort was obvious.

So, I'd just like to see "ownership". You foul up, own it ... don't pretend, don't make excuses ... don't say "but I had a good game, and I don't know what all the fuss is about". There would be a lot less fussing, if there was a little more confessing.

And, I'm sorry, but blaming Doughty (6'1 210 lbs) and Gomes (5'11 200 lbs) for having trouble bring down Gronkowski (6'6 265 lbs) does not get Hall off the hook for standing there like a statue watching his team mates drug down the field by that HORSE.


+1

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Postby StorminMormon86 » Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:07 pm

The Hogster wrote:Where's everybody else genius? So, let me get this straight. Reed Doughty can get thrown around like a pre-school hall monitor and that's okay. Dejon Gomes can wrap up a 6'7 Tight End up around his neck like he's giving him a gentle caress. But, the only thing wrong with this picture is that DeAngelo Hall actually thought those two grown @$$ men ( who are bigger than him BTW) could have mustered up enough strength to nudge him 2 inches out of bounds?? Even if you look at the picture that I posted, the Referee has the whistle, ALL THE WAY IN HIS MOUTH.

Do I hear Reed Doughty and Dejon Gomes pissing and moaning constantly about how they should be cut because they're not producing at the level they're being paid? Do I have to listen to Doughty and Gomes repeatedly use improper grammar in just about every interview they give? Do Doughty and Gomes constantly try to shift the focus away from the team and force it on themselves? Didn't Doughty and Gomes man up and admit their mistakes?
The Hogster wrote:Dude, get a life. Man up.

What exactly am i "maning up" to? Are you referring to my fear of heights, or my cautious nature when I approach the diving board at a swimming pool? I'm not sure I follow you.
The Hogster wrote:Watch the video posted earlier. At 13 seconds, it's clear that not only Hall, but Barry Cofield and Stephen Bowen were nearby and they pulled up too. That play was a fluke. It could have been blown dead as long as Gronk stood there slinging off two grown men like fleas. And, if you look at the 33-37 second frames you'll see Gronk's foot was barely away from the line. You sound extra whiny going out of your way to blame D Hall for not helping 2 OTHER MEN do their jobs.

I need to get a life, yet you're the one who's probably been sitting at your computer for hours on end clicking and dragging the timeline over and over again to make sure you had the clear cut "evidence" that proves your point that your hero, DeAngelo Hall is our Lord and saviour.
The Hogster wrote:There is plenty of blame to go around on that play, yet you're giving it all to Hall. I smell an agenda.

I smell man crush.

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Postby The Hogster » Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:11 pm

StorminMormon86 wrote:
The Hogster wrote:Where's everybody else genius? So, let me get this straight. Reed Doughty can get thrown around like a pre-school hall monitor and that's okay. Dejon Gomes can wrap up a 6'7 Tight End up around his neck like he's giving him a gentle caress. But, the only thing wrong with this picture is that DeAngelo Hall actually thought those two grown @$$ men ( who are bigger than him BTW) could have mustered up enough strength to nudge him 2 inches out of bounds?? Even if you look at the picture that I posted, the Referee has the whistle, ALL THE WAY IN HIS MOUTH.

Do I hear Reed Doughty and Dejon Gomes pissing and moaning constantly about how they should be cut because they're not producing at the level they're being paid? Do I have to listen to Doughty and Gomes repeatedly use improper grammar in just about every interview they give? Do Doughty and Gomes constantly try to shift the focus away from the team and force it on themselves? Didn't Doughty and Gomes man up and admit their mistakes?
The Hogster wrote:Dude, get a life. Man up.

What exactly am i "maning up" to? Are you referring to my fear of heights, or my cautious nature when I approach the diving board at a swimming pool? I'm not sure I follow you.
The Hogster wrote:Watch the video posted earlier. At 13 seconds, it's clear that not only Hall, but Barry Cofield and Stephen Bowen were nearby and they pulled up too. That play was a fluke. It could have been blown dead as long as Gronk stood there slinging off two grown men like fleas. And, if you look at the 33-37 second frames you'll see Gronk's foot was barely away from the line. You sound extra whiny going out of your way to blame D Hall for not helping 2 OTHER MEN do their jobs.

I need to get a life, yet you're the one who's probably been sitting at your computer for hours on end clicking and dragging the timeline over and over again to make sure you had the clear cut "evidence" that proves your point that your hero, DeAngelo Hall is our Lord and saviour.
The Hogster wrote:There is plenty of blame to go around on that play, yet you're giving it all to Hall. I smell an agenda.

I smell man crush.


Yawn Yawn Yawn Yawn Yawn
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Postby Countertrey » Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:50 pm

Gentlemens, gentlemens, gentlemens... If'n we want to get hos-tile with each other... let's move it to smack. Otherwise, we'd appreciate turning it back a notch...
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Postby Red_One43 » Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:04 pm

The Hogster wrote:Revis Whiffing on Tebow. I wonder if their fans want to cut him after he's Tarred & Feathered.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlgMvml3v8o


C'mon man, that wasn't Revis. That was none other than Neon Deon.

Great comeback with that vid, Hogster. I love it.

However, you know why the Jet fan base doesn't criticize Revis like Hall - Revis walks the walk, but yet he rarely talks. If Hall's, gifted and talented self (absolutely no sarcasm here, Hall has the physical ability to be as good as Revis) were to cover receivers like Revis, he could talk all he wants - just like Randy Moss, the King of Lack of Effort and few people would care.


Revis responding to Jag receiver, Jason Hill, who said that Revis was over hyped:
"I don't even know who that dude is. What's his name again? I have no clue. I don't know who he is, whatever he said is what he said. Whatever his opinion is of us, we'll find out on Sunday. I don't care what he says, I don't know him. He don't know me, he don't know the Jets, so he'll find out on Sunday."


Revis doesn't have to blow smoke, he just goes out on the field and performs. People respect that: But for whiffiing on Tebow. He should be criticized for that play.

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Postby Red_One43 » Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:17 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:That's a very telling group of stats.


DeAngelo Hall
Tackles: 85
Interceptions: 3 0 TD
Passes Defended: 14
Forced Fumbles: 1

Darrell Revis
Tackles: 49
Interceptions: 4 1 TD
Passes Defended: 14
Forced Fumbles: 0

Namdi Asogmua
Tackles: 49
Interceptions: 3 0 TD
Passes Defended: 5
Forced Fumbles: 0

Charles Woodson
Tackles: 70
Interceptions: 7 1 TD
Passes Defended: 16
Forced Fumbles: 1

Added these Stats for Comparison purposes:

Josh Wilson
Tackles: 56
Interceptions: 2 0 TD
Passes Defended: 15
Forced Fumbles: 0

Jason McCourty - TN
Tackles: 90
Ints: 2 0 TD
Passes Defended: 10
Forced Fumbles: 1

Charles Tillman CHI
Tackles: 88
INTS: 2 1 TD
PD: 13
FF: 3

Kyle Arrington NE
Tackles: 77
INTS: 7 0 TD
PD: 19
FF: 0

Devin McCourty NE
Tackles: 73
INTS: 0
PD: 0
FF: 0

I have added Wilson who I think is developing into a good corner for us. I also added the the rest of the top four CBs in tackles (includes Hall at #3). I also included D.McCourty NE as to show a tandem along with Hall and Wilson. Added INT TDs to the mix. I added all of those players and the TDS to see what conclusions I could come up with the stats posted by Hogster.

What do you find that is very telling about the stats posted by Hogster?

I find that without including "missed tackles" or "completion yardage against" such as the burn rate below, the stats do not tell us who is the best corner. Is Arrington with 77 tackles and 7 INTS better than Hall? These stats don't prove it - all they say is he is having a better season and get him recognition for the pro bowl.

I do give Hall his credit as a corner that will step up and make that tackle where a lot of corners will not.

What do you think about the Burn Rate pass defense analysis? I assume another one will come out for 2011 when the season is done. As you review it, you will see that Hall's ranking matches how he plays in man coverage.

Thanks to our friends at STATS, Inc., we have the "Burn Rate" for each NFL pass defender in 2010 — the percentage of targets for every defender that resulted in catches. These numbers do bring out many of the best and worst players and the film generally agrees,


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