What the Redskins gave up to get RGIII

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Postby Irn-Bru » Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:49 am

CanesSkins26 wrote:
crazyhorse1 wrote:
cowboykillerzRED wrote:Rgiii pro day right? Why else go.there lol


I'll be disappointed if we have to settle for Luck (That's a statement I never thought I'd make.)


Insanity. As good as RGIII is, Luck is the top player in this draft. Luck has been compared to Elway, and you'd be disappointed? Smh


I think you and I might be the only people left on THN who think Luck is the better player to pick. :lol:
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Postby KazooSkinsFan » Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:18 am

Irn-Bru wrote:
CanesSkins26 wrote:Insanity. As good as RGIII is, Luck is the top player in this draft. Luck has been compared to Elway, and you'd be disappointed? Smh


I think you and I might be the only people left on THN who think Luck is the better player to pick. :lol:


Make that three of us. People think we're getting RG3 and get invested in that. There's nothing wrong with that. If we got Luck, after an initial shock they'd get behind Luck. That would be except the ones who are never satisfied with anything, but they'll be that way regardless as well.
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Postby Countertrey » Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:30 am

Frankly, the likely difference in long term production looks to be pretty slim. I think Luck, because of his build and the fact that he is somewhat less mobile (relative to RGIII... not to most quarterbacks) is somewhat less likely to suffer a major injury (he is slightly less likely to place himself in a dangerous situation). In terms of a career run, I think that's the biggest difference between the two.

Unlike, however. most highly mobile quarterbacks, who's production wanes as they age, RGIII is likely to just become a more proficient pocket passer.

Yet, Luck is a higly athletic, and highly mobile quarterback, as well. He is well suited to the type of offense the Shanahan's run, but can also fit perfectly into a more pocket focused scheme...

I really don't think we can go wrong, here... nor can the Colts. This is win-win, all around.

It could not possibly be a better situation, because, really, IT DOES NOT MATTER which we get...

How unusual. In any other season, Luck would be considered remarkable, not only because he is a highly talented, NFL ready quarterback, but also because he is incredibly dynamic, and adds a huge intangible to any team... but because the other highly touted quarterback in the draft is a bit more "exciting", folks who prefer that dynamic would be "disappointed".

People... the differences are really incremental. Which ever we get, is a win, as possibly one of the best quarterbacks to enter the league in many years. I think these two will be compared to each other... like P Manning and T Brady... for many years.
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Postby Irn-Bru » Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:35 am

Edit: I just realized I misread your post and we are making the exact same argument. :lol:

That's OK . . . a little redundancy never hurt anyone . . . :whistle:

Countertrey wrote:Frankly, the likely difference in long term production looks to be pretty slim. I think Luck, because of his build and the fact that he is somewhat less mobile (relative to RGIII... not to most quarterbacks) is somewhat less likely to suffer a major injury (he is slightly less likely to place himself in a dangerous situation). In terms of a career run, I think that's the biggest difference between the two.


Hmm. Are great pocket passer QBs or great mobile QBs more likely to sustain serious injury? I submit that historically it's been the mobile QBs. The great pocket passers tend to be quick on decision making and either make their throw or get rid of it before the crap hits the fan. Mobile QBs tend to extend plays because they're physically able to pull it off . . . but it's those situations where the injuries are more likely to occur.

Just my nonscientific take on it, though I'm sure someone has collected data on this topic, somewhere.
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Postby Redskin in Canada » Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:39 am

I am beginning to feel a shift from Luck to RGIII in the opinion polls EVERYWHERE as the legitimate top pick in the Draft.

If RGIII has an outstanding Workout today, we might even not get him.

The consolation price is good, however. NOBODY ever thought REALISTICALLY that we had a chance at Luck at all.

Frankly, I would be happy with either player. I lean towards Luck as the safest choice. Both are great character guys and very similar in athletic ability.

Growth? Quite frankly, the Skins offer a much better opportunity for growth and available weapons than Indy. So, whoever lands with us will be in a better position.
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Postby Countertrey » Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:41 am

Irn-Bru wrote:
Countertrey wrote:Frankly, the likely difference in long term production looks to be pretty slim. I think Luck, because of his build and the fact that he is somewhat less mobile (relative to RGIII... not to most quarterbacks) is somewhat less likely to suffer a major injury (he is slightly less likely to place himself in a dangerous situation). In terms of a career run, I think that's the biggest difference between the two.


Hmm. Are great pocket passer QBs or great mobile QBs more likely to sustain serious injury? I submit that historically it's been the mobile QBs. The great pocket passers tend to be quick on decision making and either make their throw or get rid of it before the crap hits the fan. Mobile QBs tend to extend plays because they're physically able to pull it off . . . but it's those situations where the injuries are more likely to occur.

Just my nonscientific take on it, though I'm sure someone has collected data on this topic, somewhere.
I think I said that (perhaps not as clearly as I wanted). Luck is more likely to work from the pocket, for two reasons. 1. he is taller than RGII, meaning that he will have fewer difficulties with poor passing lanes. 2. The Shanahan scheme loves to move the quarterback around.

Keep in mind that the differences between the two are pretty small... with the most significant being Luck's far more substantial build. OTOH, Luck is highly mobile, and willing to take off when it's called for.
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Postby Irn-Bru » Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:45 am

See my edit, CT.

:oops:
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Postby the poster » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:06 am

Redskin in Canada wrote:I am beginning to feel a shift from Luck to RGIII in the opinion polls EVERYWHERE as the legitimate top pick in the Draft.

If RGIII has an outstanding Workout today, we might even not get him.

The consolation price is good, however. NOBODY ever thought REALISTICALLY that we had a chance at Luck at all.

Frankly, I would be happy with either player. I lean towards Luck as the safest choice. Both are great character guys and very similar in athletic ability.



Look at the Heisman Trophy ceremony. Luck is sitting next to Griffin. Luck is big, looks like an NFL quarterback. For all the scouting I've heard about Griffin, almost all of it positive, he still physically looks like a college kid. Luck is much bigger than him.

Griffin's problem in the NFL will be durability. Plus he's going to a team that has lost a considerable amount of its immediate cap space and has no high draft picks this year, next year or the year after to help him.

And they probably need to upgrade in no less than 10 positions on the field not including depth.

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Postby KazooSkinsFan » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:15 am

Redskin in Canada wrote:The consolation price is good, however. NOBODY ever thought REALISTICALLY that we had a chance at Luck at all


As long as it's RG3 passing Luck and not Luck falling because he's disappointing somehow, it would work.
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Postby KazooSkinsFan » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:17 am

the poster wrote:Look at the Heisman Trophy ceremony. Luck is sitting next to Griffin. Luck is big, looks like an NFL quarterback. For all the scouting I've heard about Griffin, almost all of it positive, he still physically looks like a college kid. Luck is much bigger than him.

Griffin's problem in the NFL will be durability. Plus he's going to a team that has lost a considerable amount of its immediate cap space and has no high draft picks this year, next year or the year after to help him.

And they probably need to upgrade in no less than 10 positions on the field not including depth.


Thanks! This post is a nice summary of the patently obvious that everyone with a passing interest in NFL football already knows. It's sort of like knocking on someone's front door to inform them they have an Azalea bush in their front yard. Um...thanks...
Last edited by KazooSkinsFan on Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby SkinsJock » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:19 am

Andrew Luck and RG3 are both going to be future greats

Andrew Luck seems to be ready to play in the NFL, now - RG3 may require a little more time
The Redskins will start RG3 unless he shows that he's not ready OR .. the O line is not capable of protecting him well

the reason I'd prefer RG3 is that he offers the offense a more exciting QB
Luck looks to offer more of a QB that will be versatile but not as dangerous as RG3


RG3 offers a QB that has a great arm AND great legs

Andrew Luck is a proto typical QB - RG3 is a proto typical QB with GREAT mobility

I would be really surprised if the Colts did not take Andrew Luck - we would still be VERY pleased if they took RG3
but I think that we are better off with RG3
We are very fortunate to have Kirk Cousins but Griffin has a huge upside IMO

Robert needs to continue to get better and to do that he needs time on the field - hopefully sooner than later

HAIL


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Postby KazooSkinsFan » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:23 am

SkinsJock wrote:Andrew Luck and RG3 are both going to be future greats


Given a choice, I'd take Luck without blinking. I'll be 100% perfectly happy with Griffin. It'll be nice when the draft is over and this is settled.
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Proverb: Failure is not falling down. Failure is not getting up again

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Postby SkinsJock » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:24 am

:oops: did I sound a bit repetitive

I started the post at 8am and should have cut it back before submitting ... oh well


OH - I still hope we get RG3 :lol:
We are very fortunate to have Kirk Cousins but Griffin has a huge upside IMO

Robert needs to continue to get better and to do that he needs time on the field - hopefully sooner than later

HAIL


Week 2 - 17-15

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Postby Countertrey » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:24 am

the poster wrote:
Redskin in Canada wrote:I am beginning to feel a shift from Luck to RGIII in the opinion polls EVERYWHERE as the legitimate top pick in the Draft.

If RGIII has an outstanding Workout today, we might even not get him.

The consolation price is good, however. NOBODY ever thought REALISTICALLY that we had a chance at Luck at all.

Frankly, I would be happy with either player. I lean towards Luck as the safest choice. Both are great character guys and very similar in athletic ability.



Look at the Heisman Trophy ceremony. Luck is sitting next to Griffin. Luck is big, looks like an NFL quarterback. For all the scouting I've heard about Griffin, almost all of it positive, he still physically looks like a college kid. Luck is much bigger than him.

Griffin's problem in the NFL will be durability. Plus he's going to a team that has lost a considerable amount of its immediate cap space and has no high draft picks this year, next year or the year after to help him.

And they probably need to upgrade in no less than 10 positions on the field not including depth.

We have made essentially the same point about durability...

OTOH... "upgrade in no less than 10 positions"??? We need to upgrade at FB? We need to upgrade at RB/TB? We need to upgrade at TE? We need to upgrade at LT? We need to upgrade at OLB? We need to upgrade at DE? Seriously? Beyond that re-signing 59 will take care of ILB. NT could stand an upgrade... but it's passable as is... I won't argue regarding OL... but, despite the hollering, it was pretty good, once they had some time together... enough that there were a few 100 yard games... so, I won't panic about that. WR remains to be seen... though it is one plenty fast group. I'm more concerned about the DB's and #59
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Postby riggofan » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:34 am

Redskin in Canada wrote:I am beginning to feel a shift from Luck to RGIII in the opinion polls EVERYWHERE as the legitimate top pick in the Draft.


You're not wrong about that. Merrill Hoge is kind of intentionally contrary sometimes. But he likes RGIII as the better pick of the two:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... over-luck/

For the record, I'll be ecstatic to land either of these guys. I wonder which team these two players prefer. If you were RGIII or Andrew Luck would you rather be drafted by the Skins or Colts this year?

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