What the Redskins gave up to get RGIII

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Postby SkinsJock » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:42 am

Some fans are going to be VERY surprised when they see the difference between what RG3 was like in November of 2011 and September of 2012

Some fans are going to be VERY surprised when they see that RG3 uses his mobility to extend the time needed to make the play work and NOT try using his legs and take off running


RG3 and Andrew Luck want to use their arms first and their legs as a means to extend the play - neither wants to run but both can

RG3 will benefit a lot with NFL coaching and weight training

The are BOTH very smart players and are both very aware of all that they need to do to get ready to play in the NFL
Getting our QB back will help a lot but we still have a lot of issues to address

Players and coaches need to believe that they can be successful - they are not playing with that attitude - big changes are coming

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RGIII

Postby rskin72 » Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:17 pm

First, I concur that The Poster is a bit off on the amount of talent we need to replace/fill this season. Depth is more of a concern for me (especially O Line).....and, of course, secondary help.

Second, it is amazing on what a very good/great QB can produce, and what blemishes he can cover up....refer to loss of Peyton Manning last season in Indy, and impact of Tom Brady the past season on covering up woeful D.

Finally, as I have mentioned in other posts, I am all in on RGIII......maybe I have skewed wrong, but in seeing him play vice Luck, I far and away prefer RGIII......regardless of the system.

The problem that Cunningham, Vick, and others had in the NFL was that they were run first QB's....heck, Vick admitted that until this past season, he had not really studied defenses that well. I do NOT think that RGIII is in that mold.

Look at history. Remember Fran Tarkenton? Fran, for those that remember, was a HIGHLY successful QB (3 SB appearances) who would roll out and extend plays....use his legs to create options. But, he would throw first, run second. How about S. Young, Drew Brees, or even Big Ben? All used their ability to get out of the pocket to evade pass rushers and extend plays. Others, like Cunningham, V. Young, Vick, were/are run first QB's.

I percive that RGIII could potentially be the next S Young, F. Tarkenton or D. Brees. I am not concerned that he is two whole inches shorter than Luck. Again, check physical stats for players mentioned above....

Would I be sad with Luck.....no.....but I have been on the RGIII bandwagon for a long time......even mentioned it to Larry Michael when I saw him at a restaurant in Tysons Corner a month ago. Just prefer him over Luck. Hope that
a. Skins get him in the Draft
b. The hype is well deserved
c. We meet the Colts in a SB with Luck facing off against RGIII......and RGIII comes out on top!
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Postby DarthMonk » Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:31 pm

the poster wrote:Look at the Heisman Trophy ceremony. Luck is sitting next to Griffin. Luck is big, looks like an NFL quarterback. For all the scouting I've heard about Griffin, almost all of it positive, he still physically looks like a college kid. Luck is much bigger than him.


Part of one of your better posts. You are overstating your case though - I think - so I will overstate mine with this pic:

Image

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Postby Countertrey » Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:20 pm

rskin72 said:
I percive that RGIII could potentially be the next S Young, F. Tarkenton or D. Brees. I am not concerned that he is two whole inches shorter than Luck. Again, check physical stats for players mentioned above....


I get your point... the only problem is, I think RGIII is not of that mold... I think he is a new kind of quarterback. Similar to those you mention above, but his incredible athleticism puts him in a new level... Watching him, I see athleticism that far exceeds those you mentioned... much more like those run first quarterbacks you also described... at the same time, he has a cannon arm that may be able to accurately place the ball 65 yards downfield. He has beautiful footwork, and balls leap from his hand in the medium game, with nice touch in the short and fade game. He is super smart, and likes to study.

It's early... but I won't be surprised if, in 4 years, we struggle to find a quarterback to compare him with. I think he's walking in virgin soil. He is the first of a kind. The perfect WCO quarterback. Defensive tactics that work with Mike Vick will result in lethal downfield strikes because of his real desire to complete passes. Defensive tactics that give Tom Brady a headache will simply give him a reason to go somewhere else on the field to throw his pass.

He is super confident, and consumately humble. He is a clever innovator, and a master of the tried and true. He is Superman... but drives a Chrysler Pacifica. Sir and Ma'am are among the most frequently words in his vocabulary, but he's not going to forget about celebrating a big play.

I just hope Jim Irsay keeps true to form, and does not take the relatively small risk involved in taking on this young man. I think he knows that the tried and true offensive philosophy that he prefers cannot possibly take advantage of the opportunities that an RGIII provides.

People, I am absolutely hyping this kid, because he has me completely hyped. I admit, I am over the edge. I don't ever recall seeing the offensive potential this player represents in Burgundy and Gold... and I have seen some damned fine players. Yes... I think he may be Sonny Jurgenson with dreds and legs... and, I think he was born to quarterback Mike Shanahan's offense.

... and, Mr Irsay... How about that Andrew Luck! Looked pretty darned good today, huh?
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RGIII expectations

Postby rskin72 » Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:51 pm

Countertrey......actually I agree with your post that maybe RGIII could herald in a new era of QB's....but we have all heard that before, and I am trying desperately not to dive off the deep end, drink the kool-aid..etc.... on either Luck or RGIII. Am trying to keep in perspective that pundits have often been wrong before, and we have been horribly wrong on QB draft choices in the past (see Heath Shuler). Also, with only a few exceptions, rookie QB's require time to learn NFL, time to learn teammates, and time to absorb differences in college/NFL game.

Like you, am hoping that Luck is the man in Indy. I know some Colt fans who are on team websites, and everything they are reading would tend to support the Luck first pick vice RGIII.

By the way, after I heard that we were drafting second, I reupped for season Tickets......in hopes of seeing RGIII in B&G.....

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Re: RGIII

Postby the poster » Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:25 pm

rskin72 wrote:First, I concur that The Poster is a bit off on the amount of talent we need to replace/fill this season. Depth is more of a concern for me (especially O Line).....and, of course, secondary help.


Finally, as I have mentioned in other posts, I am all in on RGIII......maybe I have skewed wrong, but in seeing him play vice Luck, I far and away prefer RGIII......regardless of the system.

The problem that Cunningham, Vick, and others had in the NFL was that they were run first QB's....heck, Vick admitted that until this past season, he had not really studied defenses that well. I do NOT think that RGIII is in that


well I do have to admit to understanding the excitement in drafting either one of these quarterbacks. it is a lot of draft picks to give up but both of these qbs have the chance to not just be good but to be great. so I can see why redskin fans can be excited about the possibilities of the great plays from behind center.

talent wise around whoever the qb is? my position hasn't changed on that. still somewhere between weak and mediocre. I for one believe stats are garbage and I don't use them. there's a few sites out there that I'm sure you're aware of like proffootballfocus that concentrate not on the marketable stats that you put on the back of a bubble gum card but those that matter when truly evaluating a player, rank the redskins offensive Line 27th out of 32 teams with a right side grade of below professional quality linemen. that's not good. unfortunately, Chad Reinhart , a former redskins draft offensive lineman of all things who is now a buffalo bill graded out as one of the top right guards in football last year. what a loss that is.

so, bottom line is yes I think it's great they're getting their guy behind center. but rookie qbs need a lot of help. take the high draft pick qbs (the guys like Eli manning) who were considered can't miss and look at their rookie seasons. I'll tell u this, because I'm kinda close to it, he was into his 4th season and people were ready to give up on him..that's how long it took. of course, the giants are outstanding and finding talent. the redskins are going to have to be as well. their gonna have to find their victor cruzs too.

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Re: RGIII expectations

Postby skinsfan#33 » Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:17 am

rskin72 wrote:Am trying to keep in perspective that pundits have often been wrong before, and we have been horribly wrong on QB draft choices in the past (see Heath Shuler).
HTTR


I can't ever remember two QBs coming out at the same time where no one has really found anything bad to say about either. When Heath and Dilfer were coming out I can remember feeling the same way about them as I have about the past five or six Presidential Elections. I felt are you serious? This is it? This is the best we have to choose from? We're screwed! There were holes in both of there games and some serious red flags (How about Heath's wonderlic score matching his jersey number :shock: ).

From everything I have seen and heard about Luck and Griffin is good to great! If we had choices like this in our next general election, maybe the future of our country would have a rosier view, but instead we have Obama and whatever donk the GOP decides to roll out! It is enough to make you want to :puke:

I am much more confident in the future of the Skins (and Colts) than I am in the future of our country. Makes me happy and furious all at the same time!
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Postby markshark84 » Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:06 am

Countertrey wrote:rskin72 said:
I percive that RGIII could potentially be the next S Young, F. Tarkenton or D. Brees. I am not concerned that he is two whole inches shorter than Luck. Again, check physical stats for players mentioned above....


I get your point... the only problem is, I think RGIII is not of that mold... I think he is a new kind of quarterback. Similar to those you mention above, but his incredible athleticism puts him in a new level... Watching him, I see athleticism that far exceeds those you mentioned... much more like those run first quarterbacks you also described... at the same time, he has a cannon arm that may be able to accurately place the ball 65 yards downfield. He has beautiful footwork, and balls leap from his hand in the medium game, with nice touch in the short and fade game. He is super smart, and likes to study.

It's early... but I won't be surprised if, in 4 years, we struggle to find a quarterback to compare him with. I think he's walking in virgin soil. He is the first of a kind. The perfect WCO quarterback. Defensive tactics that work with Mike Vick will result in lethal downfield strikes because of his real desire to complete passes. Defensive tactics that give Tom Brady a headache will simply give him a reason to go somewhere else on the field to throw his pass.

He is super confident, and consumately humble. He is a clever innovator, and a master of the tried and true. He is Superman... but drives a Chrysler Pacifica. Sir and Ma'am are among the most frequently words in his vocabulary, but he's not going to forget about celebrating a big play.

I just hope Jim Irsay keeps true to form, and does not take the relatively small risk involved in taking on this young man. I think he knows that the tried and true offensive philosophy that he prefers cannot possibly take advantage of the opportunities that an RGIII provides.

People, I am absolutely hyping this kid, because he has me completely hyped. I admit, I am over the edge. I don't ever recall seeing the offensive potential this player represents in Burgundy and Gold... and I have seen some damned fine players. Yes... I think he may be Sonny Jurgenson with dreds and legs... and, I think he was born to quarterback Mike Shanahan's offense.

... and, Mr Irsay... How about that Andrew Luck! Looked pretty darned good today, huh?


I think you make very good points here -- some of the best I have heard thus far. That said, I tend to also agree with another poster that stated the "new era" of QB has been over-played.

Year after year SBs are won by similar style QBs. Manning, Rodgers, Brees, Roth, Manning, Brady, etc. You would have to go back close to 20 years to Steve Young to find a QB that was not a pocket-QB. That is the main reason I do not buy into the "new breed of QB" -- because the old breed is the one that consistently wins SBs.

That said, I believe that RGIII can be a QB very similar to a Steve Young. Luck, though, fits right in with the other SBs QBs in terms of style.
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Postby the poster » Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:06 pm

SkinsJock wrote:Some fans are going to be VERY surprised when they see the difference between what RG3 was like in November of 2011 and September of 2012



Well, Redskins don't have RG3 or Andrew Luck for that matter, just yet. Gregg Williams involvments during his time with the Redskins is about to become a huge story. Might be bigger than his time with the Saints.

Stories are coming out , as you read this, that may very well prompt the NFL to re-open their investigation of the team. In fact, these allegations are serious enough where they could be stripped of draft picks this season if not next season as well.

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/03/ ... ashington/

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Postby Chris Luva Luva » Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:40 pm

Countertrey wrote: is a new kind of quarterback. Similar to those you mention above, but his incredible athleticism puts him in a new level... Watching him, I see athleticism that far exceeds those you mentioned... much more like those run first quarterbacks you also described... at the same time, he has a cannon arm that may be able to accurately place the ball 65 yards downfield. He has beautiful footwork, and balls leap from his hand in the medium game, with nice touch in the short and fade game. He is super smart, and likes to study.



I agree. I tried to express this a few weeks ago, but I wasn't able to describe it as eloquently. In all fairness to Cam, he may have been the first of this mold... A more "complete", Mike Vick.

For those of you can put your feelings in your purses for a second. Vick is/was an amazing talent. It's taken him years to improve his QB'S skills, these new kids are coming in with arms, legs, vision and comprehension. That's going to be dangerous!
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Postby DarthMonk » Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:46 pm

the poster wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:Some fans are going to be VERY surprised when they see the difference between what RG3 was like in November of 2011 and September of 2012



Well, Redskins don't have RG3 or Andrew Luck for that matter, just yet. Gregg Williams involvments during his time with the Redskins is about to become a huge story. Might be bigger than his time with the Saints.

Stories are coming out , as you read this, that may very well prompt the NFL to re-open their investigation of the team. In fact, these allegations are serious enough where they could be stripped of draft picks this season if not next season as well.

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/03/ ... ashington/


If the commish were to take our 1st rounder this year he would be taking his life in his hands.

He didn't even do that to the Saints.

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Postby Mississippiskinsfan2 » Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:53 pm

DarthMonk wrote:
the poster wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:Some fans are going to be VERY surprised when they see the difference between what RG3 was like in November of 2011 and September of 2012



Well, Redskins don't have RG3 or Andrew Luck for that matter, just yet. Gregg Williams involvments during his time with the Redskins is about to become a huge story. Might be bigger than his time with the Saints.

Stories are coming out , as you read this, that may very well prompt the NFL to re-open their investigation of the team. In fact, these allegations are serious enough where they could be stripped of draft picks this season if not next season as well.

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/03/ ... ashington/


If the commish were to take our 1st rounder this year he would be taking his life in his hands.

He didn't even do that to the Saints.

DarthMonk


For one we dont know if the NFL knew about these "stories" or not and it really doesnt matter if the redskins didnt know anything about all of this

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Postby Countertrey » Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:10 pm

The Commissioner's office has already stated that they have cleared the Redskins. It's also pretty clear, at this point, that Gibbs knew nothing (I have been convinced of that, btw).

Of course, this all depends upon what that thug Mara sees as to his advantage. the NFL clearly has no problem with creating and enforceing expost facto rules.

Beyond that, any such action by the league would be guaranteed to push Snyder to court. Goodbye antitrust exemption... goodbye labor agreement... hello to a future of the Danny and Jerruh buying all of the talent available.

Not a chance the league does anything here.
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Postby markshark84 » Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:13 pm

Yes. It is ridiculous to even think they are coming after the skins. Obviously Williams has been reprimanded and he (and most of the players) is too far removed from Washington to implicate the organization.
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Postby DarthMonk » Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:38 pm

Countertrey wrote:The Commissioner's office has already stated that they have cleared the Redskins. It's also pretty clear, at this point, that Gibbs knew nothing (I have been convinced of that, btw).

Of course, this all depends upon what that thug Mara sees as to his advantage. the NFL clearly has no problem with creating and enforceing expost facto rules.

Beyond that, any such action by the league would be guaranteed to push Snyder to court. Goodbye antitrust exemption... goodbye labor agreement... hello to a future of the Danny and Jerruh buying all of the talent available.

Not a chance the league does anything here.


I hope you're right, Trey. Could you imagine?

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