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SouthLondonRedskin
Hog
Joined: 09 Jan 2012
Posts: 1114
Location: South London, UK
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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Then they have to make some cap space, that's how its done.
Call a taxi for Beck for a start, that's $1.2m right there.... |
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riggofan
Hog
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 2957
Location: Montclair, Virginia
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| SouthLondonRedskin wrote: | Then they have to make some cap space, that's how its done.
Call a taxi for Beck for a start, that's $1.2m right there.... |
Ok you just saved $1.2m. Although you have to sign somebody else to take Beck's place, so how much did you ACTUALLY save? $400K? Keep going though. Who else are we going to get rid of?
I love this BS. Not only do we need to sign our rookies, find an OL-man or two, a safety and a CB, but we're going to start cutting players from our existing thin roster so we can pay our 37 year old LB $9m a year.
For anybody who deals with reality, the problem with Fletcher is that he's at the end of his career. For younger players, the skins have been able to put together a high $ package squeezed in over four or five years. With Fletcher, too much of the money has to fit under the cap in the near term. |
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DarthMonk
DarthMonk
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 3238
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Countertrey wrote: | Pay
The
Man.
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How
much?
What
is
your
limit?
D
a
r
t
h
M
o
n
k |
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Countertrey
the 'mudge
Joined: 09 Jan 2004
Posts: 12783
Location: Curmudgeon Corner, Maine
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Just a reminder to play nice, folks. |
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markshark84
Hog
Joined: 14 Jul 2008
Posts: 1460
Location: Houston, TX
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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| langleyparkjoe wrote: | | 30+ isn't an exaggeration.. If Cam Newton can do it down there with really just Steve Smith, I'm taking a guess RG3/Luck can do it with even more weapons. |
Please, it's not that simple.
There were SERIOUS improvements made to that offense from 2010 to 2011 outside of drafting Newton.
OL:
In 2010, Carolina had one of (if no the) worst OLs in football. They started Jordan Gross, Mackenzy Bernadeau, Geoff Schwartz, Ryan Kalil, and Gary Williams. Jordan Gross was also coming off the IR in 2010 after breaking his ankle -- most consider 2010 to be the worst full season in his career.
In 2011, only Gross and Kalil remained as members of the starting lineup -- when Newton came in as starter. They made significant upgrades with Hangartner, Bell, and Wharton -- not to include a new head OL coach and OL assistants. With the exception of Wharton (who is now with Cincy), 4 of the 5 starters from 2011 are expected to retain their positions on the depth chart in 2012.
RB:
Deangelo Williams only played 6 games in 2010 and was ultimately replaced by Goodson (since in the prior year it was Williams and Steward -- who both had 1k rushing seasons in 2009). Williams came back in 2011 to supplement Stewart and Newton --- and had one of his best ypc averages of his career.
TE:
Shockey was a huge upgrade at the TE position in 2011 as well as Olsen. They had nobody at that position in 2010.
WR:
This remained primarily the same with the exception of replacing Gettis with Naanee, which appeared to be an upgrade.
So I don't believe it is as easy as you are making it out. We have made upgrades at WR, but without adequate OL support, we are still in trouble. |
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DarthMonk
DarthMonk
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 3238
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Countertrey wrote: | | Just a reminder to play nice, folks. |
Dang it's easy to get emotional. Hope it wasn't me. 
DarthMonk |
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SouthLondonRedskin
Hog
Joined: 09 Jan 2012
Posts: 1114
Location: South London, UK
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| riggofan wrote: | | SouthLondonRedskin wrote: | Then they have to make some cap space, that's how its done.
Call a taxi for Beck for a start, that's $1.2m right there.... |
Ok you just saved $1.2m. Although you have to sign somebody else to take Beck's place, so how much did you ACTUALLY save? $400K? Keep going though. Who else are we going to get rid of?
I love this BS. Not only do we need to sign our rookies, find an OL-man or two, a safety and a CB, but we're going to start cutting players from our existing thin roster so we can pay our 37 year old LB $9m a year.
For anybody who deals with reality, the problem with Fletcher is that he's at the end of his career. For younger players, the skins have been able to put together a high $ package squeezed in over four or five years. With Fletcher, too much of the money has to fit under the cap in the near term. |
C'mon Riggofan, I know we're simplifing things a little here but the truth is if the space needed to be made then it can be made. When we draft a QB we'll have three, we don't need to replace Beck. Restructure Hall's $6m this year for example.
I hear what you're saying, and it makes perfect sense. However on this occasion we need to bend a little because we will be taking backward steps defensively otherwise, at a time when we (and Shanny) can't afford too.
And this guy, unlike so many modern sports stars, deserves it. |
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cowboykillerzRGiii
CKRGiii
Joined: 29 Jul 2010
Posts: 3165
Location: 505 New Mexico repn
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| riggofan wrote: | | SouthLondonRedskin wrote: | Then they have to make some cap space, that's how its done.
Call a taxi for Beck for a start, that's $1.2m right there.... |
Ok you just saved $1.2m. Although you have to sign somebody else to take Beck's place, so how much did you ACTUALLY save? $400K? Keep going though. Who else are we going to get rid of?
I love this BS. Not only do we need to sign our rookies, find an OL-man or two, a safety and a CB, but we're going to start cutting players from our existing thin roster so we can pay our 37 year old LB $9m a year.
For anybody who deals with reality, the problem with Fletcher is that he's at the end of his career. For younger players, the skins have been able to put together a high $ package squeezed in over four or five years. With Fletcher, too much of the money has to fit under the cap in the near term. |
Why replace beck.. 2 qbs is all we had active last year and crompton or who ever remains on the ps no need to bring.in another back up.. rex signed for.that job.
I think everyone can agree Fletcher is old, but good. His value is far greater then his leading the league in tackles but.more on leading our defense. Holding people accountable, gettin players in the correct position, calling audibles, and of course the off field leadership he brings to.the table. I hope he can retire hos playing career here then join the staff. I agree 9 million per year w our cap penalties is not realistic but I think the.majority of skins nation wants us to try our best to meet in the.middle.
For what its worth he isn't a frail Brett farve he is an ageless beast that hasn't missed a game who lays the wood and knows the position as good as anyone can ever hope to. |
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1niksder
**********
Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Posts: 16591
Location: If I knew ... it would explain a lot but I've seen Homerville on a map, that wasn't helpful at all
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| riggofan wrote: | | SouthLondonRedskin wrote: | Then they have to make some cap space, that's how its done.
Call a taxi for Beck for a start, that's $1.2m right there.... |
Ok you just saved $1.2m. Although you have to sign somebody else to take Beck's place, so how much did you ACTUALLY save? $400K? Keep going though. Who else are we going to get rid of?
I love this BS. Not only do we need to sign our rookies, find an OL-man or two, a safety and a CB, but we're going to start cutting players from our existing thin roster so we can pay our 37 year old LB $9m a year.
For anybody who deals with reality, the problem with Fletcher is that he's at the end of his career. For younger players, the skins have been able to put together a high $ package squeezed in over four or five years. With Fletcher, too much of the money has to fit under the cap in the near term. |
Can I play?
For starters Beck will save $1.3M so there's another $100K there.
The Redskins would be sitting at $6M under the cap without Beck, with $5.5M set aside for rookies, and $3.4M for PBP.
Re-working Trent Williams will free up another $6.5M minimum or $12.5M with Beck gone.
Here's what they can do...
Five years, $35M with $7.2M signing bonus and $10M fully guaranteed
Signing Bonus and the first two year's base salary are the guaranteed money with (base of $1M in 2012 and $1.8M in 2013).
The deal would include option bonuses of $2.5M in 2014 and 2015 (if not paid the contract voids).
Half million dollar roster bonuses in first two years.
2012 cap it would be $2.94M in 2013 $3.74M
Base salary would be $4.5M in 2014, $6.5M in 2015 and $8M in 2016.
If they void the deal after the 2013 season they will take a cap hit of $4.32M if they don't the cap hit will be around $8M and must be re-worked before the Option bonus is paid.
How'd I do?
This could be done with the room they have now but would leave them with less than $500K in space so they'll have to make a contract move to re-sign Flecther.
For those that don't know Flecth fired his agent right before free agency started. |
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SouthLondonRedskin
Hog
Joined: 09 Jan 2012
Posts: 1114
Location: South London, UK
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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You're wasted on here 1niksder...
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DarthMonk
DarthMonk
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 3238
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| SouthLondonRedskin wrote: | You're wasted on here 1niksder...
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No kiddin'. That's what we asked for and voila.
DarthMonk |
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riggofan
Hog
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 2957
Location: Montclair, Virginia
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| 1niksder wrote: | Can I play?
For starters Beck will save $1.3M so there's another $100K there.
The Redskins would be sitting at $6M under the cap without Beck, with $5.5M set aside for rookies, and $3.4M for PBP.
Re-working Trent Williams will free up another $6.5M minimum or $12.5M with Beck gone.
Here's what they can do...
Five years, $35M with $7.2M signing bonus and $10M fully guaranteed
Signing Bonus and the first two year's base salary are the guaranteed money with (base of $1M in 2012 and $1.8M in 2013).
The deal would include option bonuses of $2.5M in 2014 and 2015 (if not paid the contract voids).
How'd I do? |
I've got a couple issues with what you wrote - but I give you huge credit here for taking a realistic stab at it and also for showing just how tricky this all actually is. I don't mean to snipe at anybody, but this "pay the man" stuff really bugs me. There's also this idea that the Redskins are somehow "wrong" for not giving Fletcher whatever he wants no matter what. Personally, I'm glad we have REAL football people in charge right now who seem to taking a long view of things.
Back to what 1niksder wrote. I had a couple questions:
1) Re: Beck, I thought I read somewhere that if we released him in June that we'd actually save 2.something million. Any truth?
2) Isn't the Trent Williams thing problematic because of the drug issue? I think they would have done that restructuring already otherwise. I want to believe Williams has turned things around, but that is really risky.
3) And lastly, I don't understand all of the intricacies, but I've read a couple places that this five year front loaded deal that the Redskins often use doesn't work for Fletcher. This is what ESPN said about it:
| Quote: | | The Redskins were able to sign younger players like Pierre Garcon and Josh Morgan to long-term deals because they're able to pay signing bonuses and spread out the cap hit over several years. But Fletcher's deal, since he's about to turn 37, isn't likely to be a very long one. And since Fletcher is still so valuable as a player and otherwise, it's not likely to be a cheap one either. So it's entirely possible the Redskins are stuck with the problem of how to fit a significant portion of a new Fletcher deal under this year's cap, and that such a problem is one they haven't faced with the other contracts they've handed out this offseason. |
On the plus side, at least we haven't heard Fletcher is out visiting other teams yet. Hopefully something can get done to keep him here. |
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Countertrey
the 'mudge
Joined: 09 Jan 2004
Posts: 12783
Location: Curmudgeon Corner, Maine
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Provide the man with proper remuneration. |
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1niksder
**********
Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Posts: 16591
Location: If I knew ... it would explain a lot but I've seen Homerville on a map, that wasn't helpful at all
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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| riggofan wrote: | | 1niksder wrote: | Can I play?
For starters Beck will save $1.3M so there's another $100K there.
The Redskins would be sitting at $6M under the cap without Beck, with $5.5M set aside for rookies, and $3.4M for PBP.
Re-working Trent Williams will free up another $6.5M minimum or $12.5M with Beck gone.
Here's what they can do...
Five years, $35M with $7.2M signing bonus and $10M fully guaranteed
Signing Bonus and the first two year's base salary are the guaranteed money with (base of $1M in 2012 and $1.8M in 2013).
The deal would include option bonuses of $2.5M in 2014 and 2015 (if not paid the contract voids).
How'd I do? |
I've got a couple issues with what you wrote - but I give you huge credit here for taking a realistic stab at it and also for showing just how tricky this all actually is. I don't mean to snipe at anybody, but this "pay the man" stuff really bugs me. There's also this idea that the Redskins are somehow "wrong" for not giving Fletcher whatever he wants no matter what. Personally, I'm glad we have REAL football people in charge right now who seem to taking a long view of things.
Back to what 1niksder wrote. I had a couple questions:
1) Re: Beck, I thought I read somewhere that if we released him in June that we'd actually save 2.something million. Any truth? |
Beck has a base salary of $1.3M releasing him would add that to the cap space, that's all they can get out of him.
| riggofan wrote: | | 2) Isn't the Trent Williams thing problematic because of the drug issue? I think they would have done that restructuring already otherwise. I want to believe Williams has turned things around, but that is really risky. |
They would have to add a year or two to the back end of this deal and give him about $10M in cash so thet may not be ready to do it yet, but it's a option.
| riggofan wrote: | 3) And lastly, I don't understand all of the intricacies, but I've read a couple places that this five year front loaded deal that the Redskins often use doesn't work for Fletcher. This is what ESPN said about it:
| Quote: | | The Redskins were able to sign younger players like Pierre Garcon and Josh Morgan to long-term deals because they're able to pay signing bonuses and spread out the cap hit over several years. But Fletcher's deal, since he's about to turn 37, isn't likely to be a very long one. And since Fletcher is still so valuable as a player and otherwise, it's not likely to be a cheap one either. So it's entirely possible the Redskins are stuck with the problem of how to fit a significant portion of a new Fletcher deal under this year's cap, and that such a problem is one they haven't faced with the other contracts they've handed out this offseason. |
On the plus side, at least we haven't heard Fletcher is out visiting other teams yet. Hopefully something can get done to keep him here. |
The example I gave is pretty much just like the deal Morgan signed minus the option bonuses in years 3 and 4. Morgan's deal will void after 2 years regardless. |
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PickSixerTWSS
Hog
Joined: 20 Sep 2011
Posts: 286
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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I'm just so pissed off that we haven't re-signed one of the best ILBs in the game!!!  |
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