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RayNAustin
Hog
Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2312
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| KazooSkinsFan wrote: | | Chris Luva Luva wrote: | Anthony Armstrong will make a comeback if RGIII's deep ball Accuracy translates to the NFL.
Rex isnt accurate deep, nor does he have the arm strength to lead the receiver. AA's off season had a lot to do with Rex. |
I'm tired of waiting for him to learn how to catch. |
I hear ya .... here's my take .... Armstrong has demonstrated tremendous ability when he's gotten a lot of opportunities, and he has produced. Trouble with him is his focus when played sparingly. Some guys just aren't good limited role guys ... whether it's confidence ... pressure ... whatever .... so I could see him being cut because of the drops.
But those drops I think are due to his limited opportunities in my opinion, and I agree with Chris .... AA could make an impact as a deep threat with RG3 extending plays. |
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1niksder
**********
Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Posts: 16578
Location: If I knew ... it would explain a lot but I've seen Homerville on a map, that wasn't helpful at all
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| Deadskins wrote: | | 1niksder wrote: | | emoses14 wrote: | | 1nik, i Know you aren't looking for any work, but could you give a brief rundown on the WR's cost if cut? Not for Garcon or Morgan, but the rest? It might impact some of our thoughts on your question, it will mine. |
Austin, Terrence saves $540,000
Banks, Brandon saves $540,000
Gaffney, Jabar saves $2,650,000
Hankerson, Leonard saves $17,000
Moss, Santana saves $1,667,000 now but adds $3,300,000 in dead cap this year and $1,660,000 next year
Paul, Niles saves $375,000
Robinson, Aldrick saves $390,000 |
And Armstrong? Or is he a FA? |
Forgot Triple A, releasing or trading him will save $490,000 |
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skinsfan#33
#33
Joined: 24 Jul 2004
Posts: 3875
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:46 am Post subject: |
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| KazooSkinsFan wrote: | | Chris Luva Luva wrote: | Anthony Armstrong will make a comeback if RGIII's deep ball Accuracy translates to the NFL.
Rex isnt accurate deep, nor does he have the arm strength to lead the receiver. AA's off season had a lot to do with Rex. |
I'm tired of waiting for him to learn how to catch. |
Just so you know he officially had zero drops last year!
Now he only caught 7 passes out of the 27 targets, but stats inc (official nfl stats) said he dropped no balls!
Don't have time to check his 2010 stats. |
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Irn-Bru
FanFromAnnapolis
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 10627
Location: on the bandwagon
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| skinsfan#33 wrote: | | KazooSkinsFan wrote: | | Chris Luva Luva wrote: | Anthony Armstrong will make a comeback if RGIII's deep ball Accuracy translates to the NFL.
Rex isnt accurate deep, nor does he have the arm strength to lead the receiver. AA's off season had a lot to do with Rex. |
I'm tired of waiting for him to learn how to catch. |
Just so you know he officially had zero drops last year!
Now he only caught 7 passes out of the 27 targets, but stats inc (official nfl stats) said he dropped no balls! |
The official NFL stats for drops are worse than useless. You have to rely on other game charters for that information. |
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crazyhorse1
ch1
Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 3558
Location: virginia beach
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:01 pm Post subject: Re: Why not Do it Again.... Who stays - Who goes? |
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| 1niksder wrote: | 
Some of you understand the title of this thread the rest of you will figure it out.
For Redskins, plenty of competition at wide receiver by Rich Tandler
| Quote: | Although there is plenty of time for more additions and subtractions can be made from the Redskins receiver corps, the pause button seems to have been hit for the time being, so let’s take a look at who stands where.
The one sure starter right now is Pierre Garçon. By virtue of his $8 million per year contract, he will be given every opportunity to establish himself as the top receiver on the team, if not a true No. 1 receiver.
It also seems Jabar Gaffney, last year’s leading receiver, will keep his starting job. Although at age 31 his presence would run counter to the youth movement afoot in Ashburn, his experience and ability to work the field in Kyle Shanahan’s offense will be of great help while a rookie quarterback, presumably Robert Griffin III, gets his feet under him.
After that, the picture isn’t quite as clear. It would appear Leonard Hankerson will get the first shot at having a substantial role, assuming he is recovered from the hip injury that ended his 2011 season before it really got started. Hankerson has said he will be ready for training camp, but athletes frequently are more optimistic about recovering from injuries than medical reality would indicate. It’s wait and see on him until we get closer to camp.
Free-agent acquisition Joshua Morgan is also recovering from a season-ending injury. He broke his ankle in the fifth game of 2011. Morgan’s contract, which calls for him to make $12 million over two years, shows he is expected to make a substantial contribution as well. He provides some insurance in case Hankerson is not ready to go.
We’ve covered five receivers, and we’re just getting to Santana Moss, the mainstay of the team’s wide receiving corps since he came to Washington in 2005. He has played in 104 games for the Redskins, and he has started 104. Will he be a starter in 2012? Will he be on the team at all? Even if you factor in that he missed four games with a broken hand, 2012 was his least productive season since he was a Jet in 2002. It might be tempting to write him off, as he will be 33 before the season starts, but it may be too soon to do that.
We wrote earlier this week here that Anthony Armstrong could benefit greatly from the presence of Griffin, who has uncanny accuracy on the deep ball. If he can average nearly 20 yards per catch like he did in 2010 they will find a way to get him onto the field.
It’s not a make or break year for Niles Paul, but the second-year player should make some strides in OTAs and in training camp to solidify his spot on the roster. He only caught two passes last year, but he only was targeted five times in 162 snaps. His blocking got him on the field on offense, and he needs to continue to improve upon his strength while working on his weak areas.
Is this the end of the line for Terrence Austin? With the additions of Garçon and Morgan, somebody has to go. The 2010 seventh-round pick has shown flashes of ability here and there but never with any consistency.
Brandon Banks didn’t work much as a receiver in training camp due to a knee injury, and he made the team as a return specialist. There may not be a roster spot for such a player in 2012, so Banks might have to find a way to get some snaps at wide receiver or face getting cut.
Aldrick Robinson was on the roster for one game after spending most of the year on the practice squad. He has speed, but his game needs refinement.
So we have 10 wide receivers for probably six spots. With Garçon, Gaffney, Morgan and Hankerson safe, that leaves six fighting for two jobs. And more could potentially be added later in free agency or in the draft. |
Lets Go with 6, 7 max although they did have 10 on the roster at some points last season. If you think they'll draft a rookie that will make the roster then leave a spot for him blank in your list of 6-7, same for another free agent WR..
WHO STAYS and WHO GOES?
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The same pure nonsense about Banks. He'll make it as a returner or not at all. Shanny's not even thinking about his being a receiver. |
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1niksder
**********
Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Posts: 16578
Location: If I knew ... it would explain a lot but I've seen Homerville on a map, that wasn't helpful at all
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:07 pm Post subject: Re: Why not Do it Again.... Who stays - Who goes? |
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| crazyhorse1 wrote: | | 1niksder wrote: |
Some of you understand the title of this thread the rest of you will figure it out.
For Redskins, plenty of competition at wide receiver by Rich Tandler
| Quote: | Although there is plenty of time for more additions and subtractions can be made from the Redskins receiver corps, the pause button seems to have been hit for the time being, so let’s take a look at who stands where.
The one sure starter right now is Pierre Garçon. By virtue of his $8 million per year contract, he will be given every opportunity to establish himself as the top receiver on the team, if not a true No. 1 receiver.
It also seems Jabar Gaffney, last year’s leading receiver, will keep his starting job. Although at age 31 his presence would run counter to the youth movement afoot in Ashburn, his experience and ability to work the field in Kyle Shanahan’s offense will be of great help while a rookie quarterback, presumably Robert Griffin III, gets his feet under him.
After that, the picture isn’t quite as clear. It would appear Leonard Hankerson will get the first shot at having a substantial role, assuming he is recovered from the hip injury that ended his 2011 season before it really got started. Hankerson has said he will be ready for training camp, but athletes frequently are more optimistic about recovering from injuries than medical reality would indicate. It’s wait and see on him until we get closer to camp.
Free-agent acquisition Joshua Morgan is also recovering from a season-ending injury. He broke his ankle in the fifth game of 2011. Morgan’s contract, which calls for him to make $12 million over two years, shows he is expected to make a substantial contribution as well. He provides some insurance in case Hankerson is not ready to go.
We’ve covered five receivers, and we’re just getting to Santana Moss, the mainstay of the team’s wide receiving corps since he came to Washington in 2005. He has played in 104 games for the Redskins, and he has started 104. Will he be a starter in 2012? Will he be on the team at all? Even if you factor in that he missed four games with a broken hand, 2012 was his least productive season since he was a Jet in 2002. It might be tempting to write him off, as he will be 33 before the season starts, but it may be too soon to do that.
We wrote earlier this week here that Anthony Armstrong could benefit greatly from the presence of Griffin, who has uncanny accuracy on the deep ball. If he can average nearly 20 yards per catch like he did in 2010 they will find a way to get him onto the field.
It’s not a make or break year for Niles Paul, but the second-year player should make some strides in OTAs and in training camp to solidify his spot on the roster. He only caught two passes last year, but he only was targeted five times in 162 snaps. His blocking got him on the field on offense, and he needs to continue to improve upon his strength while working on his weak areas.
Is this the end of the line for Terrence Austin? With the additions of Garçon and Morgan, somebody has to go. The 2010 seventh-round pick has shown flashes of ability here and there but never with any consistency.
Brandon Banks didn’t work much as a receiver in training camp due to a knee injury, and he made the team as a return specialist. There may not be a roster spot for such a player in 2012, so Banks might have to find a way to get some snaps at wide receiver or face getting cut.
Aldrick Robinson was on the roster for one game after spending most of the year on the practice squad. He has speed, but his game needs refinement.
So we have 10 wide receivers for probably six spots. With Garçon, Gaffney, Morgan and Hankerson safe, that leaves six fighting for two jobs. And more could potentially be added later in free agency or in the draft. |
Lets Go with 6, 7 max although they did have 10 on the roster at some points last season. If you think they'll draft a rookie that will make the roster then leave a spot for him blank in your list of 6-7, same for another free agent WR..
WHO STAYS and WHO GOES?
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The same pure nonsense about Banks. He'll make it as a returner or not at all. Shanny's not even thinking about his being a receiver. |
And why else would one of my post start with
Don't see him on the roster at all this year. Last year was prove it or lose it. The proof wasn't there so he won't be here. |
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The Hogster
#######
Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 7002
Location: Washington D.C.
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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Stays
Pierre Garçon
Santana Moss
Joshua Morgan
Leonard Hankerson
Niles Paul
Terrence Austin
Brandon Banks--as a Specialist like Mike S. said last year. Even Devin Hester went longer than 1 season without a return TD. Banks also had long returns negated by penalty. For some of you to argue that we keep Gano but cut Banks is beyond me but whatever. Banks is the best specialist we have--and as long as that's the case, he's on this team for that reason primarily. He's also a gadget player and threw a TD last year. Give this a rest. Eventually if you say he's gut every year, you'll be right one of these times since nothing lasts forever.
Goes
Jabar Gaffney
Aldrick Robinson
I predict Gaffney will be a cap casualty, especially if we get no relief from this cap penalty. At 23 Terrence Austin has the potential to step up as a WR and as an ST player. His youth and relative cheapness could mean Gaffney is gone.
Brandon Banks is not in competition with the WRs. Shanahan said this much last year. He's a specialist. Until we get someone who is a better returner, he's on the roster. I guess we can debate this until some here get it right.
In my view, Josh Morgan is a similar player to Niles Paul, which to me indicates competition at that position. Morgan has been more explosive as a receiver, but we haven't seen enough of Paul to adequately compare them. I expect the better of these two to make the final roster. I'm picking Morgan now, but would not be surprised to see him released before the season.
Aldrick to PS.
Last edited by The Hogster on Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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KazooSkinsFan
kazoo
Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 10021
Location: Kazmania
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| The Hogster wrote: | | Brandon Banks is not in competition with the WRs |
This is true in a way, but actually he is because some of the receivers are competing with him for return duties. And that one of the receivers is a special teams player is typically why teams would carry six receivers. They don't usually carry six..plus...a special teamer. I seriously doubt we need six plus a special teamer as well, we're not getting six guys regular action. I'm not saying Banks won't make it because of special teams, I'm pointing out your statement is only partially true.
I do agree though that Gaffney is on the bubble. |
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ATX_Skins
ATX
Joined: 29 Oct 2008
Posts: 3322
Location: NOVA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| I hope Banks takes a hike. He'd be first on my cut list. |
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KazooSkinsFan
kazoo
Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 10021
Location: Kazmania
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| RayNAustin wrote: | | KazooSkinsFan wrote: | | Chris Luva Luva wrote: | Anthony Armstrong will make a comeback if RGIII's deep ball Accuracy translates to the NFL.
Rex isnt accurate deep, nor does he have the arm strength to lead the receiver. AA's off season had a lot to do with Rex. |
I'm tired of waiting for him to learn how to catch. |
I hear ya .... here's my take .... Armstrong has demonstrated tremendous ability when he's gotten a lot of opportunities, and he has produced. Trouble with him is his focus when played sparingly. Some guys just aren't good limited role guys ... whether it's confidence ... pressure ... whatever .... so I could see him being cut because of the drops. |
It is specifically because of the drops I say that. If we had his upside and not the endless drops I'd have him staying. Even if it reduces drops by his playing more, I have a hard time taking to the point that regular play would solve the problem. And even more so, we have MORE quality receivers he's competing with not less. How is he going to get more playing time?
| RayNAustin wrote: | | I agree with Chris .... AA could make an impact as a deep threat with RG3 extending plays. |
He does make some spectacular plays, but we have some other burners now and the drops are such momentum killers. In fairness I've never been sold on him, I advocate cutting him every year. |
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andyjens89
Hog
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
Posts: 1894
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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Stays:
Moss
Gaffney
Garcon
Morgan
Hankerson
Paul
Goes:
Everyone else
Plus we will be getting Cooley and Davis back. I like how it's looking right now. Armstrong was decent, but I don't think he makes the team. Austin, Robinson, and Banks are all short, fast guys, but if Moss is healthy and Garcon is as good as the coaches think he is, then we don't really need them. It will be interesting to see if they draft another WR in the later rounds to add some more competition.
Paul is a solid special teamer and blocker so he makes the team. The other guys make it by default, in my opinion. |
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rskin72
Hog
Joined: 11 Mar 2012
Posts: 283
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:19 pm Post subject: Receivers |
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We kept a lot of receivers at beginning of last season....recall 7. I would expect same number this season due to nature of our offense.
Some of the numbers last season WRT receiving corp are skewed as we had the 28th ranked passer throwing balls. While I am not going to compare our rookie QB to Brady or Manning, my point would be that given an accurate passer who can throw a deep ball (either Luck or RGIII), this will only lead to our receivers looking better and having more opportunities to make plays.
Concur with most folks in that our two new receivers will be among 7 I think we will keep. Hard to cut Gaffney with his production last season, so would keep him. I like Moss, and think he will be on the team next season....but to be honest, I saw Moss make some drops last season that were uncharateristic.....specifically one in Rams game that lead to an interception, went right through his hands, then there was the push off penalty at end of Pats game. I do concur that, outside of the TE's, we have never really had anyone else that would scare opposition so that made life more difficult for Moss.
Beyond those, Hankerson will depend on return from his injury, but pretty sure he will stay this season. I like AA, and would like to see him get a chance with a good QB throwing to him.....
Don't recall seeing much of Niles Paul (2 receptions) or Terrence Austin (12 Receptions) last season...but if height is a concern, Paul is listed at 6'1" and Austin at 5'11". Stallworth is gone.
Banks, while potentially explosive, also makes some bonehead decisions on when to run the ball after a kick-off. Worries me also that he is so darn small. I don't see, however, any other kick returners yet on the team.....Royal would have been a potential but he signed with SD. One other thing with Banks, I know there were times when opposition kicked away from him, so put a bit of a scare in some teams on returns. |
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1niksder
**********
Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Posts: 16578
Location: If I knew ... it would explain a lot but I've seen Homerville on a map, that wasn't helpful at all
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:26 pm Post subject: Re: Why not Do it Again.... Who stays - Who goes? |
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| crazyhorse1 wrote: | | 1niksder wrote: |
Some of you understand the title of this thread the rest of you will figure it out.
For Redskins, plenty of competition at wide receiver by Rich Tandler
| Quote: | Although there is plenty of time for more additions and subtractions can be made from the Redskins receiver corps, the pause button seems to have been hit for the time being, so let’s take a look at who stands where.
The one sure starter right now is Pierre Garçon. By virtue of his $8 million per year contract, he will be given every opportunity to establish himself as the top receiver on the team, if not a true No. 1 receiver.
It also seems Jabar Gaffney, last year’s leading receiver, will keep his starting job. Although at age 31 his presence would run counter to the youth movement afoot in Ashburn, his experience and ability to work the field in Kyle Shanahan’s offense will be of great help while a rookie quarterback, presumably Robert Griffin III, gets his feet under him.
After that, the picture isn’t quite as clear. It would appear Leonard Hankerson will get the first shot at having a substantial role, assuming he is recovered from the hip injury that ended his 2011 season before it really got started. Hankerson has said he will be ready for training camp, but athletes frequently are more optimistic about recovering from injuries than medical reality would indicate. It’s wait and see on him until we get closer to camp.
Free-agent acquisition Joshua Morgan is also recovering from a season-ending injury. He broke his ankle in the fifth game of 2011. Morgan’s contract, which calls for him to make $12 million over two years, shows he is expected to make a substantial contribution as well. He provides some insurance in case Hankerson is not ready to go.
We’ve covered five receivers, and we’re just getting to Santana Moss, the mainstay of the team’s wide receiving corps since he came to Washington in 2005. He has played in 104 games for the Redskins, and he has started 104. Will he be a starter in 2012? Will he be on the team at all? Even if you factor in that he missed four games with a broken hand, 2012 was his least productive season since he was a Jet in 2002. It might be tempting to write him off, as he will be 33 before the season starts, but it may be too soon to do that.
We wrote earlier this week here that Anthony Armstrong could benefit greatly from the presence of Griffin, who has uncanny accuracy on the deep ball. If he can average nearly 20 yards per catch like he did in 2010 they will find a way to get him onto the field.
It’s not a make or break year for Niles Paul, but the second-year player should make some strides in OTAs and in training camp to solidify his spot on the roster. He only caught two passes last year, but he only was targeted five times in 162 snaps. His blocking got him on the field on offense, and he needs to continue to improve upon his strength while working on his weak areas.
Is this the end of the line for Terrence Austin? With the additions of Garçon and Morgan, somebody has to go. The 2010 seventh-round pick has shown flashes of ability here and there but never with any consistency.
Brandon Banks didn’t work much as a receiver in training camp due to a knee injury, and he made the team as a return specialist. There may not be a roster spot for such a player in 2012, so Banks might have to find a way to get some snaps at wide receiver or face getting cut.
Aldrick Robinson was on the roster for one game after spending most of the year on the practice squad. He has speed, but his game needs refinement.
So we have 10 wide receivers for probably six spots. With Garçon, Gaffney, Morgan and Hankerson safe, that leaves six fighting for two jobs. And more could potentially be added later in free agency or in the draft. |
Lets Go with 6, 7 max although they did have 10 on the roster at some points last season. If you think they'll draft a rookie that will make the roster then leave a spot for him blank in your list of 6-7, same for another free agent WR..
WHO STAYS and WHO GOES?
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The same pure nonsense about Banks. He'll make it as a returner or not at all. Shanny's not even thinking about his being a receiver. |
So state who you think will stay and who goes... We need your opinion not your opinion of someone else's opinion.
If you don't have one state that...
If you would rather wait until the final cuts, that's OK too.
But have a opinion of your own. It's not that hard... for most people anyway |
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The Hogster
#######
Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 7002
Location: Washington D.C.
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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I think we discussed this ad nauseum last year. The 6th & 7th Wide Receivers are generally Special Teams players and not much more.
With that being said, Banks' contributions as a returner outweigh the benefit of a 6th or 7th WR who is merely a gunner, or a guy who stands behind the pile on a Field Goal attempt. |
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Deadskins
JSPB22
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
Posts: 14721
Location: Location, LOCATION!
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| KazooSkinsFan wrote: | | The Hogster wrote: | | Brandon Banks is not in competition with the WRs |
This is true in a way, but actually he is because some of the receivers are competing with him for return duties. And that one of the receivers is a special teams player is typically why teams would carry six receivers. They don't usually carry six..plus...a special teamer. I seriously doubt we need six plus a special teamer as well, we're not getting six guys regular action. I'm not saying Banks won't make it because of special teams, I'm pointing out your statement is only partially true.
I do agree though that Gaffney is on the bubble. |
Didn't we keep seven plus Banks last year? |
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