Why not Do it Again....WRs.. Who stays - Who goes?

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Postby cowboykillerzRGiii » Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:48 am

Elsewhere? You must mean plays like the reverse he took for six.. or the pass, that also went for six?
The small guy is a contributer any time he gets on the field. I bet next week we see a few passes from cousins or rgiii. Either way he is to valuable on special teams to let walk, and help some other team.. How many years did it take Hester to become a viable option at wr??
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Postby riggofan » Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:55 am

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
The Hogster wrote:Banks!! The only thing surprising about that return for a TD is that it wasn't called back.

That is why he makes this team. Because he can do that.



I agree. Now the Banks detractors can finally STFU about his ability to contribute.

That TD would have been the difference in the W/L column had this been a real game.


Why? Because he made his annual preseason TD kick return? :)

Not trying to give you a hard time man, but I'm not personally ready to STFU about Banks. I like the guy, but there are a couple other players I'd rather take with that roster spot. Just my personal opinion.

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Postby Chris Luva Luva » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:03 pm

ATX_Skins wrote:No, that was not your point. Nobody said Banks can't contribute in the return game. The concern has always been his contribution anywhere else on the field. You know this.


C'mon sir, now you're going to tell me what my point was. :lol: I was going to take the time to clarify it but it wouldn't be worth my time. You barked up the wrong tree and just don't want to admit to it. I could have been more clear in my original statement but regardless, I know what my intent was in writing it. Take it or leave, I could not possibly care less.


riggofan wrote:Why? Because he made his annual preseason TD kick return? :)

Not trying to give you a hard time man, but I'm not personally ready to STFU about Banks. I like the guy, but there are a couple other players I'd rather take with that roster spot. Just my personal opinion.


But I don't mind clarifying for you. I was more-so getting at the fact that his ability to return punts/kr without being called back due to a boneheaded penalty is amazing and game-changing. That's all. I stated last week that I have my doubts he'll make the time because of his frustrations at WR.
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Postby ATX_Skins » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:45 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
ATX_Skins wrote:No, that was not your point. Nobody said Banks can't contribute in the return game. The concern has always been his contribution anywhere else on the field. You know this.


C'mon sir, now you're going to tell me what my point was. :lol: I was going to take the time to clarify it but it wouldn't be worth my time. You barked up the wrong tree and just don't want to admit to it. I could have been more clear in my original statement but regardless, I know what my intent was in writing it. Take it or leave, I could not possibly care less.


riggofan wrote:Why? Because he made his annual preseason TD kick return? :)

Not trying to give you a hard time man, but I'm not personally ready to STFU about Banks. I like the guy, but there are a couple other players I'd rather take with that roster spot. Just my personal opinion.


But I don't mind clarifying for you. I was more-so getting at the fact that his ability to return punts/kr without being called back due to a boneheaded penalty is amazing and game-changing. That's all. I stated last week that I have my doubts he'll make the time because of his frustrations at WR.


So do you feel he still should have a roster spot to this point? I personally do not think he has done enough at WR to earn one. Now, if he were to bring one to the house every game that may change my opinion.
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Postby riggofan » Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:22 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:But I don't mind clarifying for you. I was more-so getting at the fact that his ability to return punts/kr without being called back due to a boneheaded penalty is amazing and game-changing. That's all. I stated last week that I have my doubts he'll make the time because of his frustrations at WR.


Its a fair point. Believe me, I like the kid and respect his abilities. Just not sure I'm buying how much of a game changer he can be for us overall in the regular season with the new kick off rules. Even Devin Hester was much less of a game changer last year under the new rules. I'd probably rather see the spot go to a red zone guy like Briscoe or maybe another RB.

I did post in another thread that I would happily say goodbye to Rex and give that roster spot to Banks!

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Postby the poster » Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:47 pm

riggofan wrote:Why? Because he made his annual preseason TD kick return? :)

Not trying to give you a hard time man, but I'm not personally ready to STFU about Banks. I like the guy, but there are a couple other players I'd rather take with that roster spot. Just my personal opinion.


the players you are referring to are guys who either will not be dressed on sundays (inactive) or if they are, they won't get into the game much. And I know one of those names you're thinking of doesn't even play special teams so as a 5th or 6th receiver who doesnt play special teams.....how is that more valuable than a guy who can change a game on a punt return?

Here's the thing.....some don't appreciate the value of a dangerous punt returner. Not until it's Sunday afternoon, 3pm, beginning of the 4th quarter, in a game that is 17-14.

But Right now....in the Summer Time...as you sit at your desk, you're not really appreciating the importance of a punt returner.

banks is one of the games best returners. the fact that he DIDNT score a TD last year doesnt change that. they didnt block up his returns as well as they did the year before.

just give him a little space at the beginning, what they couldnt do last year, and that's all you need.

i would keep him. he'll be snatched up VERY QUICKLY if the redskins cut him. yes, KR's dont have value anymore because of the assinine rule that results in kickoffs going out of the end zone. But as the weather gets colder at the end of the year, more returns will occur.

And in the meantime, what has more value?

A punt returner with his ability vs. a 5th or even 6th WR that will occassionally not even be active and likely wont be on the field that much? I still believe in special teams and defense. Always important.

Just remember that there's going to be games that washington only activates 4 receivers.

the redskins have a limited number of playmakers - i would not toss one out just because richard crawford had an okay return or two. i wasnt even impressed with those particular returns. banks would have done a whole lot more with the space crawford had on them.

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Postby cowboykillerzRGiii » Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:12 pm

Funny thing about this wr talk is BB has as much tds and yards as anyone... Not playing the 2nd game on O and w horrible passes from grossy game one.
Cut a Hester type of weapon? Wow.
All the nay sayers want this kid on the pukes and us having to kick to him? THAT is reality guys.
Fact is keeping Briscoe and Robinson, what's the point of keeping AAA? How much time will any of those guys even see behind Garçon, Hanktime, Moss, and Morgan?
Ya its preseason but last year blocking coulda helped his td ratio including less blocking in the back. I think 2 were called back regular season? Going into his third year he has broken nearly 10punts/kos for tds.. with at least four being called back. Hell maybe even more for both stats. When have we ever had that kind of a threat?
Cut him? Na. I'd rather him over helu, ht, Paulson, AAA, rex, Gomes, griffin, and even Davis- the rb who should hit the ps.
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Postby ATX_Skins » Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:22 pm

cowboykillerzRED wrote:Funny thing about this wr talk is BB has as much tds and yards as anyone... Not playing the 2nd game on O and w horrible passes from grossy game one.
Cut a Hester type of weapon? Wow.
All the nay sayers want this kid on the pukes and us having to kick to him? THAT is reality guys.
Fact is keeping Briscoe and Robinson, what's the point of keeping AAA? How much time will any of those guys even see behind Garçon, Hanktime, Moss, and Morgan?
Ya its preseason but last year blocking coulda helped his td ratio including less blocking in the back. I think 2 were called back regular season? Going into his third year he has broken nearly 10punts/kos for tds.. with at least four being called back. Hell maybe even more for both stats. When have we ever had that kind of a threat?
Cut him? Na. I'd rather him over helu, ht, Paulson, AAA, rex, Gomes, griffin, and even Davis- the rb who should hit the ps.


I'd rather have Helu and Paulsen, but agreed on the rest of those guys.

I think with 2 preseason games remaining we will get to see more of Banks and the others that may be on the bubble.

I did notice he could have had a return I think in the 3rd but dropped it in the end zone. Those are opportunities that he has to make the best out. As far as Banks should be concerned, every time he has a chance at a return he'd better run like his career is on the line.
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Postby DarthMonk » Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:45 pm

DarthMonk wrote:I'd be happy keeping Banks as a specialist. I don't need him at WR. Desmond Howard proved you can be a non-descript WR but be the MVP in a Super Bowl as a specialist.

Size might easily be the biggest single factor that could keep BB from being a top 53 player. I'm sure we all agree he's either on or very close to the bubble. I was actually surprised the very first time we kept him as he had been coughing up the ball. I think we actually waived him at one point. But his big play ability in the return game can trump all other considerations. I'd just keep him there.

My 2 cents


Many posters wrote:Shanny said, Shanny said, Shanny said, and Shanny said ...


Since when do we believe what Shannny said? Banks' punt return for a TD may have been worth $490,000.

Just stop using him as a WR. It's just another chance to get hurt. KR, PR, and ocassional gadget. That's enough.

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Postby Red_One43 » Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:58 pm

A Tale of Dallas Games: Same Two Teams but on Different Days!

Game 1: Banks 2 Punt Rets for 16 yrds a 8 yrd avg.
Game 2. Banks 3 Punt Ret for 97 yrds for a 32.33 yrd avg.
Not included is the shank by the Dallas punter who was trying to kick away from Banks after his two long returns.

What changed from Game 1 to Game 2? Did Banks suddenly start to get good at returning punts?
Try "blocking" as an answer - specifically blocking the gunners.

Look at the opening two games of the year?

NYG: 4 - 54 - 0 13.25 avg
ARI: 4-73 -0 18.25 avg

Banks was on fire as a punt returner. These were two gamechanging performances that showed what we could get with blocking. We won these games even though the O failed to get points on his two longest returns of those games. A returner's job is to get field position.

What happened? Did Banks suddenly lose his touch as a returner?
Try - teams game planning against him and try that blocking answer again.

The fact is Banks is among the best at punt returning. Fans love to see averages and who is ranked in the top 10. Of course, TDS! Coaches love TDS, but coahces know that return TDs are rare - can't count on those. Danny Smith called Banks a "chunk" yardage player. A returner's job is to get field position.

Banks had 9 punt returns over 20 yds (8 - 20+ yds and 1 - 40+yds)
That places him third behind Hestor and Ginn with 12 each.

True - by the end of the season the early rash of KO TD had all but dried up. Banks, as well as a lot of KO returners had been neutralized by new KO rules. Almost all of the KOR were early in the season.

Other Kick returners account for TDs from scrimmage?

Banks- 1 *
Hester - 1 (3 TDS rets)
Antonio Brown - 2 (1 TD rets)

Brown and Hester are two dangerous returners. I'll take them over Banks any day, but there TDs outside the return game aren't much more than banks and in Hester's case, tied. But, Banks didn't touch the ball from scrimmage even close to the times Hester and Brown did.

*For this post, I won't get into called back TDs because I do not know how many Brown or Hester had.

What is my point?

My point is Banks is one of the best returners in the NFL in giving his team a chance to win the game. He is not a returner like Hester who has a lot of moves and can get free for TDS. He is the best! Banks is a returner with great vision who exploits the seam and kills it with speed. Banks depends more on blocking then the Hester's - that doesn't make him less of a game changer or less of a returner. It means that he needs more support from the special teams blockers - thus the inconsistency between long returns. Give Banks the seam and you have a chunk of yardage everytime because of his speed.

Here's the deal: There is not Antonio Brown or Devin Hester on our roster. We have Brandon Banks who is the only guy on the roster who has the explosiveness to make a team alter their kick game. He is the only guy who speed is fast enough to threaten to take it to the house on any play. Crawford is good, but he lacks the speed. Robinson has the speed, but he lacks the vision of a returner and thus looked lost on his KO return. He has never returned punts.

In a Tale of Two Dallas Games. In Game 1, Banks doesn't get the blocking - no changing in that game. In Game 2, Banks gets the blocking (he doesn't take it to the house - he's no Hester), but on three ocasions he accounts for a short field for the O. That's his job as a returner to get field position. He did his job.

Shanny knows that!

Will Banks make the team? - Shanny has to weigh what Banks offers vs what others offer - that is way it is every year. Shanny continues to see that a guy with that speed needs to get the ball more often. We can all agree that Banks needs to be more than a returner, but as we have seen that doesn't necessarily mean just catching passes in Shanny's book.

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Postby Red_One43 » Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:14 pm

DarthMonk wrote:
DarthMonk wrote:I'd be happy keeping Banks as a specialist. I don't need him at WR. Desmond Howard proved you can be a non-descript WR but be the MVP in a Super Bowl as a specialist.

Size might easily be the biggest single factor that could keep BB from being a top 53 player. I'm sure we all agree he's either on or very close to the bubble. I was actually surprised the very first time we kept him as he had been coughing up the ball. I think we actually waived him at one point. But his big play ability in the return game can trump all other considerations. I'd just keep him there.

My 2 cents


Many posters wrote:Shanny said, Shanny said, Shanny said, and Shanny said ...


Since when do we believe what Shannny said? Banks' punt return for a TD may have been worth $490,000.

Just stop using him as a WR. It's just another chance to get hurt. KR, PR, and ocassional gadget. That's enough.

DarthMonk


You have a good point - both John Keim and Rich Campbell raised the question that Shanny may have been just trying to motivate Banks. Those comments were in their last training camp reports.

Careful saying, since when to you believe Shanny. When the 2011 draft was approaching, he said that OLB was a priority, he drafted Kerrigan. I would definitely say actions are better than believing his words. :)

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Postby Hooligan » Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:31 pm

I think whether or not to keep Banks rests on the question: do we need a home-run threat at KR more than a really good #6 receiver?
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Postby skinpride1 » Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:37 pm

BANKS ISNT GOING ANYWHERE BUT ON 2012 REDSKINS FINAL ROSTER.
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Postby skinsfan#33 » Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:28 pm

I know MS said Banks needs to contribute as a WR but really why should he have to?

No one is asking Gano to try out at WR or any other spot. Nick Sundberg doesn't have to make the team as a back up C! Why should Banks have to do something else?

He is a PR, KR, and can give you some gadget plays on offense. Are you telling me Banks makes less of a contribution than Sundberg? Or the 49th player on the roster.

He is just WAY too valuable to not be on the team!

Other people MIGHT be able to return kicks and punts as well Banks just like they might be able to Deep Snap as well as NS. If you can keep a spot for a guy that ONLY snaps the ball on punts and kicks (he doesn't even block) then you can keep a spot for a guy that WILL score more often than the 4th, 5th, or 6th WR!

Why there are any people that can't see Bank's value is beyond me!!!
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Postby Red_One43 » Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:40 pm

Hooligan wrote:I think whether or not to keep Banks rests on the question: do we need a home-run threat at KR more than a really good #6 receiver?


I think it is a little more than that. Shanny wants a home-run threat at KR and he wants a #6 receiver. I don't see him wanting one w/o the other. Not an either or for him. His actions say so.

1. If you look at the roster last year, Seven of the 8 receivers played extensively from scrimmage in at least one game. Banks was the one that didn't, but Shanny said that his primary role was a returner.

Shanny wants the 6th receiver to be able to come in and run routes and catch passes and give us a chance to win. Robinson clearly does that better than Banks.

Last Shanny said, I want my home run threat as well, I am keeping Banks as a returner.

2. Question: Since Robinson is not a returner (his KO return was not good at all - looked lost), can I be satisfied with Crawford returning punts. Then I can keep Robinson and let Banks go.

You see Crawford getting the reps at PR.

3. Sill another question that will be answered by the 4th preseason is: Will Robinson show that he can return punts, as good, if not better, than Banks?

You saw Robinson get a KO return and he is practicing returning PRs and he practiced all last year.

Shanny wants both. If he can get it (homerun and receiver) out of one , then he will. Of the guys returning punts in practice, only Robinson can match Banks' explosiveness.

This explains his challenge to Banks - you show me the receiver skills, you make the team, but it can be said that for Robinson, you show me the return skills you make the team.

Banks has the return skills, Robinson has the receiver skills and Crawford though a good returner lacks the speed.

4. This is THE QUESTION:: What 53 gives us the best chance to win? This is ALWAYS Shanny's most important question. This is how he could keep 8 receivers last year - 8 receivers! Did anybody see that coming?

Robinson - He has yet to show that he is a returner, but can you let this guy go. This might be the last year for Moss. Here is the heir apparent.

Banks - KR threat? He is more than that (Here is where I can talk about the called back reverse because we are talking threats). Reverses. Gadgets. Let's not forget the othet things that Shanny has tried like the wildcat. When you have a guy like Banks, you explore ways of getting the ball to him.

Shanny looks at potential. He matches up that potential with plays that he would like to run.

These two guys give us a very good chance to win.

5. Another Question arises: Can I keep 7 receivers with other needs I have?

Like last year, I finds a way to keep who he wants as his best 53.

Robinson is your 6th receiver.

7 Receivers with Banks, not designated as a returner, but getting some more play from scrimmage to set up gagdets. May go deep to him once in a while. He showed in practice that he is improving as a wide out.

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