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Countertrey
the 'mudge
Joined: 09 Jan 2004
Posts: 12768
Location: Curmudgeon Corner, Maine
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| emoses14 wrote: | | Countertrey wrote: | Many will recall my primary problem with Jason Campbell was that he lacked "it". Had all the talent in the world, and the physical atributes to match... but was just missing a competitive fire, an ability to take up a challenge, to improvise, to find a way.
Tebow has tons of "it", but does not have the skills, possibly the talent to match... at least at this point.
RGIII is loaded with "it"... and is loaded with talent... and a full package of gifts.
I hope he can find his way into the B&G nation. |
 to all of that (except the tebow part, of course) |
 Don't get that... You don't have to like Tebow to recognize that he knows how to make things happen. He knows how to turn crap into scores. If Campbell had just a touch of that, we might be speaking of him as a future hall of fame QB right now... |
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SkinsLaVar
Hog
Joined: 13 Sep 2004
Posts: 1189
Location: L.A.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:14 am Post subject: |
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| I Wish |
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emoses14
Hog
Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 1505
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:04 am Post subject: |
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| Countertrey wrote: | | emoses14 wrote: | | Countertrey wrote: | Many will recall my primary problem with Jason Campbell was that he lacked "it". Had all the talent in the world, and the physical atributes to match... but was just missing a competitive fire, an ability to take up a challenge, to improvise, to find a way.
Tebow has tons of "it", but does not have the skills, possibly the talent to match... at least at this point.
RGIII is loaded with "it"... and is loaded with talent... and a full package of gifts.
I hope he can find his way into the B&G nation. |
to all of that (except the tebow part, of course) |
Don't get that... You don't have to like Tebow to recognize that he knows how to make things happen. He knows how to turn crap into scores. If Campbell had just a touch of that, we might be speaking of him as a future hall of fame QB right now... |
Agreed that you don't have to like a player to realize his IT factor (Deion for instance). However, I do not think that Tebow has IT. You say he knows how to make things happen. OK, in my opinion of Broncos last year, I saw a defense and running game foundation with an offensive gimmick (Triple option) that worked for about as long as it possibly could have. That's not having IT. I don't see what the Broncos did on offense as being rescued by Tebow (i.e Tebow turning crap into scores). In fact I'd say they were able to win games despite their severe deficiency at QB. That's a testament to the coaching staff, defense and running game.
I think the problem here is the hype around Tebow going both ways, positive and negative I mean. He doesn't have IT (that's the pro-Tebow media and hype circus) and he's not the worst thing to ever get behind center either (Hi, Ryan Leaf). If you strip all of the ancillary crap away, you have a poor to below average QB who is a very good to excellent athlete. Combining the 2 will result in wildly, WILDLY inconsistent QB play, as we saw. Now if the Jets use him in some small package of wildcat and triple option, that might be his true calling. But a legitimately good QB, never.
To an earlier point you made, the IT you speak of is RG3, without question. He's also got the talent and I agree 100000% with you on him.
YOu are right, if campbell did have IT, he'd be all world, becuse he substantially more talent that Tebow AS A QB. Tebow is a GREAT athlete. Put him at Fullback or tight end and get out of the way. But he is not a QB. |
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Countertrey
the 'mudge
Joined: 09 Jan 2004
Posts: 12768
Location: Curmudgeon Corner, Maine
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:50 am Post subject: |
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Yup... see you've allowed the hype to color your reality. The FACT is, the Denver defense kept the games in control last year... but, whether you like it or not, Tebow got scores that Campbell would NOT have. You can call it hype. I'll call it "it". With Campbell as their quarterback last year, they go nowhere. With Tebow, they got to the postseason, despite his lack of quarterback skills.
Finally, I have NO idea where you get the impression that I think Tebow is a quarterback... more coloring resulting from your preconceptions, I imagine. You don't have to be a quarterback to have it. (see London Fletcher). |
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SkinsJock
08 Champ
Joined: 24 Feb 2004
Posts: 11514
Location: New England
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:16 am Post subject: |
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I agree trey - a team with players like Tebow or Fletcher (or others) who just have a huge desire to be successful on the field will find a way to win
Campbell and others like him, have a chance at playing well but they are NOT going to help the other players around them be winners
there are a lot of players in the NFL that have talent - there are not many that have "IT"
Jason Campbell doesn't even know what "IT" is
Tebow is not a good QB IMHO but because of the "IT" factor, he can make plays - Campbell does not have that
RG3 has "IT" - BIG TIME |
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emoses14
Hog
Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 1505
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:54 am Post subject: |
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| Countertrey wrote: | | Yup... see you've allowed the hype to color your reality. The FACT is, the Denver defense kept the games in control last year... but, whether you like it or not, Tebow got scores that Campbell would NOT have. You can call it hype. I'll call it "it". With Campbell as their quarterback last year, they go nowhere. With Tebow, they got to the postseason, despite his lack of quarterback skills. |
Your fact is correct. Your assertion that tebow got sores campbell would not have, is quite literally an impossible comment to support or prove wrong. To do so you'd need to LITERALLY put each in the other's situations and then run game condition tests to figure it out, and even then it might not actually be dispositive. So, congrats? This "IT" you attribute to Tebow currently has him doing the same thing Campbell is doing. Backing up another guy who it would seem has enough more of IT then either of them do.
| Countertrey wrote: |
Finally, I have NO idea where you get the impression that I think Tebow is a quarterback... more coloring resulting from your preconceptions, I imagine. You don't have to be a quarterback to have it. (see London Fletcher). |
Expansion of a point. Wasn't attributing the Tebow is a QB to you, but to the the hype that has clearly ensared you with regard to him. (P.S. That's me attributing the over Tebow flavored kool aid drinking to you). If you don't think he's a quarterback, great, we agree. I've no preconceptions about Tebow or you, all I have is observation of him and reading what you write.
We agree you don't have to be a qb to have it, we disagree as to whether Tebow does. |
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emoses14
Hog
Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 1505
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| In case not posted elsewhere, the RG3 Gruden QB camp "interview" airs tonight @ 9 on ESPN. |
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rick301
Hog
Joined: 05 Jun 2004
Posts: 632
Location: Columbia, MD
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Redskin in Canada
~~~~~~
Joined: 08 Apr 2004
Posts: 10278
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, we will.  |
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andyjens89
Hog
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
Posts: 1894
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| emoses14 wrote: | | In case not posted elsewhere, the RG3 Gruden QB camp "interview" airs tonight @ 9 on ESPN. |
During the National Championship... What are you doing, ESPN? Good thing I have DVR  |
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rick301
Hog
Joined: 05 Jun 2004
Posts: 632
Location: Columbia, MD
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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You gotta set priorities - Kansas/Kentucky or Potential Redskin HOF QB?  |
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The Hogster
#######
Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 7002
Location: Washington D.C.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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I'll be watching QB Camp. I can't watch the dude with the Abominable UniBrow.
Bring on RG3 |
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Countertrey
the 'mudge
Joined: 09 Jan 2004
Posts: 12768
Location: Curmudgeon Corner, Maine
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| emoses14 wrote: | | Countertrey wrote: | | Yup... see you've allowed the hype to color your reality. The FACT is, the Denver defense kept the games in control last year... but, whether you like it or not, Tebow got scores that Campbell would NOT have. You can call it hype. I'll call it "it". With Campbell as their quarterback last year, they go nowhere. With Tebow, they got to the postseason, despite his lack of quarterback skills. |
Your fact is correct. Your assertion that tebow got sores campbell would not have, is quite literally an impossible comment to support or prove wrong. To do so you'd need to LITERALLY put each in the other's situations and then run game condition tests to figure it out, and even then it might not actually be dispositive. So, congrats? This "IT" you attribute to Tebow currently has him doing the same thing Campbell is doing. Backing up another guy who it would seem has enough more of IT then either of them do. |
Of course, you are right. I have no "proof" All I have to base it on is the history of 4th quarter performance under pressure of both quarterbacks. Tebow pulls scores from his butt. Campbell... not so much. I'll remind you that this inability to master the 4th quarter was the primary reason I jumped off the Campbell bandwagon...
| emoses14 wrote: |
| Countertrey wrote: |
Finally, I have NO idea where you get the impression that I think Tebow is a quarterback... more coloring resulting from your preconceptions, I imagine. You don't have to be a quarterback to have it. (see London Fletcher). |
Expansion of a point. Wasn't attributing the Tebow is a QB to you, but to the the hype that has clearly ensared you with regard to him. (P.S. That's me attributing the over Tebow flavored kool aid drinking to you). If you don't think he's a quarterback, great, we agree. I've no preconceptions about Tebow or you, all I have is observation of him and reading what you write. |
Got it. I'm really not on a bandwagon. I doubt Tebow ever becomes more than a guy that is really good with the ball under pressure. But... as much as you refuse to admit it... he's really good with the ball under pressure (that's pretty much a definition of "It", btw...
| Quote: | | We agree you don't have to be a qb to have it, we disagree as to whether Tebow does. |
That's about it, I suppose. |
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emoses14
Hog
Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 1505
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Countertrey wrote: | | Of course, you are right. I have no "proof" All I have to base it on is the history of 4th quarter performance under pressure of both quarterbacks. Tebow pulls scores from his butt. Campbell... not so much. I'll remind you that this inability to master the 4th quarter was the primary reason I jumped off the Campbell bandwagon... ). |
Fair enough.
| Countertrey wrote: | | Got it. I'm really not on a bandwagon. I doubt Tebow ever becomes more than a guy that is really good with the ball under pressure. But... as much as you refuse to admit it... he's really good with the ball under pressure (that's pretty much a definition of "It", btw... ). |
As for how good he is under pressure, I concede he made things happen in some games (Pitt, SD an CHI). Problem is, in other games (most notably the Patriots (x2) game, KC (playing for his playoff life no less (i know they backed in, but I believe that winning that game would've cemented it)) and Buffalo) he failed miserably to perform. So, again, I think there's at least as much raw evidence one way as the other. And depending on individual impressions, it can be viewed either way.
But, I'd much rather have RG3, and I suspect you do, too.  |
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Countertrey
the 'mudge
Joined: 09 Jan 2004
Posts: 12768
Location: Curmudgeon Corner, Maine
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Yup. But, I sure wouldn't mind a fullback named Tebow... |
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