Exploring Indy Fan's Views on Luck vs. RGIII

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Postby Countertrey » Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:14 am

The title of this thread is "Exploring Indy Fan's Views on Luck vs. RGIII". It is DM's attempt to explore the feelings of Indianapolis fans towards these two quarterbacks (you know... just to be clear, because, you know, DM might not have been clear enough...).

I think, at this point, we have a clear understanding of the opinion of one mystery "non-fan". Can we return to topic, now, and, you know... ignore distractions?

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Postby Scottskins » Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:01 pm

You sir are correct! So, back on topic. It sounds like colts fans are a little divided. We need to go register as colts fans and sway them to 95% luck, so irsay doesn't have to make a decision :-)
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Postby markshark84 » Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:47 pm

Scottskins wrote:You sir are correct! So, back on topic. It sounds like colts fans are a little divided. We need to go register as colts fans and sway them to 95% luck, so irsay doesn't have to make a decision :-)


I don't think we do. I go on the Indy forums and 90-99% already want Luck.
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Postby SkinsJock » Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:10 pm

There is no reason to worry here
the Colts fans AND .. MORE importantly, Irsay, ARE looking forward with GREAT anticipation to selecting Andrew Luck

just like we would if we had the top pick


we're getting RG3 - no doubt about it - AND that is great for BOTH RG3 AND this franchise
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Postby DarthMonk » Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:30 pm

Just went back and found a new thread where they almost all still seem to be happy with their decision. There is a flavor to many posts that we have more talent and they need to be patient. Some see Griff as fragile. I sense sub-surface buyers remorse from them. It all seems very "RATIONAL" over there. No fire.

I posted this:

Out here in DC we are very glad we got Griffin. I think pre-draft most Indy fans wanted Luck and most Redskin fans wanted you to take him. Sounds like we are both happy. We finally feel like we got THE GUY that other teams always seem to get. Not many of us like the straight option play - especially a dozen times a game. We like that Griff looks to throw first and take off last. We like the QB draw - especially in goal line. We are 10 for 10 in 1st and goal. We like his accuracy. We feel like we got a good character guy. We feel like Shanahan saw the "mild" concussion and is backing off on the risk as is Griff himself who must learn when to be daring. We think he's already better than Vick there as well as in his passing ability. We think the 76 yard burst last week was the epitome of how he plays and what only he can do from the QB position at this point.

We think we have a unique QB who keeps us in every game - who freezes defenses simply by looking in a certain direction - who makes DEs NOT pin their ears back - who gets guys open by simply being a threat - who makes our run game better (2nd in NFL) by running himself and not allowing the D to key on our RB - who gets us all FIRED UP ... and that means something.

Question to you all - How fired up are people in Indy over Luck? Are you simply happy/hopeful with your new pick or are you psyched about each upcoming battle?

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Postby Kilmer72 » Sat Oct 20, 2012 7:15 pm

DarthMonk wrote:Just went back and found a new thread where they almost all still seem to be happy with their decision. There is a flavor to many posts that we have more talent and they need to be patient. Some see Griff as fragile. I sense sub-surface buyers remorse from them. It all seems very "RATIONAL" over there. No fire.

I posted this:

Out here in DC we are very glad we got Griffin. I think pre-draft most Indy fans wanted Luck and most Redskin fans wanted you to take him. Sounds like we are both happy. We finally feel like we got THE GUY that other teams always seem to get. Not many of us like the straight option play - especially a dozen times a game. We like that Griff looks to throw first and take off last. We like the QB draw - especially in goal line. We are 10 for 10 in 1st and goal. We like his accuracy. We feel like we got a good character guy. We feel like Shanahan saw the "mild" concussion and is backing off on the risk as is Griff himself who must learn when to be daring. We think he's already better than Vick there as well as in his passing ability. We think the 76 yard burst last week was the epitome of how he plays and what only he can do from the QB position at this point.

We think we have a unique QB who keeps us in every game - who freezes defenses simply by looking in a certain direction - who makes DEs NOT pin their ears back - who gets guys open by simply being a threat - who makes our run game better (2nd in NFL) by running himself and not allowing the D to key on our RB - who gets us all FIRED UP ... and that means something.

Question to you all - How fired up are people in Indy over Luck? Are you simply happy/hopeful with your new pick or are you psyched about each upcoming battle?

DarthMonk



Excellent!!! :D I think by reading profootballtalk that most dont care and are happy with Luck but there are a couple of knuckle heads. What was your response?

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Postby Bob 0119 » Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:23 am

Indy Fans have no reason for regret on choosing Luck. He seems to be a solid QB. Let's compare Luck and RGIII after six games on how they rank in each of the QB categories.

Passing yards:

13th A. Luck (1488 yards)
21st RGIII (1343 yards)


Passing Attempts

9th A. Luck (221)
27th RGIII. (161)


Completions

18th A. Luck (118)
21st RGIII. (113)


Completion %

1st RGIII (70.2%)
<30th A. Luck (53.4%)


Passing TDs

20th A. Luck (7)
28th RGIII. (5)


INTs

8th A. Luck (7)
<27th RGIII (2)


QB Rating

3rd RGIII (100.5)
30th A. Luck (72.0)


I guess the biggest difference that we can see, is that Luck looks like he'll be really good once they build a team around him; RGIII makes the team around him better
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Postby Deadskins » Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:01 am

Luck's got 60 more attempts and just 5 more completions. :shock:
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Postby John Dee » Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:43 pm

"I guess the biggest difference that we can see, is that Luck looks like he'll be really good once they build a team around him; RGIII makes the team around him better"

Howdy Hogs... Die hard Indy fan here, have been lurking for a while now.

Me personally I feel each rookie QB should be judged individually. Not just look at overall numbers and make a blanket statement about any of them. Each situation is totally different from the other.


Interesting discussion and it comes up on Colts.com 24/7.

First off... BOTH QB's are very talented... and both worthy of the top pick. A lot of pressure on Luck right off the bat, because releasing Manning was a HUGE controvery here in INDY. But Luck has won just about every one over now. He really looks very good, behind a horrible OL.

Pre Draft I wanted Luck and he has not disappointed. He is P Manning with the ability to RUN. Something Indy fan is just not use to.

Andrew is getting hit way too much however, Indy just cannot run te ball (today they did) and it is a problem. Luck is being asked to carry this team, the same way Manning was for the last few years. And AL is not disappointing. AL is clutch as clutch could be. He is the real deal. And he is excelling in the no huddle yet the staff won't turn him loose yet.

Indy's D is a disaster injury wise and my fear going forward is that Luck is just going to get his skull smashed in sooner or later. Indy has got to start running better.

RG3 is not being asked to do what Luck is. Shanny is handling this young man perfectly IMO. A great running game is a QB's best friend.

It makes the game much easier for any QB. That said RG3 is a Vick that has accuracy. He will be very dangerous if "he stays in the game" .. The only thing I worry about with RG3 is taking too many hits. And the "reported" 2 concussions within the last year. But if he stays healthy he is a matchup nightmare.

Garcon.... man he was a very, very good player for Indy but in the big moments he dropped so many balls. I really would have liked to see him back but not at the money you all gave him. Way too much, IMO.

Great site, sorry for the long rant.

Go Colts...

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Postby Deadskins » Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:52 pm

John Dee wrote:RG3 is not being asked to do what Luck is.

No, he's being asked to do much more. What could you possibly think Luck is being asked to do that RGIII isn't?
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Postby John Dee » Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:26 pm

Deadskins wrote:
John Dee wrote:RG3 is not being asked to do what Luck is.

No, he's being asked to do much more. What could you possibly think Luck is being asked to do that RGIII isn't?


Luck is being asked to make it happen with NO help at all from his OL or running game. If you think it is a mute point then ..... oh well.

Today's Cleveland game was the best effort of the year for our OL and running game. But still way too many dropped passes.

A work in progress. 3-3 baby.

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Postby Irn-Bru » Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:33 pm

Welcome to the site, John Dee. :up:

John Dee wrote:RG3 is not being asked to do what Luck is. Shanny is handling this young man perfectly IMO. A great running game is a QB's best friend.

I agree with a lot of what you say and I think you are right here, too. RGIII went to a team that is a little farther along in rebuilding than Indy. (No offense intended!) His offensive line is a little better, he's got a great running game, and before today he had more than one receiver to throw to. The sheer number of passing attempts tells the story pretty well. Indy is leaning on Luck early and often.


Garcon.... man he was a very, very good player for Indy but in the big moments he dropped so many balls. I really would have liked to see him back but not at the money you all gave him. Way too much, IMO.

I agree but we were in a bit of a bind. After Vincent Jackson, Garcon was the best in a market that was very hungry for WRs. I honestly think that without our cap hit we would have gotten VJ and been much better off. I'm not a fan of building the team through FAs. Oh well. I'm hoping for the best out of Garcon and Morgan while we watch our own draft picks develop.

If these injuries keep flaring up, there is no doubt that we will have overpaid for a bust in Garcon. When he has been healthy, though, we really like what we are seeing in him. Week 1 alone was a great peak at what he can do. The jury is out, objectively speaking, on his worth as an WR; but as a fan I lean toward the optimistic side of seeing it, as always.


Great site, sorry for the long rant.

Long rant? :shock: You must not have been lurking for very long. Wait until you get RayNAustin or one of the other board vets into a debate. :lol:

Thanks for stopping by. I'd like to get more of your perspective on Luck if/when you get the chance. Cheers.
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Postby Bob 0119 » Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:00 pm

We didn't make any real upgrades to our O-Line which was one of the worst last year.

The reason they look as good as they do is because RGIII can stretch the backfield in any direction he likes. When he stands in the pocket you can see there is really very little time for him before the pass rush gets there.

He makes the O-line LOOK better, but when you put someone else in there (like Cousins during ATL) they would get killed just like Luck

I don't want to take too much away from Morris, but seriously, our running game was not really a problem last year with Helu and Royster.

Granted as a sixth round nobody, Morris has been a heckuva surprise, but I think he also benefits from teams trying to key in on RGIII. The man sells the fake like it's nobody's business.

Teams have to respect RGIII's passing ability and accuracy so it means fewer guys jamming up the rushing lanes. That gives Morris just enough to get into the secondary and it's all talent from there.

If Morris were running for Grossman, he would not be having nearly as good a year. Grossman wasn't going to beat you through the air, and he wasn't much of a threat outside the pocket.

Now because teams have to focus on RGIII and Morris it opens up the passing game. If the remaining defenders drop into coverage on the WRs, RGIII will beat them with the TE. If they play shallow he beats them deep with the WRs.

Do you honestly think Luck would play better with Morgan, Moss and Hankerson? Of course not. The only reason these guys are a threat is thanks to RGIII.

As I said; RGIII makes the players around him better. He didn't land a "Cush-job" but it's what he is used to.

He didn't have an O-line in college either.

Luck was considered "a more prototypical pocket passer" than RGIII. Well, that's good, but it means you need the O-line to create a pocket for him. Without that he's just another guy running for his life back there.

RGIII is a scrambler and seems to throw better on the run. A perfect fit for a team without an O-line.
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Postby Countertrey » Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:13 pm

John Dee wrote: That said RG3 is a Vick that has accuracy.


Um... no. The comparison, on it's surface, may seem reasonable, but RGIII is decidedly NOT just an accurate version of Vick. Watch Vick... on any pass play, he will look for his first read... if it's not there, most of the time, he takes off. Watch RGIII. He works his progression, even as he is extending the play. He continues to work until the last possible second to give a receiver the opportunity to get open. Unless there is a MASSIVE hole in front of him that promises a big gain, he will continue to look for a receiver... and you are already aware of his accuracy.

Vick is notorious for bad decisions.

RGIII understands his offense, and has demonatrated an incredible ability to read and understand what defenses are trying to do.

He may have a similar effect on defenses... but while Vick is thinking "RUN" Griffin is thinking "EXTEND" before he thinks "RUN".

Of course, then there are the option reads, that he does SOOOOOOO much better than Vick ever dreamed...

I believe that there will be a career long competition between Luck and RGIII...

Mike Vick has never been good enough to be in a Manning/Brady type of rivalry...
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Postby Bishop Hammer » Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:24 pm

Thanks for starting the thread Darth Monk. In all due fairness I think both teams are going to be biased towards their teams QBs. Both Luck and RGIII are talented so both teams have come out ahead.

By the way its pretty cool your a fan of both teams. A friend recently got into football and both Indy and Was are his favorite teams too. Except he's Colts then Redskins (his Wife is from Ind and she got him into football).

And he hates the Ravens, as well. Reason he chose the Skins is because me and another close mate are both die hard Skins fans. Most importantly he dislikes B-More fans. Us Skins fans are classy and well mannered. "Raisins" fans are obnoxious, in his view point.

He's catching on already lol.
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