Why Can't We Find Gems In The 3rd Round

Talk about the Washington Redskins here. Do you bleed burgundy and gold?
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Postby Red_One43 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:48 pm

the poster wrote:how bout this...can't you just find me a couple of examples of really good players drafted from the 3rd round to the 7th and even undrafted rookies...we'll use the pro bowl as a loose measuring stick because I don't to listen to garbage about guys like Derrick dockery who was a mediocre player his whole career, I'm talking guys that stood out and excelled. maybe went to a pro bowl or two. there's many teams out there who have found them. and the redskins, who are a perrenial last place team, are oneof the few failures with nobody , I guess other than Cooley who they used the same value that one might use to trade up into the end of the first round to draft......heyyyy.....suuuupppper....haha.

If fact, the only reason we didn't have a third was because we gave it up for Boonell. So Boonell cost us the extra 2nd.


If your argument is that Synder and Co sucked at drafitng then you win hands down! If your arguement is many other teams find gems in the third round then your argument is flawed.

First of all, you say "many" but offer no stats to back yourself up.

I posted below the Steelers 3rd round from 1992 to 2011, the same period you used.

They had 26 3rd round picks to our 17. That fits the philosophy of the Steelers - the more picks the better the chances at landing a stud. Shanny seems to have this same philosohy with his 12 picks last year.

The also have a sound philosophy in sticking with the same systems even when they change coaches.

In both the years, Porter and Ward were drafted the Steelers had two 3rd round picks.

Both Porter and Ward were afforded time to develop in the same system.

Mike Wallace came into the league as a burner - he was a great find. He was the only pick.

Look, Cerrato had three 2nd round picks and missed on all three - Yes, we sucked past tense.

A successful draft is more than about picking studs. It is also about having a foundation in whhich to plug the potential studs into. Again, Shanny is trying to build that foundation which is why he asked for five years to do it. Not having the boat load of choices that the Steelers had makes it harder to do it the "right way." It also makes it harder when you don't have the QB on your roster.

Yes, Poster for well over a decade, our FO plain SUCKED! We know that.

I used the example of one of the best FO's and I found three pro bowlers. Mike Vrabel got away to the Pats (better fit for the Pats or too much talent for the Steelers?). Clearly better than the Skins. What about the other "many" teams?

I would love to see it. At least show us the Pats, I would like to see them compared to the Steelers as I am sure that they will be better than us too in the third round.

Hmmm - Didn't Shanny visit the Pats and Steelers during his coaching year off? Need Stud QB. Need Draft Choices?


Curtis Brown 2011
Emmanuel Sanders 2010
Mike Wallace 2009
Keenan Lewis 2009
Bruce Daivs 2008
Matt Spaeth 2007
Willie Reed 2006
Trai Essex 2005
Max Starks 2004
None 2003
Chirs Hope 2002
None 2001
Kendrick Clancy 2000
Hank Poteat 2000
Joey Porter 1999
Kris Farris 1999
Amos Zereoue 1999
Chris Conrad 1998
Hines Ward 1998
Paul Wiggins 1997
Mike Vrabel 1997
Steve Conley 1996
Jon Witman 1996
Brandon Stai 1995
Bam Morris 1994
Ta'ase Faumui 1994
Andre Hastings 1993
Joel Steed 1992

http://www.realredskins.com/rich-tandle ... -gems.html

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Postby Irn-Bru » Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:16 pm

Red_One43 wrote:If your argument is that Synder and Co sucked at drafitng then you win hands down! If your arguement is many other teams find gems in the third round then your argument is flawed.

First of all, you say "many" but offer no stats to back yourself up.


Here's a trolling tactic that I have seen on THN too many times to count: get very, extremely into the minutiae of recent Redskins history, and then contrast it with "many teams" using a hand wave in the direction of the best franchises in the league.

Anyone who thinks about that method for more than a few seconds will see what the problem is.

Like "many teams," the Redskins have been a mediocre franchise this past decade. We've had 2-3 awful seasons, 2-3 decent ones, and the rest fell somewhere in between. This is absolutely nothing new to anyone who has paid attention, and I don't think there's a fan on this site who wouldn't say the same thing.

But a slow, painful crawl through all the ways in which we've had awful and mediocre seasons doesn't really prove anything extra. It's even less useful when paired with generic references to the Patriots, Steelers, Eagles, Ravens, or (less common, due to their crazy owner and tendency to choke hard, though some will reach when trolling Redskins fans) Cowboys.
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Postby Fios » Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:18 pm

Irn-Bru wrote:
Red_One43 wrote:If your argument is that Synder and Co sucked at drafitng then you win hands down! If your arguement is many other teams find gems in the third round then your argument is flawed.

First of all, you say "many" but offer no stats to back yourself up.


Here's a trolling tactic that I have seen on THN too many times to count: get very, extremely into the minutiae of recent Redskins history, and then contrast it with "many teams" using a hand wave in the direction of the best franchises in the league.

Anyone who thinks about that method for more than a few seconds will see what the problem is.

Like "many teams," the Redskins have been a mediocre franchise this past decade. We've had 2-3 awful seasons, 2-3 decent ones, and the rest fell somewhere in between. This is absolutely nothing new to anyone who has paid attention, and I don't think there's a fan on this site who wouldn't say the same thing.

But a slow, painful crawl through all the ways in which we've had awful and mediocre seasons doesn't really prove anything extra. It's even less useful when paired with generic references to the Patriots, Steelers, Eagles, Ravens, or (less common, due to their crazy owner and tendency to choke hard, though some will reach when trolling Redskins fans) Cowboys.


Well said sir
RIP Sean Taylor

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Postby the poster » Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:05 pm

Irn-Bru wrote:if your argument is that Synder and Co sucked at drafitng then you win hands down!


thank you sir.

If your arguement is many other teams find gems in the third round then your argument is flawed.


how so, sir?

First of all, you say "many" but offer no stats to back yourself up.


I just, without even looking it up, named you several players on all the other teams right there in their own division. and that's all the teams I even thought about. I know off the top of my head falcons, bears, patriots all have produced players who excelled later in the draft too. there's 6 teams without even really trying, dude. it's getting less and less flawed and I'm not even really put any effort into it.

but what's most important remains.....washington SUCKS at drafting.


Like "many teams," the Redskins have been a mediocre franchise this past decade. We've had 2-3 awful seasons, 2-3 decent ones, and the rest fell somewhere in between.


absolutely, positively false! and the common coverup by the long suffering redskin fan. see the redskin fan knows their team sucks and has sucked for a long time. like every teams fans, their ego is involved and in places that most people aren't developed enough to understand, they defend their team because their ego doesn't want them associated with a loser (which is what the Snyder owner redskins are).

I look at teams' seasons by what they accomplished. I say a team had a good season if it won a division, or short of that, made the playoffs and won a playoff game.

as I previously wrote in this thread, snyder's involement (another word for destruction) began in 2000. so let's look at the numbers:

12 seasons

8 losing seasons
0 division championships
1 playoff win
5 last place finishes

it is one of the worst decade plus performances in the entire sport. no team, obviously has won less division titles and only a few have had more losing seasons.

dream on, your argument on this topic is utter garbage and you just got owned.

your team shares is in the same company as the browns, bills, jags, lions maybe another team or two. which is the worst of the worst...and your team remains a doormat in the division that the other teams wipe their feet on...and they are even trending in the wrong direction, with not one not two not three but four straight losing last place seasons.

argument, destroyed.

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Postby Mississippiskinsfan2 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:55 pm

the poster wrote:
Irn-Bru wrote:if your argument is that Synder and Co sucked at drafitng then you win hands down!


thank you sir.

If your arguement is many other teams find gems in the third round then your argument is flawed.


how so, sir?

First of all, you say "many" but offer no stats to back yourself up.


I just, without even looking it up, named you several players on all the other teams right there in their own division. and that's all the teams I even thought about. I know off the top of my head falcons, bears, patriots all have produced players who excelled later in the draft too. there's 6 teams without even really trying, dude. it's getting less and less flawed and I'm not even really put any effort into it.

but what's most important remains.....washington SUCKS at drafting.


Like "many teams," the Redskins have been a mediocre franchise this past decade. We've had 2-3 awful seasons, 2-3 decent ones, and the rest fell somewhere in between.


absolutely, positively false! and the common coverup by the long suffering redskin fan. see the redskin fan knows their team sucks and has sucked for a long time. like every teams fans, their ego is involved and in places that most people aren't developed enough to understand, they defend their team because their ego doesn't want them associated with a loser (which is what the Snyder owner redskins are).

I look at teams' seasons by what they accomplished. I say a team had a good season if it won a division, or short of that, made the playoffs and won a playoff game.

as I previously wrote in this thread, snyder's involement (another word for destruction) began in 2000. so let's look at the numbers:

12 seasons

8 losing seasons
0 division championships
1 playoff win
5 last place finishes

it is one of the worst decade plus performances in the entire sport. no team, obviously has won less division titles and only a few have had more losing seasons.

dream on, your argument on this topic is utter garbage and you just got owned.

your team shares is in the same company as the browns, bills, jags, lions maybe another team or two. which is the worst of the worst...and your team remains a doormat in the division that the other teams wipe their feet on...and they are even trending in the wrong direction, with not one not two not three but four straight losing last place seasons.

argument, destroyed.


And? I've been a "redskin" for over 20 years now and going to be a "redskin" no matter if we go 16-0 or 0-16. I love my team and none of your bs will change that. I'm sorry your life sucks so much that you have to come on here and talk about my team to make yourself feel better about it. Sucks to be you. I'm a redskin and proud of it :rock: :rock: :rock:

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Postby Irn-Bru » Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:47 pm

the poster wrote:absolutely, positively false!


Hey, that's the first time I think you've ever addressed an argument of mine! Well, you rise above the stereotype at least: normally when I respond to trolling, the people doing the trolling scatter like cockroaches before light. You've made it this far at least. :up:



and the common coverup by the long suffering redskin fan. see the redskin fan knows their team sucks and has sucked for a long time. like every teams fans, their ego is involved and in places that most people aren't developed enough to understand, they defend their team because their ego doesn't want them associated with a loser (which is what the Snyder owner redskins are).

No ego here. It's all about definitions. You share an unrealistic definition with many in the mainstream that anything short of domination = sucking.

We have a few others on THN who share that view. Something tells me you guys would make fast friends.


I say a team had a good season if it won a division, or short of that, made the playoffs and won a playoff game.

If a team makes the playoffs, it had a good year in my book . . . absent certain mitigating factors like a late-season collapse (Dallas) or winning a historically bad division (Seahawks). Those fans have every right to cry. :lol:


so let's look at the numbers:

12 seasons

8 losing seasons
0 division championships
1 playoff win
5 last place finishes

The Redskins play in a division that's routinely one of the toughest in the league, which I think mitigates the "last place finish" number. For example, one of our last place finishes was an 8-8 season where among other wins we beat the eventual NFC champion Arizona Cardinals. And this past year we beat the Super Bowl winners . . . twice . . . convincingly. Of course, I'm not saying that we were a good team in 2008 or this past year. My guess is you either won't get or won't care about this distinction, but it's there for everyone else to see. My point is that it'd be different if we were in the NFC/AFC West where it's often a race to the bottom.

(Or a division like the AFC East where you have two great teams, a mediocre team, and a terrible team. And again, while we're on the subject, I can't stress enough that you have my heartfelt condolences on your team's having lost to us on the 2nd overall pick and Holmgren's choice of free agent acquisitions. It kind of solidifies your place for another year, but perhaps it'll get better after then. ;))

Of course, you left out that we made the playoffs in 2 seasons, an omission which may have fit the ad hoc definition you developed after scouring pro-football-reference, but meanwhile it has fulfilled my very reasonable criterion of a "good season" that I refered to. So there's 2 good years.

I personally count seasons that have poor records but a clear trend of building strength to be "mediocre." (Personally I enjoy watching them, but overall they don't rise above mediocrity on the absolute scale.) I also count seasons that are around .500 to be mediocre, not terrible. In case you hadn't gathered, I don't do much hyperbole. So, for example, these past two years under Shanahan, watching him clean out the mess left by Cerrato and build a team, were not terrible in my book.

(I'd extend the same assessment to any other team, by the way, lest you think this is "ego" stepping in.)

So looking back at the franchise index for the Skins, it turns out I'm right: 2 playoff teams, 2-3 really ugly years, and the rest were either ~.500 mediocrities or young teams that were building toward something (Schotty, Gibbs, Shanahan).

I mean, I guess you could try to compare it to the Lions, but seriously . . . ROTFALMAO. A team that sets the record for the fewest wins, with a couple 2-win seasons, and win numbers that go 2, 3, 5, 6, 5, 3, 7, 0, 2, 6 is just on an entirely different level of awful. If you disagree, just ask a Lions fan if they think the Skins have been the same level of terrible as the Lions have been the past ten years. Believe me, those fans know pain, and they know truly awful.


argument, destroyed.

ROTFALMAO

Don't worry. You'll get there someday. Best of luck to you! :up:
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Postby Countertrey » Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:08 pm

I find it difficult to understand why anyone would engage the poser.
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Postby Red_One43 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:10 pm

Red_One43 wrote:
First of all, you say "many" but offer no stats to back yourself up.


Poster wrote:
I just, without even looking it up, named you several players on all the other teams right there in their own division. and that's all the teams I even thought about. I know off the top of my head falcons, bears, patriots all have produced players who excelled later in the draft too. there's 6 teams without even really trying, dude. it's getting less and less flawed and I'm not even really put any effort into it.


There are 32 teams. How many teams make "many" by your count? 6? Six is several? And remember by your criteria for the thread is the third round and you said later, that the Pro Bowl as the standard. You have discounted just beccoming starters. So, define "many" and "several." That would help with your argument.

Give me some facts for your claims.

The link below is data for some who did there homework. This person's overall results don't actually support you "off the top of your head claims.

Here is the summary of this guy's work.

Note - That the Redskins did as well as Belichick.
Note - Shanahan (our current drafter) did better than the Redskins, Pats and slighly behind the Steelers.
Note - You agree that the one 3rd round pick of Shanny - Hankerson - is a possibility of being a Pro Bowler. So that is one of one. Perry Riley a 4th rounder is looked promising as a first year starter.

Question for you, Poster. Why are bashing an FO that is no longer with the team? Sure Synder his here, but he isn't involved in drafting.

Kerrigan looked very good last year. Jenkins was looking very good. Hank looked very good against Miami. Helu, the 4th rounder looked very good. Wow! That's 1-2-3-4!


So, here they are, head to head (to head):

Shanahan – Belichick – Colbert - Redskins
Picks per season: 8.2 – 8.6 - 7.7 – 6.7
First Round Success: 61% - 72% - 100% - 63%
Second Round Success: 50% - 38% - 50% - 50%
Third Round Success: 35% - 19% - 28% - 33%
Fourth Round Success: 33% - 39% - 40% - 0%
Fifth Round Success: 25% - 11% - 29% - 0%
Sixth Round Success: 36% - 7%- 25% - 25%
Seventh Round Success: 23% - 23% - 11% - 13%
TOTAL SUCCESS RATE: 37% - 29% - 39% - 29%


Check out the link to see how the guy arrived at his stats.

Tell me what you think.

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread. ... nd-Colbert)-(and-the-Snyder-Redskins)


http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread. ... nd-Colbert)-(and-the-Snyder-Redskins)
Last edited by Red_One43 on Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Hooligan » Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:15 pm

Countertrey wrote:I find it difficult to understand why anyone would engage the poser.


It's easier to successfully troll this forum than it is to root against the cowboys. Everyone just has to join in, thinking their counter-argument is really going to do anything. :roll:
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Postby Deadskins » Sun Apr 15, 2012 3:34 am

Irn-Bru wrote:
the poster wrote:absolutely, positively false!


Hey, that's the first time I think you've ever addressed an argument of mine!

Actually she didn't. She addressed Red_One43's argument and misquoted you as the author. #-o

Red_One, I know it's difficult, but please don't feed the troll, it will only make it come back to get fed again.
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Postby 1niksder » Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:25 am

Countertrey wrote:I find it difficult to understand why anyone would engage the poser.

I-B is Very engaging.... He thinks without thinking

He comes up with a response while reading what he responding to (this is nothing like responding without reading... as we now know some of us pert take in). then once he has his response ready to post, he RE-READS what he's responding to, to make sure he hasn't touched on something already covered (I think he has a thing about redundancy), and fills in any gaps that he may runs across.

Note I rarely get into it with him (I argue to waste time, debating FfA is all work)

That being said. I'm amazed that the pos er keeps coming up with complete sentences while banging his head on his keyboard.
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Postby Red_One43 » Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:28 am

Deadskins wrote:
Irn-Bru wrote:
the poster wrote:absolutely, positively false!


Hey, that's the first time I think you've ever addressed an argument of mine!

Actually she didn't. She addressed Red_One43's argument and misquoted you as the author. #-o

Red_One, I know it's difficult, but please don't feed the troll, it will only make it come back to get fed again.


They always come back even when they say they quit. :) Are we feeding the Poster or is the Poster feeding us? Each of have our own reasons to respond to such negative posts as the Poster. We learn a lot when we disagree. Looking up all of those team draft histories has been enlightening. Yes, there is always a time to hit the "ignore" button, but that is for each one to decide for himself. They always come back even when they say they quit. :)

BTW: The Poster did respond to Irn.

Irn Bru wrote:

Like "many teams," the Redskins have been a mediocre franchise this past decade. We've had 2-3 awful seasons, 2-3 decent ones, and the rest fell somewhere in between.


The Poster Wrote:

absolutely, positively false! and the common coverup by the long suffering redskin fan. see the redskin fan knows their team sucks and has sucked for a long time. like every teams fans, their ego is involved and in places that most people aren't developed enough to understand, they defend their team because their ego doesn't want them associated with a loser (which is what the Snyder owner redskins are).

I look at teams' seasons by what they accomplished. I say a team had a good season if it won a division, or short of that, made the playoffs and won a playoff game.

as I previously wrote in this thread, snyder's involement (another word for destruction) began in 2000. so let's look at the numbers:

12 seasons

8 losing seasons
0 division championships
1 playoff win
5 last place finishes

it is one of the worst decade plus performances in the entire sport. no team, obviously has won less division titles and only a few have had more losing seasons.

dream on, your argument on this topic is utter garbage and you just got owned.

your team shares is in the same company as the browns, bills, jags, lions maybe another team or two. which is the worst of the worst...and your team remains a doormat in the division that the other teams wipe their feet on...and they are even trending in the wrong direction, with not one not two not three but four straight losing last place seasons.

argument, destroyed.

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Postby Irn-Bru » Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:10 am

Red_One43 wrote:They always come back even when they say they quit. :) Are we feeding the Poster or is the Poster feeding us? Each of have our own reasons to respond to such negative posts as the Poster. We learn a lot when we disagree. Looking up all of those team draft histories has been enlightening. Yes, there is always a time to hit the "ignore" button, but that is for each one to decide for himself. They always come back even when they say they quit. :)

I agree. What counts as feeding a troll is taking their bait: either condescending to a never-ending, pointless back and forth or having an emotional knee-jerk reaction to what they say. Not calling them out on a bad argument. If this is all poster has then chances are he and I are already done talking.


BTW: The Poster did respond to Irn.

Yep, just some quote mixups. Nothing I haven't done before myself. :oops:
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Postby Deadskins » Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:50 pm

Irn-Bru wrote:
Red_One43 wrote:They always come back even when they say they quit. :) Are we feeding the Poster or is the Poster feeding us? Each of have our own reasons to respond to such negative posts as the Poster. We learn a lot when we disagree. Looking up all of those team draft histories has been enlightening. Yes, there is always a time to hit the "ignore" button, but that is for each one to decide for himself. They always come back even when they say they quit. :)

I agree. What counts as feeding a troll is taking their bait: either condescending to a never-ending, pointless back and forth or having an emotional knee-jerk reaction to what they say. Not calling them out on a bad argument. If this is all poster has then chances are he and I are already done talking.

But if no one acknowledges them, they wither on the vine. Even calling them out on a bad argument fills them with a sense of self worth, at having made you spend your time rebutting them. It doesn't matter what promises they make to leave, if you don't let them in the door in the first place. :wink:
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Postby the poster » Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:37 am

Irn-Bru wrote:
Hey, that's the first time I think you've ever addressed an argument of mine! Well, you rise above the stereotype at least: normally when I respond to trolling, the people doing the trolling scatter like cockroaches before light. You've made it this far at least. :up:


I appreciate that, sir.


No ego here.


it absolutely is. listen, every single fan has ego invested, regardless of team or sport they follow. their choice to BE a fan of a team ALONE is rooted in ego.

I won't get all Philosophical on you, I mean, after all, this is a place filled with football fans....there's no Mensa convention going to break out here.


all about definitions. You share an unrealistic definition with many in the mainstream that anything short of domination = sucking.


ok, there's your first mistake. or lie. or whatever it is. go ahead....show me where I stated either one dominates or they suck? forget it, don't waste your time, I never said that.

but I did define what I consider "a good football season". it's my definition. we obviously won't agree on it. you've got a lower bar for your definition (and it's not a coincidence that you're a redskins fan because without a low bar you'd have NO argument).

since the NFL instituted the salary cap, the talent level expectedly has leveled and one of the end results to that is we have seen many mediocre, forgettable teams make the playoffs. this should be agreed upon by all and should be understood as fact.

and so the natural followup to that sentence is the fact that, in my opinion, and I'd like to think the opinion of many, that just because a team made the post season tournament doesn't change the fact that they're still a mediocre team.

you mention the redskins of 2005 and 2007. they were 1-2 in the playoffs and if I'm not mistaken both were having typical pitiful redskin seasons (under .500) until the last month. your only argument in TWELVE seasons are these two teams, 6th seeded wild cards, who were LOsErS most of the season and were dumped out of the playoffs pretty quick. I'm sorry, I know your ego, I don't really care if you think it's not, staff member of the redskins forum, but I don't think much of those teams..they were average teams who had a very good run in December...but nothing more than that.

ok, look what you had me do, though. you're a good defense attorney. look at how much time you had me spend on those two seasons. care to talk about the records of the TEN other seasons?????

The Redskins play in a division that's routinely one of the toughest in the league, which I think mitigates the "last place finish" number.


I'm so mad at myself now. I knew when I listed the FACTs of the pitiful redskin regime under Snyder, that like a sniveling little greasy cheap attorney, you'll go scrambling for any sort of defense.

I KNEW you were gonna say "but but but but we play in a tough division".

yeah "..........guess what......I DON'T CARE.

I don't care that you been destroyed, beat up, kicked around, and had the cowboys, eagles, and giants collectively wipe their feet on your face for the better part of TWELVE seasons.

guess what...those three teams......they also play in this ToUGH division. and everyone of them has won the division in that time except your team. do u really think your team is all that hot outside of the division? the redskins SUCK everywhere...inside, outside, up and down. you don't go 5-11 just because your division is hard (which only had playoff team is past year). oh boo hoo, let's make excuses for the poor redskins now. they're division is tough...wahhhhh.


For example, one of our last place finishes was an 8-8 season where among



once. what about the others? they were 5-11, 5-11, 6-10, 4-12. pathetic.


My point is that it'd be different if we were in the NFC/AFC West where it's often a race to the bottom.


no, your real point is "our team is a loser and if we could only be in a division of other losers we would look better.". that's the loser mentality for you, right there, on display.

you're the big bad redskins. with the owner with bazillions of dollars, you've got famous actors hangin out at your games, youd spend a trillion dollars on your teams salary if the league would just let you, I'm not putting you in another division just so u worm your way out of what hAS ALREADY TAKEN place......being the doormat to your division and a non entity to the league on the field.



I personally count seasons that have poor records but a clear trend of building strength to be "mediocre."


yeah whatever dude. you sound like a little weasel. just read your sentence again. it sounds like the pathetic murmurs of a loser mentality.

I tell u what, you can call the pathetic seasons your team has had mediocre all you want. I don't see it, but were not going to agree n how to define it..so..with that said....I go back to the FACTS of this case...

12 seasons, 8 losing seasons. find me teams with the same or more than that. that's the company the redskins keep.


So, for example, these past two years under Shanahan, watching him clean out the mess left by Cerrato


he got to redskins park and one of the first things he did was continue a cerrato tradition and traded a HIgH DrAFt pick for a piece of garbage.

two years in, it was the same old redskins with cerrato, 3 different qbs played, all of them sucked...what's new...nothing.....

u still have not a SINGLE elite player on your roster...the ONly player that I would say other fans would look at and say man, I'd love to have him on my team was Sean Taylor, but u obviously don't have him anymore either.

what do u have now? orakpo, kerrigan, t. Williams, f. Davis.....those are all good but not elite football players. and those are the best players u Have


I mean, I guess you could try to compare it to the Lions,

:up:


when I know ive destroyed a redskins fan in argument, he has done one of the few tell tale signs of failure...

* cites the fact that his team is in a tough division ( in response to their pathetic DEcADe long miserable existence)
* compares their pathetic teams output to the lowest of the low in the NFL.....known as bottom feeding, this is how the ego defends itself....it sea he's for something, anything to make it feel right. but but but but the lions are even worse.....

and you resign yourself to both bottom feeding tactics....tell you what...you will have succeeded in this argument when you decide to quit while you're behind and your TEAM ( god for bid, redskin fans) backs you up FIRSt and then you can talk, of course, we know that'll never happen..

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