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riggofan
Hog
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 2942
Location: Montclair, Virginia
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| Deadskins wrote: | | riggofan wrote: | | Deadskins wrote: | | 1niksder wrote: | | Deadskins wrote: | | 1niksder wrote: | | What would you do to free up space? |
Wait for the arbitrator to rule. |
Need a rookie pool of $6.5M prior to the draft in ADDITION to the rule of 51, After the draft space will be needed for injuries... the arbitrator doesn't have time restraints the team has 09 Days, 01 Hours, 28 Minutes, 09 Seconds. |
We'll see. |
We'll see? You're anticipating that we will get an arbitration date set, go to arbitration AND get a ruling all in the next nine days? Hopefully the Skins FO isn't banking on that...  |
They have more info than we do on the process. I'm thinking the hearings may have already taken place, and they are awaiting the ruling. |
Well that is clearly wrong. Its all over the news today that the arbitration date is set for "sometime in May". |
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riggofan
Hog
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 2942
Location: Montclair, Virginia
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:01 am Post subject: |
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| SkinsJock wrote: | not agreeing with the Dead man but ...
the arbitrator's not ruling on this by now is not good for the Skins ... IMHO
I think the hearings have been held and if the arbitrator thought that the pukes and the Redskins had been wrongly treated he would have addressed this sooner than later .....
hopefully that's misguided ...  |
Fortunately for everyone your paranoia is massively misguided. |
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The Hogster
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Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 7002
Location: Washington D.C.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:35 am Post subject: |
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Beck, Doughty & Gaffney = gone.
Restructure Hall |
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1niksder
**********
Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Posts: 16578
Location: If I knew ... it would explain a lot but I've seen Homerville on a map, that wasn't helpful at all
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| riggofan wrote: | | Deadskins wrote: | | riggofan wrote: | | Deadskins wrote: | | 1niksder wrote: | | Deadskins wrote: | | 1niksder wrote: | | What would you do to free up space? |
Wait for the arbitrator to rule. |
Need a rookie pool of $6.5M prior to the draft in ADDITION to the rule of 51, After the draft space will be needed for injuries... the arbitrator doesn't have time restraints the team has 09 Days, 01 Hours, 28 Minutes, 09 Seconds. |
We'll see. |
We'll see? You're anticipating that we will get an arbitration date set, go to arbitration AND get a ruling all in the next nine days? Hopefully the Skins FO isn't banking on that... |
They have more info than we do on the process. I'm thinking the hearings may have already taken place, and they are awaiting the ruling. |
Well that is clearly wrong. Its all over the news today that the arbitration date is set for "sometime in May". |
Redskins to have hearing in May
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The Hogster
#######
Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 7002
Location: Washington D.C.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| SkinsJock wrote: | not agreeing with the Dead man but ...
the arbitrator's not ruling on this by now is not good for the Skins ... IMHO
I think the hearings have been held and if the arbitrator thought that the pukes and the Redskins had been wrongly treated he would have addressed this sooner than later .....
hopefully that's misguided ...
Before the FO restructures Davis contract they need to be certain that he's made a HUGE turnaround
I don't care how good a player is if he's not TOTALLY committed - and he clearly demonstrated where his priorities were
I had huge hopes for Davis and am REALLY pissed off about the choices he (and Trent Williams) made |
Hearings are scheduled for May.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/18/hearing-coming-in-may-on-redskins-cowboys-cap-grievance/ |
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skinsfan#33
#33
Joined: 24 Jul 2004
Posts: 3875
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:37 am Post subject: |
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| 1niksder wrote: | | riggofan wrote: | | Deadskins wrote: | | 1niksder wrote: | | Deadskins wrote: | | 1niksder wrote: | | What would you do to free up space? |
Wait for the arbitrator to rule. |
Need a rookie pool of $6.5M prior to the draft in ADDITION to the rule of 51, After the draft space will be needed for injuries... the arbitrator doesn't have time restraints the team has 09 Days, 01 Hours, 28 Minutes, 09 Seconds. |
We'll see. |
We'll see? You're anticipating that we will get an arbitration date set, go to arbitration AND get a ruling all in the next nine days? Hopefully the Skins FO isn't banking on that... |
No they aren't |
1nik,
Are you sure they have to have the $6.5M available prior to the draft? The final rookie pool won't be set until they know how players were drafted and when and where they were drafted.
Then they won't be signed until July, so why would we need cap space before we actually sign our players. Heck, there isn't anything that says you even HAVE TO sign all of your players. Not signing them would again change your pool.
So why would you need the cap space for a pick you may or may not select. Heck, the Skins could decide to trade all of their picks from rounds 3 through 7 for future picks and would only have to sign their #1 pick. If they did that (which they won't) they wouldn't have a pool of $6.5M any more. |
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skinsfan#33
#33
Joined: 24 Jul 2004
Posts: 3875
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:49 am Post subject: |
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Back on topis for me.
Off the list would be cutting:
> Gaffney, Hall, or Cooley (the team just needs them too darn much!)
Possible moves:
> Trade Gaffney or Cooley (only if the pick has real value)
> Cut Moss (or Trade if you can find a taker)
Prefered
> Sign Fred Flintstoner to a long term deal
> Sign Gaffney to one of those two year "five year" deals to lower his cap number
> Same for Cooley
> get Cooooley, Moss, and/or Gaffney to just take a pay cut.
> did i say sign Fred Drugavis to a long term deal? |
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1niksder
**********
Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Posts: 16578
Location: If I knew ... it would explain a lot but I've seen Homerville on a map, that wasn't helpful at all
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:55 am Post subject: |
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My understanding is ....They need to have it prior to the draft, but the thing is with the way rookies are slotted now, they'll only need about $5M to cover the picks. Once they are drafted and signed the rule of 51 kicks back in.
Prior to the draft it's Rule of 51 + rookie pool.
This is a good explanation of how it is set up |
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KazooSkinsFan
kazoo
Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 10021
Location: Kazmania
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| The Hogster wrote: | Beck, Doughty & Gaffney = gone.
Restructure Hall |
It's hard to argue with that list |
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Deadskins
JSPB22
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
Posts: 14718
Location: Location, LOCATION!
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| riggofan wrote: | | Deadskins wrote: | | riggofan wrote: | | Deadskins wrote: | | 1niksder wrote: | | Deadskins wrote: | | 1niksder wrote: | | What would you do to free up space? |
Wait for the arbitrator to rule. |
Need a rookie pool of $6.5M prior to the draft in ADDITION to the rule of 51, After the draft space will be needed for injuries... the arbitrator doesn't have time restraints the team has 09 Days, 01 Hours, 28 Minutes, 09 Seconds. |
We'll see. |
We'll see? You're anticipating that we will get an arbitration date set, go to arbitration AND get a ruling all in the next nine days? Hopefully the Skins FO isn't banking on that... |
They have more info than we do on the process. I'm thinking the hearings may have already taken place, and they are awaiting the ruling. |
Well that is clearly wrong. Its all over the news today that the arbitration date is set for "sometime in May". |
Yes, but I posted my message yesterday, so I didn't know that. I guess we'll have to restructure some contracts prior to the draft. |
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skinsfan#33
#33
Joined: 24 Jul 2004
Posts: 3875
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| 1niksder wrote: | My understanding is ....They need to have it prior to the draft, but the thing is with the way rookies are slotted now, they'll only need about $5M to cover the picks. Once they are drafted and signed the rule of 51 kicks back in.
Prior to the draft it's Rule of 51 + rookie pool.
This is a good explanation of how it is set up |
1Nik,
I read the whole thing and it never said anything about having to have the rookie pool cap space available at the begining of the draft. I did find a part really interesting:
| Quote: | "By way of example, in 2011, let’s assume that a Team X had a rookie pool of $4.578M for their 8 draft picks. This is the team’s “rookie salary pool” and is based on the number of the team’s draft picks and where those picks were drafted.
However this doesn’t mean that Team X needed $4.578M in Cap space in order to fit their rookies under the overall Salary Cap." |
In fact it led me to believe that you really don't know what your rookie cap pool could be until after you make all of your draft selections and you may not need that entire amount of cap space until opening day.
Last edited by skinsfan#33 on Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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1niksder
**********
Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Posts: 16578
Location: If I knew ... it would explain a lot but I've seen Homerville on a map, that wasn't helpful at all
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| 1niksder wrote: | | riggofan wrote: | | Deadskins wrote: | | riggofan wrote: | | Deadskins wrote: | | 1niksder wrote: | | Deadskins wrote: | | 1niksder wrote: | | What would you do to free up space? |
Wait for the arbitrator to rule. |
Need a rookie pool of $6.5M prior to the draft in ADDITION to the rule of 51, After the draft space will be needed for injuries... the arbitrator doesn't have time restraints the team has 09 Days, 01 Hours, 28 Minutes, 09 Seconds. |
We'll see. |
We'll see? You're anticipating that we will get an arbitration date set, go to arbitration AND get a ruling all in the next nine days? Hopefully the Skins FO isn't banking on that... |
They have more info than we do on the process. I'm thinking the hearings may have already taken place, and they are awaiting the ruling. |
Well that is clearly wrong. Its all over the news today that the arbitration date is set for "sometime in May". |
Redskins to have hearing in May
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Will take place before Stephen Burbank on May 10 |
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1niksder
**********
Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Posts: 16578
Location: If I knew ... it would explain a lot but I've seen Homerville on a map, that wasn't helpful at all
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| skinsfan#33 wrote: | | 1niksder wrote: | My understanding is ....They need to have it prior to the draft, but the thing is with the way rookies are slotted now, they'll only need about $5M to cover the picks. Once they are drafted and signed the rule of 51 kicks back in.
Prior to the draft it's Rule of 51 + rookie pool.
This is a good explanation of how it is set up |
1Nik,
I read the whole thing and it never said anything about having to have the rookie pool cap space available at the begining of the draft. I did find a part really interesting:
| Quote: | "By way of example, in 2011, let’s assume that a Team X had a rookie pool of $4.578M for their 8 draft picks. This is the team’s “rookie salary pool” and is based on the number of the team’s draft picks and where those picks were drafted.
However this doesn’t mean that Team X needed $4.578M in Cap space in order to fit their rookies under the overall Salary Cap." |
In fact it led me to believe that you really don't know what your rookie cap pool could be until after you make all of your draft selections and you may not need that entire amount of cap space until opening day. |
Again the salaries are slotted and structured....
7 draft picks at $390k per = $2,730,000 for base salaries....
Bonus money =$4,110,000
Pick #2 - $14.5M or $3,625,000 on 2012 Cap
Pick #69 - $700K or $175,000 on 2012 Cap
Pick #102 - $460K or $115,000 on 2012 Cap
Pick #109 - $452K or $113,000 on 2012 Cap
Pick #141 - $172K or $43,000 on 2012 Cap
Pick #173 - $96K or $24,000 on 2012 Cap
Pick #213 - $60K or $15,000 on 2012 Cap
Total $6.8M |
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Deadskins
JSPB22
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
Posts: 14718
Location: Location, LOCATION!
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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| 1niksder wrote: | | skinsfan#33 wrote: | | 1niksder wrote: | My understanding is ....They need to have it prior to the draft, but the thing is with the way rookies are slotted now, they'll only need about $5M to cover the picks. Once they are drafted and signed the rule of 51 kicks back in.
Prior to the draft it's Rule of 51 + rookie pool.
This is a good explanation of how it is set up |
1Nik,
I read the whole thing and it never said anything about having to have the rookie pool cap space available at the begining of the draft. I did find a part really interesting:
| Quote: | "By way of example, in 2011, let’s assume that a Team X had a rookie pool of $4.578M for their 8 draft picks. This is the team’s “rookie salary pool” and is based on the number of the team’s draft picks and where those picks were drafted.
However this doesn’t mean that Team X needed $4.578M in Cap space in order to fit their rookies under the overall Salary Cap." |
In fact it led me to believe that you really don't know what your rookie cap pool could be until after you make all of your draft selections and you may not need that entire amount of cap space until opening day. |
Again the salaries are slotted and structured....
7 draft picks at $390k per = $2,730,000 for base salaries....
Bonus money =$4,110,000
Pick #2 - $14.5M or $3,625,000 on 2012 Cap
Pick #69 - $700K or $175,000 on 2012 Cap
Pick #102 - $460K or $115,000 on 2012 Cap
Pick #109 - $452K or $113,000 on 2012 Cap
Pick #141 - $172K or $43,000 on 2012 Cap
Pick #173 - $96K or $24,000 on 2012 Cap
Pick #213 - $60K or $15,000 on 2012 Cap
Total $6.8M |
But what about his point that we might decide to trade some of those picks away? Wouldn't that cap space not be determined until after the draft is complete? |
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1niksder
**********
Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Posts: 16578
Location: If I knew ... it would explain a lot but I've seen Homerville on a map, that wasn't helpful at all
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Deadskins wrote: | | 1niksder wrote: | | skinsfan#33 wrote: | | 1niksder wrote: | My understanding is ....They need to have it prior to the draft, but the thing is with the way rookies are slotted now, they'll only need about $5M to cover the picks. Once they are drafted and signed the rule of 51 kicks back in.
Prior to the draft it's Rule of 51 + rookie pool.
This is a good explanation of how it is set up |
1Nik,
I read the whole thing and it never said anything about having to have the rookie pool cap space available at the begining of the draft. I did find a part really interesting:
| Quote: | "By way of example, in 2011, let’s assume that a Team X had a rookie pool of $4.578M for their 8 draft picks. This is the team’s “rookie salary pool” and is based on the number of the team’s draft picks and where those picks were drafted.
However this doesn’t mean that Team X needed $4.578M in Cap space in order to fit their rookies under the overall Salary Cap." |
In fact it led me to believe that you really don't know what your rookie cap pool could be until after you make all of your draft selections and you may not need that entire amount of cap space until opening day. |
Again the salaries are slotted and structured....
7 draft picks at $390k per = $2,730,000 for base salaries....
Bonus money =$4,110,000
Pick #2 - $14.5M or $3,625,000 on 2012 Cap
Pick #69 - $700K or $175,000 on 2012 Cap
Pick #102 - $460K or $115,000 on 2012 Cap
Pick #109 - $452K or $113,000 on 2012 Cap
Pick #141 - $172K or $43,000 on 2012 Cap
Pick #173 - $96K or $24,000 on 2012 Cap
Pick #213 - $60K or $15,000 on 2012 Cap
Total $6.8M |
But what about his point that we might decide to trade some of those picks away? Wouldn't that cap space not be determined until after the draft is complete? |
The space needed is for picks held prior to the draft. Let's look at that anyway....
Trading down would lower the space needed to cover lower picks, moving up may cost a little more but again the pool is almost always more than what is needed. Last year the Redskins came out of the draft with almost twice as many picks as they had going in but the pool covered it. It is cap space needed in addition to the top 51 players, trading a player for picks would result in freeing up cap space and adding a pick that more than likely won't be in the top 51.
Trading picks for players are different as the player more than likely won't be a incoming rookie, and only lessen money that will come out of the pool.
Trades made prior to the draft will change the pool number... prior to moving up to #2 I was thinking the pool would be around $7.5M |
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