Criticsm of RG3 surfaces

Talk about the Washington Redskins here. Do you bleed burgundy and gold?
DarthMonk
Posts: 4129
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 4:58 pm

Re: Criticsm of RG3 surfaces

Postby DarthMonk » Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:55 pm

I believe right now we are tied for 1st. I also believe the Browns have picked before us 3 of the past 4 drafts (that would include this draft before the trade).

Good thing for the Browns that they won't be picking the selfish wonderlic idiot with no pocket presence.

the poster wrote:you're not getting rg3 though so forget about him....he's a Cleveland brown....and your meaningless win vs the giants at the end of the year cost u him (thank u very much).

you guys will get something like Matt Flynn plus Ryan tannehill. enjoy.


the poster wrote:I'm always right.


So glad.

DarthMonk
Hog Bowl III, V Champion (2011, 2013)

Hognostication Champion (2011, 2013)


Scalp 'em, Swamp 'em,
We will take 'em big score!
Read 'em, Weep 'em Touchdown,
We want heap more!

FanFromAnnapolis
Posts: 10965
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 6:01 pm
Location: on the bandwagon

Postby Irn-Bru » Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:06 pm

Funny how this thread started with alleged criticism that had newly "surfaced" . . . but quickly backpeddled back into the same old sour grapes that have been around since early March. :lol:

Well, I laugh, but it's kind of sad, really . . .
"Last year I thought we'd win it all. This year I know we will." - Rex Ryan, on what would become the 8-8 2011 Jets

"Dream team." - Vince Young, on what would become the 8-8 2011 Eagles

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 348
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:56 pm

Postby rskin72 » Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:39 pm

Ok Countertrey i will bite. Why would u be happy with no replies to this thread......what am i missing?
A winning effort begins with preparation.
Failures are expected by losers, ignored by winners.

Quotes by Joe Gibbs

**********
User avatar
Posts: 16742
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:45 pm
Location: If I knew ... it would explain a lot but I've seen Homerville on a map, that wasn't helpful at all

Postby 1niksder » Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:32 pm

He's into starving trolls
..__..
{o,o}
|)__)
-"-"-

When you reach the end of your rope, tie a knot in it and hold on....

If the world didn't suck we'd all fall off

Hog
Online
User avatar
Posts: 1882
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:36 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Postby emoses14 » Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:47 am

Some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Image

CT and deadskins, that's my last post to this flaming thread. Promise.
I know he got a pretty good zip on the ball. He has a quick release. . . once I seen a coupla' throws, I was just like 'Yeah, he's that dude.'"

-Santana Moss on Our QB

the 'mudge
Posts: 14250
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:15 pm
Location: Curmudgeon Corner, Maine

Postby Countertrey » Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:32 am

1niksder wrote:He's into starving trolls


Yes. There's nothing more beautiful than a troll, languishing with kwashiorkor.
"That's a clown question, bro"
- - - - - - - - - - Bryce Harper, DC Statesman
"But Oz never did give nothing to the Tin Man
That he didn't, didn't already have"
- - - - - - - - - - Dewey Bunnell, America

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 291
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:51 pm

Postby Mississippiskinsfan2 » Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:10 pm

Late criticism of RG3 merely the annual trip in the time machine
By Mike Freeman | CBSSports.com National NFL Insider

So here we go again. Another draft, another franchise quarterback who happens to be black, portrayed as fake and selfish. Your turn under the racial microscope, Robert Griffin III. Congratulations!

There's no weed, jail, hookers, meth, pick-pocketing, ho'ing, schmo'ing, Wonderlic-blowing, car jackin', tantrum-throwing, grade fixing or middle finger raising that has been associated with Griffin. By almost every account, by almost any rational person in the NFL who has met him, the biggest two words you hear about Griffin are: class act.

Said one NFL scout to me on Friday: "He's a total gentleman." In meeting Griffin at the combine that was my impression as well.

Now, everyone has their issues and secrets. None of this is to portray Griffin as Nelson Mandela. But he's also not the person described by two scouts in the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel. One said this: "Everybody is just assuming because of the Heisman and the socks and all that B.S. ... they are ignoring a lot of bad tape that he's had. I don't think he has vision or pocket feel, which to me are the two most important components of quarterbacking. He's just running around winging it. He's [Michael] Vick, but not as good a thrower.'

"He has better arm action and is more accurate with his deep ball, but he's not as good as Cam Newton. As much as is written about his athleticism, his athleticism under duress in the pocket isn't even close to Cam Newton's. This guy, the only way he gets big plays with his feet is if he's got a wide-open field and the sea opens for him. He's got a little bit of a selfish streak, too. Everybody was laying that on Cam, but for some reason this guy has become gloves off. He doesn't treat anybody good."

A second scout also questioned how Griffin treats others.

First, those scouts compare Griffin only to other black quarterbacks, which is interesting, because I've never felt compelled to compare Larry Bird only to Rick Barry. But for some reason, a significant number of NFL scouts have it stuck in their antiquated heads that black throwers can only be compared to other black throwers, and in this case, RG3 can only be compared to Vick or Newton. Griffin is actually more like a young Aaron Rodgers.

Most of all, when it comes to black quarterbacks expected to go high in the draft, or drafted at all, every year we step into a time machine, and large chunks of the NFL travel back decades to an era when teams looked for any reason not to draft a black thrower. They were too dumb or too inaccurate or were selfish. Buzz words, excuses, balderdash. Just when you think we've entered a post-racial NFL -- or dreamed about a post-racial NFL -- idiocy like this happens.

And it's happened to so many, too numerous to count: Willie Thrower, Marlin Briscoe, James Harris, Joe Gilliam, Warren Moon and Doug Williams, to name a few. Last draft, it happened to Cam Newton.

Yes, indeed, here we go again. Last year, Pro Football Weekly's Nolan Nawrocki wrote about Newton's "fake smile."

There was this from Nawrocki: "Negatives: Played in a simplified, run-first, dive-option read offense with very basic high-low reads. Worked exclusively out of the gun and was very quick to run at the first flash of coverage. Limited field vision -- does not process the passing game. Inconsistent throwing mechanics with a flick delivery -- generates all of his power from his upper-body strength and too often arms the ball. Streaky passer with spotty accuracy. Makes his receivers work hard and throws into coverage. Does not spin a tight spiral. Very disingenuous -- has a fake smile, comes off as very scripted and has a selfish, me-first makeup. Always knows where the cameras are and plays to them. Has an enormous ego with a sense of entitlement that continually invites trouble and makes him believe he is above the law -- does not command respect from teammates and always will struggle to win a locker room. Only a one-year producer. Lacks accountability, focus and trustworthiness -- is not punctual, seeks shortcuts and sets a bad example. Immature and has had issues with authority. Not dependable."

Newton sure did stink last year. He took that fake ass smile all the way to one of the best rookie seasons in league history.

All potential draft picks get the once over by scouts and media. It's part of the business. But black quarterbacks aren't just picked over. They're attacked.

When a guy who seems to be a genuine goody two-shoes (or two-socks) like Griffin is portrayed as phony less than a week before the draft, when nothing like that has ever been stated before, something strange is at work.

"You could say [I'm] surprised, but you never know," Griffin told CBSSports.com on Friday. "It's just when the draft gets closer, everybody's going to try and find something wrong with you to try and pull you down, so I'm not going to sit here and argue that, well that guy is dead wrong. But I think the people that know me -- and even in the people in the media have seen -- know I'm not a selfish guy. You know you don't have to fight your own battles -- let other people fight them for you. That's about all I can say about that. I heard it, but it's not something I'm going to address."

Another year, another draft, another franchise quarterback who happens to be black, portrayed as fake and selfish.

You're officially part of the NFL Draft now, Robert. Congratulations!

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:31 pm
Location: D.C.

Postby Red_One43 » Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:03 pm

^Great Article!

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 348
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:56 pm

Postby rskin72 » Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:38 pm

CT, I didn't notice that the poster had started this thread, but it has been a topic of conversation for the past couple of days......so, even though the poster started this thread maybe trying to dampen the spirits of Skin fans on their new soon to be QB, certainly all of the responses I have heard thusfar have repudiated the two "scouts" opinions in question...especially the one who questions the playmaking ability of RGIII. The other one, the character assaination attempt, is just plain dumb as ther is no other evidence I have read or heard to support that conclusion.

Now, RGIII may not work out.....but certainly there is nothing at this point in time that would indicate anything other than the great chance that he will be at least a very good QB in this league.

These "scouts" may be trying to plant negative hype on RGIII to ensure that Irsay actually does take Luck with the first pick....and does not have a last minute change of heart.

That said, I disagree with the premise of the argument of Mike Freeman. Once again the race card is thrown where none needs to be, IMHO. RGIII was going to be drafted no lower than second....so all the character make believe stories in the world is not going to change that. Do you really think that Mike and Bruce are losing sleep over this? Cam had some negatives in his history while he was at Florida.....and his draft status was in flux....but even the negative press he received did not prevent the Panthers from correctly taking him as the first pick in last years draft. Heck, I remember the draft with Peyton Manning and Ryan Leaf....where many talking heads preferred Leaf over Manning because Manning choked, and could not win the big one (i.e. beat Florida).

Some of those other QB's mentioned.....like Gilliam, Moon, Williams....actually did face racial stereotyping, and it dramatically impacted their careers. But....I would not classify one article citing two scouts (whose names as well as race are unknown) that will have NO impact on RGIII draft position in that same category.

Just my personal opinion.
A winning effort begins with preparation.
Failures are expected by losers, ignored by winners.

Quotes by Joe Gibbs

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:31 pm
Location: D.C.

Postby Red_One43 » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:38 pm

rskin72 wrote:The other one, the character assaination attempt, is just plain dumb as ther is no other evidence I have read or heard to support that conclusion.


There are always scouts that are trying to do character assassinations to potential draftees regardless of color, but what Freeman is trying to tell his readers is certain verbage is being used when talking about black quarterbacks and that that certain verbage is consistent with words used in the past.

Freeman wrote:
"They were too dumb or too inaccurate or were selfish. Buzz words, excuses, balderdash. Just when you think we've entered a post-racial NFL -- or dreamed about a post-racial NFL -- idiocy like this happens."

Rskin72 wrote:
Heck, I remember the draft with Peyton Manning and Ryan Leaf....where many talking heads preferred Leaf over Manning because Manning choked, and could not win the big one (i.e. beat Florida).


It would be great if Cam and RGIII were criticized with this, but they are criticized with this:

"fake smile" and "selfish"

RGIII's character profile has been spotless until these criticisms were released their stories. Where are the last minute character assasinations on Luck? Where was the "fake smile" labels on Ryan Mallett?

Rskin72 wrote:
That said, I disagree with the premise of the argument of Mike Freeman.


You use the argument that Cam was still drafted #1 and that RGIII will still be drafted #2 as your argument that these QBs are not racially stereotyped. Freeman isn't claiming that Cam and RGIII"s draft status' are being disrupted. He is claiming that the racial stereotyping of black QBs is still going on. He offers as evidence scouts offering up nonsensical character assassinations like "fake smile" and "selfish" Let the criticism stick to ability and players' ability and history- not how one perceives how a guy smiles. What is a "fake smile" anyway?

Once again the race card is thrown where none needs to be, IMHO.


So what are the origins of this silly character assassination attempts on RGIII who has had not one negative article on his character? Where are the character assassinations on Luck? Can't find the negatives on Luck? That's the point. You can't find them on RGIII either, so why do some scouts find it OK to make them up on RGIII?

You point out negatives in Cam Newton and he didn't drop - that is Freeman's point - the last minute assasiantions were unfounded. He had a past, but he moved on except the "fake smile." Ryan Mallett had a past and it was current according to the scouts - thus Mallett dropped like a rocket, but no one accused him of having a "fake smile." That's the point - If the criticism has substance then it is fair. If the criticism uses idiotic sayings and not based on the current then there are alterior motives. Is it always race? Maybe. Maybe not. But why dismiss it so fast when we know we live not in a colorblind society?

Freeman wrote:
"First, those scouts compare Griffin only to other black quarterbacks, which is interesting, because I've never felt compelled to compare Larry Bird only to Rick Barry. But for some reason, a significant number of NFL scouts have it stuck in their antiquated heads that black throwers can only be compared to other black throwers, and in this case, RG3 can only be compared to Vick or Newton. Griffin is actually more like a young Aaron Rodgers."

RGIII is not the type of QB that Vick and Cam are, but yet he is constantly compared to them. He does share the type of speed as Vick but they are not the same kind of runner and not the same kind of passer. I see little similarity in RGIII and Cam. Like Freeman I see RGIII more like Aaron Rodgers because of his build and his pass/run decision making. Why did those scouts only compare RGIII to Vick and Cam? Is Freeman's assertion that a significant number of NFL scouts have anitquated minds when it comes to the black QB correct? I don't know, but it is a legit discussion and IMO, should not be so easily dismissed.

Rskin72 wrote:
Some of those other QB's mentioned.....like Gilliam, Moon, Williams....actually did face racial stereotyping, and it dramatically impacted their careers. But....I would not classify one article citing two scouts (whose names as well as race are unknown) that will have NO impact on RGIII draft position in that same category.


You have made an assertion that the above mentioned QBs have actually faced racial stereotyping. Are saying that RGIII and Cam and other black QBs today face no racial stereotyping?
Overtly or subtly?
I noticed that you point out about "NO impact" on the draft. Are you saying that because it won't, or hasn't in Cam's case, impact the draft, then there is no foul?

Rskins72 wrote:
RGIII was going to be drafted no lower than second....so all the character make believe stories in the world is not going to change that. Do you really think that Mike and Bruce are losing sleep over this? Cam had some negatives in his history while he was at Florida.....and his draft status was in flux....but even the negative press he received did not prevent the Panthers from correctly taking him as the first pick in last years draft.


All of this has nothing to do with Freeman's point and that is the last minute character assassinations were unwarranted and wreak of racism of the past by NFL scouts towards black QBs and in Cam's case his number one draft status validates his point when it comes to Nawrocki's rant.

If those scouts motivations are just about noteriety and nothing else then why not attack Luck with unfounded criticism's

To me this question sums up Freeman's point.

Rskin72
Just my personal opinion.


I saw it as a great article that deserves a discussion somewhere and you saw it as playing the race card where is was not needed, but we do agree that the type of criticism of RGIII reportedly said by these scouts was unwarranted.

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 348
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:56 pm

Postby rskin72 » Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:05 am

Good post, Red_One43.......yes, I agree with you that the criticism of RGIII was unwarranted as there is absolutely NOTHING to support the conclusion/opinions of these unnamed "scouts" with regard to the comments on either the character or football prowess of RGIII. Everyone I heard today that addressed this report came down HEAVILY in favor of RGIII. RGIII even handled questions about this with his usual class.

My point basically was that this incident does not warrant throwing the racial flag......nor is it even in the same timezone as what those other black QB's that the author mentioned endured. In those cases....Joe Gilliam, James Harris, Doug Williams....careers, livelihoods, even lives...were adversely impacted due to the color of their skin. A good article on this can be found at

http://www.workers.org/ww/2001/gilliam0118.php

You ask where are similiar comments on Luck, well what about Phil Simms negative comments on the throwing ability of Luck? As I recall, Simms was roundly criticized for his opinions on Luck's ability......same thing that would happen if these unnamed sources were ever named.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdo ... fl,wp11030

This article found at "thepigskinreport.com" kind of sums up my thoughts on the piece by Mr. Freeman...

http://www.thepigskinreport.com/2012/04 ... d-by-race/

I am not trying to make light of racism.....but I just do not draw the same conclusions on the motivation and impact of the scouts comments on RGIII as Mr. Freeman does.
A winning effort begins with preparation.
Failures are expected by losers, ignored by winners.

Quotes by Joe Gibbs

Hog
Posts: 389
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:21 am

Postby the poster » Sat Apr 21, 2012 6:08 am

Mississippiskinsfan2 wrote:Late criticism of RG3 merely the annual trip in the time machine
By Mike Freeman | CBSSports.com National NFL Insider

So here we go again. Another draft, another franchise quarterback who happens to be black, portrayed as fake and selfish. Your turn under the racial microscope, Robert Griffin III. Congratulations!



this article is mostly about the racism the (black) columnist feels compelled to tie to this.

frankly, I couldn't care less. I don't follow football for the outside the lines kinda stuff. frankly, all i care about is the football stuff. (note that I didn't even comment on the original articles claim of rg3 not being nice.....if he is or if he isn't, I couldn't care less).

all I know is you as a redskin fan don't get to play the weak "well we hope he works out" angle. your team has mortgaged it's future and he must become a top flight qb capable of winning super bowls. anything less is a failure. I understand what "highlight" videos are....they are a collection of the prettiest plays.....it's just......well , come august it'll be fun to watch him play because there's a lot more outside of those videos that needs to be proven before you know that your team's big gamble will work.

Hog
Posts: 389
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:21 am

Postby the poster » Sat Apr 21, 2012 6:22 am

I guess Von miller is racist too. he must be like me and have a problem with skinny qbs who likely won't last....

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8 ... line_stack

Hog
Online
User avatar
Posts: 1882
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:36 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Postby emoses14 » Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:11 am

the poster wrote:
this article is mostly about the racism the (black) columnist feels compelled to tie to this.


Wait, wait, wait, OMG u guys, I've heard this one before. Is this the old "racism is over/we live in a post racist america and the only reason we still talk about it is because those silly blacks keep pointing it out when their little feelings get hurt because ONLY THEY THINK others are being racist, because they're the real racists who keep prosecuting poor (usually) white people and playing the race card. . ."?

"feels compelled to tie to this" /SMH. No wonder.

As for the football aspects of this, the original criticism of RG3 is rightly being completely flamed because it simply does not logically follow in today's overly free informational flowing world that all of this would be rooted in any sort of fact, anecdote, or reality and ONLY NOW be coming to the fore, from 2 unnamed scouts, immediately in the wake of the colts confirming what everyone's known for months, from a guy whose only journalistic reputation is to hunt the most controversial stuff for page hits.

This doesn't pass the smell test, never mind the laugh out loud test. Freeman's just providing another example of the possible motivation behind the "source." Buy it if you like, don't if you won't.
I know he got a pretty good zip on the ball. He has a quick release. . . once I seen a coupla' throws, I was just like 'Yeah, he's that dude.'"

-Santana Moss on Our QB

Hog
Online
User avatar
Posts: 1882
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:36 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Postby emoses14 » Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:20 am

the poster wrote:I guess Von miller is racist too. he must be like me and have a problem with skinny qbs who likely won't last....

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8 ... line_stack


Nope. Just a player from a different texas school than RG3, whose quarterback just so happens to be the ubiquitous third wheel this year. He's more sticking up for his guy and flaming a competitor (especially being a defensive guy talking about a qb he played against over a year ago).

Again, nothing to see here, moving on.
I know he got a pretty good zip on the ball. He has a quick release. . . once I seen a coupla' throws, I was just like 'Yeah, he's that dude.'"

-Santana Moss on Our QB

Return to Hog Wash - Washington Redskins Football