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Chris Luva Luva
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Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 17794
Location: AJT
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 9:44 am Post subject: Where can RGIII improve? |
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| I've been watching as much video of RGIII as I can lately. And for those of you who have been scouting via YouTube like me, what do you discern to be RGIII's weaknesses? Where do you think he'll struggle? What type of system wrinkles will be thrown in to protect those weaknesses as he develops? |
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Countertrey
the 'mudge
Joined: 09 Jan 2004
Posts: 12767
Location: Curmudgeon Corner, Maine
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:45 am Post subject: |
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The primary question is, "how does he respond to NFL speed" In every interview I have seen, this is the first thing that slaps rooks in the face. Offenses are faster. Defenses are faster. Schemes are more complex. Reads and responses can be multi-faceted.
Can he get past that? I have no doubt. The question is, how fast can he get faster?
This was something that Jason Campbell was never able to overcome. The game just never "slowed down" for him. |
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Chris Luva Luva
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Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 17794
Location: AJT
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:58 am Post subject: |
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I really want to see what his pocket awareness is like.
Also, he gets flung around a lot, he seems a bit light in the butt. |
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rskin72
Hog
Joined: 11 Mar 2012
Posts: 283
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:16 am Post subject: |
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I will fess up to not seeing a huge amount of video on RGIII (or Luck for that matter) but the thing that concerns me is how quick/will he develop into a field general like a Manning or a Brady.....or will he become a QB with blazing speed, strong and accurate arm, but cannot read/diagnose defenses at the line of scrimmage therefore makes bad decisions in the pocket.
Look at Vick....talented QB, but apparently up until last season, never took the time to study/learn defenses.
To me, if RGIII is going to become that special QB....he will need to develop into that field general. Luck had that opportunity in the Stanford system, and that is a large reason why most thought that Luck was the more complete/finished QB between the two. RGIII did not play in that type of system. Can he adapt? He is certainly smart enough, and apparently motivated.....but it won't happen overnight. |
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1niksder
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Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Posts: 16571
Location: If I knew ... it would explain a lot but I've seen Homerville on a map, that wasn't helpful at all
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HarleyHog
Hog
Joined: 06 Sep 2009
Posts: 386
Location: Vallejo, California
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:38 am Post subject: |
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I Suspect that RGII and Sgt Mom Instilled the military mindset as a primal drive. RGIII will be the field general we need. He will study. He will prepare. He will do after-action review and find ways to improve regardless of outcome. He will lead by example.
I have seen precious little footage of his play, but I sure liked what I saw. While he has been OUTSTANDING so far, at the NFL level every aspect of his game will need to improve if he is to be OUTSTANDING moving forward. Pocket presence is by biggest concern, although not TOO concerned, but we face very tough sackmasters 6 games per year at a minimum.
I don't see any way that RGIII (2.0) doesnt prove an upgrade over RGIII (1.0, or perhaps 0.0?) |
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1niksder
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Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Posts: 16571
Location: If I knew ... it would explain a lot but I've seen Homerville on a map, that wasn't helpful at all
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The Hogster
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Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 6999
Location: Washington D.C.
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| For a guy of his mobility, he's taken a lot of sacks. If I were to nit pick a weakness, it would be that he could use his athleticism and run a bit more when the play isn't there. Again, nit picking. |
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Countertrey
the 'mudge
Joined: 09 Jan 2004
Posts: 12767
Location: Curmudgeon Corner, Maine
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| The Hogster wrote: | | For a guy of his mobility, he's taken a lot of sacks. If I were to nit pick a weakness, it would be that he could use his athleticism and run a bit more when the play isn't there. Again, nit picking. |
Shanahan has had a lot of experience coaching up mobile quarterbacks who have good arms and solid situational awareness (Steve Young, John Elway, Jay Cutler, Jake Plummer). I don't believe he has ever had one quite this elusive or fast, with soooo many other outstanding measurables AND intangibles... I'm looking forward to seeing this product at the beginning of his 3rd season... should be very scarey for D Coords... |
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Chris Luva Luva
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Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 17794
Location: AJT
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| The Hogster wrote: | | For a guy of his mobility, he's taken a lot of sacks. If I were to nit pick a weakness, it would be that he could use his athleticism and run a bit more when the play isn't there. Again, nit picking. |
I think this goes back to what Polian recently said in regards to what type of a runner he is... Track vs Football.
Also, some of those sacks kind of made me wonder about his pocket awareness. But he does tend to step up in the pocket to avoid the edge rushers. |
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emoses14
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Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 1504
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not sure that its his biggest weakness or anything, but what I'm most worried about with him are his progression reads. BUT I think his vision of the field exhibited when a play breaks down or needs saving is tremendous, so I can't see it being a difficult issue, but I think the "speed of the game" rookie qb issue CT referred to probably most often manifests in progressions.
Frankly, I think where we're going to be pleasantly surprised is how quickly this guy develops. I see him as one of those "makes a mistake once" kind of guys. |
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emoses14
Hog
Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 1504
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:12 pm Post subject: Re: Where can RGIII improve? |
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| Chris Luva Luva wrote: | | I've been watching as much video of RGIII as I can lately. And for those of you who have been scouting via YouTube like me, what do you discern to be RGIII's weaknesses? Where do you think he'll struggle? What type of system wrinkles will be thrown in to protect those weaknesses as he develops? |
Great post, by the way. Seriously. |
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Red_One43
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Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 4606
Location: D.C.
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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This is and isn't my biggest concern with RGIII: Kyle!!!
He is: Kyle wants the offense to be run exactly the way he wants it to be run. Can RGIII work with the seemingly rigid Kyle? Will there be room for any RGIII "feel" for the game?
He isn't: Look what Kyle's offense did for Grossman (The fact that Grossman couldn't stop turning the ball over is not the fault of the offensive scheme). Look what it did for Shaub. T.J. Yates.
The transition to the pro offense - several spread QBs have made it and a QB as highly rated by the scouts to include Mayock should make that transition easily. Just like Dalton.
Grossman says with repetitions in practice the repetitions come naturally, so I am not worried about rookie mistakes. They will come, but I am hoping that this offense will minimize them because the scheme will set RGIII up for success.
| Quote: | “During the course of a regular game, Kyle Shanahan wants you to run the offense exactly how he wants it, down to the amount of hitches you take to go through your progressions,” Grossman told Zig Fracassi and Solomon Wilcots, per Steinberg. “And if you really study that and rep that in practice, then it becomes a lot easier during the game. You’re not thinking as much as your body just goes through the progressions. That’s some of the things that’s really helped me start the second half of my career, and I feel like I’m a much better quarterback because of that.”
Think about that one. Kyle Shanahan wants the quarterback “to run the offense exactly how he wants it, down to the amount of hitches you take to go through your progressions.” |
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/06/07/kyle-shanahan-emerges-as-a-full-blown-control-freak/ |
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Hooligan
Hog
Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 882
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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From what I've seen on Griffin, he senses pressure and moves accordingly in the pocket, or slides out of the pocket, while keeping his eyes downfield. I think that'll translate well into the NFL.
On picking up the speed of the game: he has all the physical tools, the intelligence, and most importantly the drive and desire to excel at the QB position. Didn't sit in a chair and throw passes to his father while rehabbing a knee injury? He'll do whatever he has to do to run the offense and lead the team successfully. I'm no scout, but I'm not really worried. |
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CanesSkins26
Canes Skin
Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 6870
Location: Alexandria, VA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:09 am Post subject: |
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This is from December, but mentions some areas he can improve on...
| Quote: | One college scout assigned to the Big 12 I spoke to was less enthusiastic about Griffin's prospects than the above execs, but conceded that he's one that some will more than likely fall for over his overwhelming physical gifts.
"That offense made things simple on him," said the scout. "Because he's such a running threat, he saw soft coverage, you didn't see defensive ends bending the corner to get him. They played him different to keep him in the pocket, and as a result, he got passing lanes he may not get in the pros. It's a problem, because he's got average-to-below-average size. The Vick comparison is there, because you figure he'll miss games (due to injury), but you can't tell him not to run, because that's what makes him special."
The scout continued that, "There's gonna be a significant development period. Him moreso than anyone. You can't fault him for what they didn't ask him to do. I think he's capable of it. But it's natural as a talent evaluator to want to see it."
Brooks: The book on Barkley
Matt Barkley announced Thursday he will return to USC for his senior season. Bucky Brooks says the young QB has a few skills to hone. More ...
The positives? Griffin is more athletic and has a better arm than Luck or Barkley. Also, Griffin did complete 72.4 percent of his passes this year. The college scout said part of that is that "roughly 75 percent" of his throws went no further than 7 or 8 yards past the line of scrimmage, but Griffin also exhibited deep accuracy uncommon for a spread quarterback in limited chances to show it.
Beyond Baylor's offensive structure, other negatives you get from these evaluators start with Griffin taking hits that aren't necessary. "He's not as big as Cam (Newton) and takes more hits than he should. You wonder if he's trying to be a tough guy ... because he doesn't always play smart," said the first exec.
On the flip side, he does run with the purpose of throwing, but his accuracy was rarely tested with tight-fitting throws. There were also third-down inconsistencies that raise red flags. "If it's third-and-6, Barkley will get it more than RG3 does," said the second exec. "When I look at RG3, I see a lot of big plays, but a lot of third downs he didn't get too."
Add it all up and you have a fascinating player. Where one of the execs said Luck's upside is that of a more athletic Peyton Manning, and Barkley's ideal is to wind up being a shorter, more compact Troy Aikman, all three of the aforementioned guys compared Griffin to Randall Cunningham. Not bad.
"He makes some throws that blow your mind," the first exec said. "With Luck, you're getting a safe pick. With Barkley, you're getting a safe pick. Maybe they won't win world championships, but they'll be plenty good no matter what, in my mind. There's more of a risk factor with Griffin. But if you hit on him, you've got a chance to have a world-championship-making player." |
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8254ff24/article/with-barkley-now-out-of-picture-attention-turns-to-griffin |
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