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Deadskins
JSPB22
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
Posts: 14695
Location: Location, LOCATION!
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| Countertrey wrote: | CLL said:
| Quote: | | If RGIII can be decisive in his throws and judicious with his runs, he's gonna make this line look really good. |
This... yeah... this. |
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UK Skins Fan
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Joined: 02 Mar 2005
Posts: 4437
Location: Somewhere, out there.
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| Chris Luva Luva wrote: | | You didn't have to read the article to know that this line is vastly improved over what it has been. This line played great before it was plagued with injury. In addition, after the rookies were inserted and reshuffled, they eventually gelled and played well the last couple of games. |
To be fair, I think if you were playing right guard and I was at left tackle Chris, the line would still be better than it was a couple of years ago!
Another point: the offensive line could surely be helped out by the playcalling? A commitment to the running game, especially when it's going well, would be a help. It makes me want to hurl when I listen to the Redskins march down the field by running the ball, only to have it screwed up by Kyle's huge brain trying to out-think the opposition, rather than let his offensive line beat them, just as they were doing before they got inside the 20.
And when it comes to passing, of course, having a quarterback who throws it on time, and to the right place, would be huge. I think this line is going to make it a point of personal pride to keep RGIII upright. If his charisma in the huddle is anything like what he brings to the press room, then these linemen are going to want to run through walls for him. Would YOU do that for Rex?! |
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Chris Luva Luva
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Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 17794
Location: AJT
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| UK Skins Fan wrote: |
Another point: the offensive line could surely be helped out by the playcalling? |
That's the case on any/every team. I have no gripe with the play calling. Kyle isn't out there throwing interceptions.
| UK Skins Fan wrote: | | A commitment to the running game, especially when it's going well, would be a help. |
There is a commitment to the run, but you can't be 1 dimensional. First and foremost, this is a passing leauge. Secondly, you have to keep defenses honest. When you're not scoring points, you can't keep running the rock in the 4th QTR. You are forced to play catch up.
People make it seem as if Kyle is missing easy play calls, and that a simple run between the tackles would solve all of our offensive woes. Do you think that defenses are stacking against the run? Do you think that opposing DC's don't recognize our midget WR's? Do you think that they don't recognize Rex and Beck at QB?
Of course they do, so you gotta take what the defense gives you. The problem was the QB. Every team last year played the odd's of "Good Rex vs Bad Rex"... When good Rex showed up, we won... When bad Rex showed up, they won the bet.
| UK Skins Fan wrote: | | It makes me want to hurl when I listen to the Redskins march down the field by running the ball, only to have it screwed up by Kyle's huge brain trying to out-think the opposition, rather than let his offensive line beat them, just as they were doing before they got inside the 20. |
But you can't compare the offense between the 20's to the offense in the redzone. The defense is compacted, you're out of real estate. The defensive can more easily defend both the run and pass. And as I said before, they're gonna stop the run because the odds are, Rex gets sacked or throws a pick. Who in our WR corps demanded attention last year? Davis. That's one guy.
| UK Skins Fan wrote: | | And when it comes to passing, of course, having a quarterback who throws it on time, and to the right place, would be huge. |
Huge??? It's EVERYTHING. For the Colts, it was the difference between 13 wins and 1 win for an entire season.
| UK Skins Fan wrote: | | I think this line is going to make it a point of personal pride to keep RGIII upright. |
I don't see it that way. That's too rainbowy and hugs & kisses for me. Those guys are come out to play and do their job, just like they did last year. IF RGIII can get the ball out of his hands, they'll all look good.
| UK Skins Fan wrote: | | If his charisma in the huddle is anything like what he brings to the press room, then these linemen are going to want to run through walls for him. Would YOU do that for Rex?! |
A good QB makes his linemen look good. That charisma wont mean jack if he's taking sacks, making bad reads and patting the ball too much. That smile aint gonna get the ball out on time. If he's producing in conjunctino with that charisma, then I see your scenario playing out. |
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mastdark81
Hog
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 371
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| Chris Luva Luva wrote: | | mastdark81 wrote: | | We are better than what we think but NOT good enough to match up with COLE,BABIN,JENKINS, WARE, RATLIFF, OSI, PIERREPAUL, TUCK...twice a season. Until we can match up against the lines fairly then we will always be at the bottom. Outside of Trent Williams we dont have any one thats in the top 15 at their position on the oline...we have seen the games...those stats dont say nothing to me BC we were ineffective running the ball in those games Kory played |
Maybe they can match up against them if they had a competent QB behind them.
Did Indy's OL just all of a sudden go from top tier to worst in the league? No. There was a drop in QB talent. We've never dropped cus we haven't gotten high up enough. We'll see just how good/bad/promising our line is with RGIII. |
Colts downfall had more to do with the team organization/coaching then just quarterback. When Indy was successful and won their SuperBowl Peyton had Tarik Glenn, Jeff Saturday two all pro's...potential hall of famers.
This is not a playoff line. We need an interior all-pro. Couldn't get an inch with this line if we really needed it in crunch time, shoot we can't even stop guys from blocking our field goals!! |
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mastdark81
Hog
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 371
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 11:33 am Post subject: |
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Lets make a starting 5 of just NFC East olineman and how many Redskins would you put in that starting 5?
Riiiiiight. Thats why we last in the division each year. |
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Chris Luva Luva
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Joined: 28 Jul 2003
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Location: AJT
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 11:39 am Post subject: |
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| mastdark81 wrote: | | Colts downfall had more to do with the team organization/coaching then just quarterback. When Indy was successful and won their SuperBowl Peyton had Tarik Glenn, Jeff Saturday two all pro's...potential hall of famers. |
I can't agree with that at all. They won 10 games in the previous season with the same exact squad. Subtract Peyton Manning, they win 2 games in 2011. I'm not discussing Superbowls, we're discussing the impact that a competent QB has in making the o-line look better than it is, or having a bad QB make it look worse than it is.
| mastdark81 wrote: | | This is not a playoff line. We need an interior all-pro. Couldn't get an inch with this line if we really needed it in crunch time, shoot we can't even stop guys from blocking our field goals!! |
1. We don't know how good/bad they are yet.
2. I find it even more difficult to accept your stance because it's not even accurate. http://www.thehogs.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=38059
Read that thread. Most of the blocks were due to defensive linemen...
Our starting OL took A LOT of injuries last year. They played well towards the end, if you can be unbiased.
| mastdark81 wrote: | Lets make a starting 5 of just NFC East olineman and how many Redskins would you put in that starting 5?
Riiiiiight. Thats why we last in the division each year. |
Different systems, different requirements. Your point is moot and almost as baseless as the one I disproved above.
How many NFCE teams run the Mike ZBS? None.
I bet if we released some of our OL bodies, the Texans would scoop 1 or 2 of them up. Heck, they just snatched up John Beck. ZBS to ZBS, we have quality players, let's be real. |
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SkinsJock
08 Champ
Joined: 24 Feb 2004
Posts: 11504
Location: New England
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| mastdark81 wrote: | Lets make a starting 5 of just NFC East O lineman and how many Redskins would you put in that starting 5?
Riiiiiight. That's why we last in the division each year. |
I don't agree with the basic thought here
the most important thing is for the players to play together
the O line helps the QB and the QB helps the O line - these go hand in hand
having great offensive linemen is not nearly as important as having good offensive linemen that play better together
there is no doubt that the other 3 NFC East teams' defensive lines will play well but ...
this Redskins offense will be better because of better play from the QB and the whole offense should be improved
nothing is certain but this offense and this franchise look to be better this coming season than we were last season
last season we beat the giants twice  |
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Chris Luva Luva
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Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 17794
Location: AJT
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| SkinsJock wrote: | | the most important thing is for the players to play together |
And within the system that they're being hand-picked for. You can't compare the requirements or abilities of OL for ZBS to those of a power run team... |
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skinsfan#33
#33
Joined: 24 Jul 2004
Posts: 3875
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Chris Luva Luva wrote: | uote]
More-so than the W/L record, it's gonna be the QB play that elevates our OL ranking. Putting Curtis Painter behind the same line as Peyton Manning did what for Curtis? Nothing. Because it wasn't the offensive line, it was the QB.
Big Ben, he has a terrible offensive line, but his play elevates him.
GreenBay, really, how good is that offensive line? Is it Aaron or is it the line? Question for you. If you have the choice between Rodgers or his line, you'd pick Rodgers right? Of course you would.
If RGIII can be decisive in his throws and judicious with his runs, he's gonna make this line look really good. |
I'm sorry, I've known for years that Indy's OL was garbage and it was Manning that made them look adequate.
Now for Big Ben. I disagree, I think it is Ben that makes the Pburge ol look as bad as it does. He takes a tuon of hits and sacks that he doesn't need to. True, his habit of holding on to the ball is the primary reason he gets hit so much.
A Rogers was one of the most sacked QBs until he started getting rid of the ball.
Rex actually avoided a lot of sacks last year. Not by moving around, buy by getting rid of the ball (sometimes to our guy and someone to theirs). He didn't take many sacks but he sure took a lot of hits!
Our ol was one of the worst in the NFL I'm giving up hits. A high sack total reflects almost as much on the QB as it does on the OL, but a high hit number reflects more so on the OL.
Don't expect RG3 to improve to improve matters fir the OL. He had a habit (like Big Ben) of holding on to the ball too much. He is a rookie QB and he will probably run more next year than other QBs. All three of those things will lead this team to give up more sacks than it did last year. But watch the hit total. Of to number of QB hits goes down to an acceptable level then maybe the OL is improving.
Right now it is a Gods awful unit, one of the worst on the league in giving up QB hits. |
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SkinsJock
08 Champ
Joined: 24 Feb 2004
Posts: 11504
Location: New England
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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^^ you are in for a surprise
this offensive line and this offense are going to be a lot quicker and more effective this season |
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Chris Luva Luva
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Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 17794
Location: AJT
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| skinsfan#33 wrote: | I'm sorry, I've known for years that Indy's OL was garbage and it was Manning that made them look adequate.
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That was my point...
But I also stand by my point that IF RGIII is decisive and can get the ball out, he'll make the o-line look better than it is. |
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the poster
Hog
Joined: 02 Mar 2012
Posts: 389
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| SkinsJock wrote: |
nothing is certain but this offense and this franchise look to be better this coming season than we were last season |
wow. God for Bid they actually get better one time in the decade. Cue the band.
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last season we beat the giants twice |
And did absolutely nothing else of note for the entire rest of the season. Few clubs accomplished less, actually. |
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SkinsJock
08 Champ
Joined: 24 Feb 2004
Posts: 11504
Location: New England
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| skinsfan#33 wrote: | | .. I've known for years that Indy's OL was garbage and it was Manning that made them look adequate. |
so - QB's can make a difference?
| Quote: | | Don't expect RG3 to improve matters for the OL. |
I do
| Quote: | | He had a habit (like Big Ben) of holding on to the ball too much. He is a rookie QB and he will probably run more next year than other QBs. All three of those things will lead this team to give up more sacks than it did last year. |
1 - he will be prepared
2 - so he's a rookie - so was Cam last year - what's the point
3 - he will use his speed but he's not a running QB
| Quote: | | Right now it is a Gods awful unit, one of the worst on the league in giving up QB hits. |
I don't agree - it's not great but it is getting better - the ZBS and Mike will help him a lot |
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UK Skins Fan
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Joined: 02 Mar 2005
Posts: 4437
Location: Somewhere, out there.
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Chris Luva Luva wrote: | | UK Skins Fan wrote: |
Another point: the offensive line could surely be helped out by the playcalling? |
That's the case on any/every team. I have no gripe with the play calling. Kyle isn't out there throwing interceptions.
| UK Skins Fan wrote: | | A commitment to the running game, especially when it's going well, would be a help. |
There is a commitment to the run, but you can't be 1 dimensional. First and foremost, this is a passing leauge. Secondly, you have to keep defenses honest. When you're not scoring points, you can't keep running the rock in the 4th QTR. You are forced to play catch up.
People make it seem as if Kyle is missing easy play calls, and that a simple run between the tackles would solve all of our offensive woes. Do you think that defenses are stacking against the run? Do you think that opposing DC's don't recognize our midget WR's? Do you think that they don't recognize Rex and Beck at QB?
Of course they do, so you gotta take what the defense gives you. The problem was the QB. Every team last year played the odd's of "Good Rex vs Bad Rex"... When good Rex showed up, we won... When bad Rex showed up, they won the bet.
| UK Skins Fan wrote: | | It makes me want to hurl when I listen to the Redskins march down the field by running the ball, only to have it screwed up by Kyle's huge brain trying to out-think the opposition, rather than let his offensive line beat them, just as they were doing before they got inside the 20. |
But you can't compare the offense between the 20's to the offense in the redzone. The defense is compacted, you're out of real estate. The defensive can more easily defend both the run and pass. And as I said before, they're gonna stop the run because the odds are, Rex gets sacked or throws a pick. Who in our WR corps demanded attention last year? Davis. That's one guy.
| UK Skins Fan wrote: | | And when it comes to passing, of course, having a quarterback who throws it on time, and to the right place, would be huge. |
Huge??? It's EVERYTHING. For the Colts, it was the difference between 13 wins and 1 win for an entire season.
| UK Skins Fan wrote: | | I think this line is going to make it a point of personal pride to keep RGIII upright. |
I don't see it that way. That's too rainbowy and hugs & kisses for me. Those guys are come out to play and do their job, just like they did last year. IF RGIII can get the ball out of his hands, they'll all look good.
| UK Skins Fan wrote: | | If his charisma in the huddle is anything like what he brings to the press room, then these linemen are going to want to run through walls for him. Would YOU do that for Rex?! |
A good QB makes his linemen look good. That charisma wont mean jack if he's taking sacks, making bad reads and patting the ball too much. That smile aint gonna get the ball out on time. If he's producing in conjunctino with that charisma, then I see your scenario playing out. |
Well, I stand corrected on every point, I must say. I bow down before you sir |
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Deadskins
JSPB22
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
Posts: 14695
Location: Location, LOCATION!
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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You French surrender too easily.  |
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